Help With Ugly Duckling Post 64 Winchester 94 30-30 with RCBS 30-180 FN???

[JesterGrin_1]

A Few might remember this thread not long ago http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?234919-1972-Winchester-30-30-Value

About going nuts and getting a BEAT UP Post 64 Winchester 94 30-30. Well as mentioned in the thread I dismantled it and by gosh cleaned it thoroughly and it sure did need it lol. But also as mentioned the bore is nice as well as the working parts of the Rifle.

And so it was recommended that I get an RCBS 30-180 FN mold of which Sweetpea here on the forum was good enough to sell me one and just received it in my hands today. So while I am waiting on a few things like Dies I was wondering about my powders that I have on hand and if they would work well in the 30-30 with the RCBS 30-180 FN?

My Powders on hand are.
Reloader 15
IMR-3031
IMR-4350
H-322
RamShot TAC
2400 Limited Supply
Unique Limited Supply
TiteGroup

I mention Limited Supply on a couple due to the problems of finding more powder.


Casting Lead for RCBS 30-180 FN. The Lead I have on hand is Pure and Straight Lino. Of which I usually mix 3 or 4 Pure to 1 Lino and Water Drop. But for this 30-30 RCBS 30-180 FN should I cast them of Straight Lino and Water Drop?



Thank You for any Help. :)

[Wayne Smith]

Do you not have a manual? Start with the 3031 and look up a load. If you have plenty it is a perfect powder for the 30-30.

[Pb2au]

You really don't need to water drop, and for that matter, straight lino. Remember, you are going to cruising in the 1600-2000 FPS range I suspect.
I use air cooled WW alloy, so if with what you have on hand you can approximate that you should be good to go.
As for powder, I use 2400 for general range duty. I have also used H335 (I know it is not on your list) to good effect as well. The wife commandeered the rifle about two years ago, so I don't get to shoot it much, just feed it. :D
I have not used it, but there is many that use the IMR-3031 for cast loads in the 30-30. Do some digging and see what you can come up with.
The 30-30 and cast go together like bread and butter, you will have a good time.

[CastingFool]

+1 on the 3031. I use it on my 30-06 and .308 loads, too.

[starmac]

Out of your list 3031 is where I would start, and it is hard to go wrong with it. The only problem I have had with 3031 is, I haven't seen any on the shelf here for at least 2 years. lol

The powder that has started coming in in this area, and actually staying on the shelf for more than 24 hours is leverrevelution. Check out Larrys test with it and cast in this section, that is if you guys are getting any of it down there.

[JesterGrin_1]

The only thing I see on the shelf down here is for the 50 BMG lol. Or if there is anything else they are asking stupid prices for.

I used to purchase powder and primers from Powder Valley but it has probably been about 2 years since they have had anything to speak of. It sure looks like they are closing there doors as they do not really have any apparel either in stock.

But honestly with what they are now asking for reloading components I feel I am pretty well covered and do not really need to purchase more of anything except maybe some Federal LRP and Federal LRMP if they ever come back on the market for a decent price.

[JesterGrin_1]

Do you not have a manual? Start with the 3031 and look up a load. If you have plenty it is a perfect powder for the 30-30.

Of Course I have a Few Manuals. But not all good information is in Manuals and Books as individuals personal experience is far better information.

If everyone thought that Manuals and Books were the best information then there would be no need for a Good Forum such as this as the only reply would be Look the information up in a Manual or a Book. :)

[starmac]

Well in that case, if you have plenty of 3031, I would start making a dent in it.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well in that case, if you have plenty of 3031, I would start making a dent in it.

I was thinking IMR-3031 and H-322. I know the IMR-3031 is the old standby from what I understand.

But has anyone used H-322? As I had pretty good luck with it in 38-55 and Fantastic luck with it in the 45-70 :).

Thank You so much for the reply.

[runfiverun]

try 24 grs of the h-322.
I use 24.5 grs of accurates' 2230 and have gone up to 27 grs.
I'd bet your 4-1 water dropped will do the trick if you hit @ 300 on the nose and 310 on the body.
I use the rcbs 30-150 and just bumped the alloy around until I had light engraving on the nose when chambered.
3 parts clip on ww's to one part stick on's seemed to do just fine.
as it always does.
another load I use a lot of is 34 grs of 4831 it seems to do quite well when the case is full enough for the boolit to touch the powder when seated. 36 grs will fit too with just a little more compression.
I get right at 1800 fps from my 20" rifle with 34 grs.

[JesterGrin_1]

I found this.http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDataview.php?ReferenceNumber=1081

Reference Number
1081
Cartridge
30-30 Winchester
Bullet Wt
187
Bullet
RCBS 30-180-FN 187gr
Powder
Hodgdon H322
Start Charge
21
Max Charge
25
Max Velocity
1879
OAL
0
Pressure
Primer
CCI 200

On a side note I was a bit puzzled to find 30-30 Winchester loads with H-110 and W-296? http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=1081

[w30wcf]

JesterGrin 1,
Since the 180 Rcbs when seated will be below the case neck, you might find that a capacity load of the slower burning 4350 might give better results. I found that to be the case with my rifle although I am using H414 which has a similar burning rate to 4350.

Velocity runs right around 2000 fps in my '94.

I would suggest a 50/50 blend of lead/Lino air cooled.

w30wcf

[runfiverun]

I have tried H-110 in a couple of cases like the 30-06 and was super nervous doing it.
the rounds shot pretty well though, I tried some aa-1680 and it done a little better.

the 30-30 seems to like just about anything you can get in the case and maintain a velocity above 1200 and below 2450 fps.
I like powder speeds in between 1680 and about 4064 the best though.

the 4831 load come about because I got some 'unknown' mil-surp stuff that was in the 4831 burn rate area and gave it a go, it just plain worked [quiet and powerful and accurate] so I made it a standard load for my rifle.

[TXGunNut]

Too bad you don't have more 2400 but 3031 is probably a better powder. My 30-30 likes ACWW and a little dab of 2400; cheap and easy, just like my favorite women. ;-)
Did you order the RCBS Cowboy dies?

[JesterGrin_1]

Did you order the RCBS Cowboy dies?

Nope I purchased the Lee 30-30 3 Die Set and got a replacement Lee EZ X Expander-Decapping Rod 7.62x39mm Russian (.310 Dia) To simply replace the factory Lee 30-30 Decapping rod with the larger .310 Diameter Decapping rod for use with Cast Boolits and use the Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die.

[TXGunNut]

Nope I purchased the Lee 30-30 3 Die Set and got a replacement Lee EZ X Expander-Decapping Rod 7.62x39mm Russian (.310 Dia) To simply replace the factory Lee 30-30 Decapping rod with the larger .310 Diameter Decapping rod for use with Cast Boolits and use the Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die.

That should work, may work the brass in the neck a bit more if it sizes it down to "normal" dimensions before the expander fixes things but 30-30 brass isn't too hard to find if you know where to look. I ordered a "replacement" 30-30 Cowboy expander so that I could use the expander body from my 32WS. Much less $ than a Lyman or custom expander and they work fine in the Lyman body as well.

[JesterGrin_1]

I was thinking that if the Die does squeeze the neck down a bit much then can I not hone out the die itself to fix that type of situation?



That should work, may work the brass in the neck a bit more if it sizes it down to "normal" dimensions before the expander fixes things but 30-30 brass isn't too hard to find if you know where to look. I ordered a "replacement" 30-30 Cowboy expander so that I could use the expander body from my 32WS. Much less $ than a Lyman or custom expander and they work fine in the Lyman body as well.

[TXGunNut]

I don't know, still using the standard RCBS die for sizing the 30-30 and no worries yet. I've considered getting a Cowboy sizing die, just haven't done it yet. I've noticed the Cowboy die (32WS) doesn't seem to size the neck down much but that's comparing cases fired in two different rifles and haven't done a chamber cast on either. My 32-20 Cowboy set is very enjoyable to use as well, like the 32WS set it seems to be very CB friendly.

[9w1911]

I love how it looks I would not change that, Id fix any issue I had with the action etc

[Le Loup Solitaire]

In my 30-30's/94's I have always used Lyman 311291 with 3031. I started with 25 grains with the intention of going to 30 grains which is about max according to one of Lyman's manuals. In the spread of 25-30 grains I found that the best accuracy/grouping was at 27 grains so that is what I stuck with. LLS

[pls1911]

Stretch your lino where you can
Mix 50/50 or 70/30 pure:Lino, and keep your velocity to around 1900.
If you need harder, simply heat treat at 450 for an hour and quench in ice water.
This should result in a mid 20s hardness 24 hours after the process.
Reloader 7 at 25-26 grains is my go to 30/30 load, 160 through 185 grain cast bullets.

[OverMax]

3031 and 2400 are {good choice} powders. I myself like AA-2230. But it isn't on your available list so I guess it's moot information.

[TXGunNut]

Have you shot that thing yet? Casting and loading for the 30-30 is fun but hardly as exciting as getting the old girl into action again.

[JesterGrin_1]

Actually Sadly No I have not. I just got the things I needed in from Midway of which was the Lee 3 Die set and the 7.62x39 .310 Expander along with a Lee Universal Flaring Die. And thought I would try out that new Fangled Lee Deluxe Quick Trim and Die. And I have to say thus far after only 50 cases I like it.

The main reason is I did not know that Lyman nor Lee handles will Not fit my RCBS 30-180 FN mold DARN IT. If I knew I would have ordered a set with my other items. :(. It was a real downer to fire up my Old RCBS Pro Melt and then remove a set of handles from something else to put the RCBS mold on but no joy. So this weekend I may take a file and grinder to one of my Lee Handles to make them fit. Now I just need to do a bit more research to find out what is needed to make the Lee Handles work other than to thin them down a bit?

[TXGunNut]

The main reason is I did not know that Lyman nor Lee handles will Not fit my RCBS 30-180 FN mold DARN IT. If I knew I would have ordered a set with my other items. . It was a real downer to fire up my Old RCBS Pro Melt and then remove a set of handles from something else to put the RCBS mold on but no joy. So this weekend I may take a file and grinder to one of my Lee Handles to make them fit. Now I just need to do a bit more research to find out what is needed to make the Lee Handles work other than to thin them down a bit? -JesterGrin 1

Was researching that very subject earlier today, ordering Lee handles for all my Lyman moulds. From what I read a little thinning is all that's needed to make Lee handles fit RCBS moulds. I'm all done moving my Lyman handles from mould to mould, I thought I preferred the Lyman handles on Lyman moulds but can't figure out why. I'm not going to pay $36 for a set of handles when a $13 set will do. I usually buy a few extra Lee handles when they're on sale but they haven't been on sale for awhile, even then it's only a dollar or so off.

[pls1911]

Tx,
I'm in Ft Worth and have modified my Lyman, RCBS, and SAECO handles the interchange between molds. SAECO handles are definitely the best quality on the market

[JesterGrin_1]

Well long story short my RCBS 30-180 FN Casts Undersize and RCBS was closed today due to holiday. So I will have to wait till Monday to contact them.

But I did place an order Today for my Eyes lol. The Pearsons Winchester 94 No Drill scope mount. http://www.mod94scoperail.com/index.html

That way I can mount a Scout Scope set up on there for load work up and maybe down the road my Ultra Dot Match Dot.

[TXGunNut]

Never seen a scope mount quite like that, might just work.

[starmac]

We had to tell you we liked that rifle the USED way it looked, but nooo you are bound and determined to make an ugly duckling out of it. lol

[JesterGrin_1]

We had to tell you we liked that rifle the USED way it looked, but nooo you are bound and determined to make an ugly duckling out of it. lol

Oh it has not changed except I cleaned it lol. No Re-Blue No Wood Re-Stain nothing except I have to be able to see the darn target lol.

[jlchucker]

3031 and Winchester 748 are my favorite powders for 30-30. There's lots of published loading data for these powders.

[starmac]

I hear you. I had my old 94 out last week, and the sights are getting very hard to see, near impossible. I am going to try some new glasses, maybe even fiber optics (at least the front one), but will pass it on to one of the kids before I scope it. Both my old M99 and M14 wears scopes, I would have had a hard time drilling them, but am glad that somebody did before I picked them up. lol

[jh45gun]

I use 17 grains of 2400 in my Post 94 made in 94 and it likes that load very accurate for me. As far as optics go I have a green dot sight mounted scout style with a mount I came up with that was what Leupold did years ago using the rear dove tail and a hole drilled in the front forearm band. Only thing I would have to replace to put it back to original is a replacement band and I would not even do that I would just put a filler screw in it as a post 64 is not going to ever be as much money as the pre guns are. I bought a Williams dove tail blank that is drilled and tapped already in the middle that you tighten up to keep it in place. That worked great for rear dove tail. Then all you do is make a base that fits over the dove tail and the front band. It works fine. Otherwise Starmac a fiber optic front sight does wonders I have that on this gun too with side mounted Williams Peep sight on the back.

[JesterGrin_1]

That is the Beauty of the Pearsons Winchester 94 No Drill scope mount. http://www.mod94scoperail.com/index.html As it says there are no holes to drill so you can if you should like to put it back as it was factory either Pre 64 or Post 64. Hard to beat that fact.

I may post some pictures when I get ready to mount it if anyone is interested in such a thing as on the Web site I gave it shows a video of its use and installation on a Post 64 Winchester.

I plan to hunt with the Wincheter 94 30-30 of which will probably mainly be Hogs. And as we all know the best time is Early Morning and Late Evening and of course Night Time. So I feel the extra light gathering capability of a Scope is very much desired in such situations. But as the norm I could be wrong lol.



I use 17 grains of 2400 in my Post 94 made in 94 and it likes that load very accurate for me. As far as optics go I have a green dot sight mounted scout style with a mount I came up with that was what Leupold did years ago using the rear dove tail and a hole drilled in the front forearm band. Only thing I would have to replace to put it back to original is a replacement band and I would not even do that I would just put a filler screw in it as a post 64 is not going to ever be as much money as the pre guns are. I bought a Williams dove tail blank that is drilled and tapped already in the middle that you tighten up to keep it in place. That worked great for rear dove tail. Then all you do is make a base that fits over the dove tail and the front band. It works fine. Otherwise Starmac a fiber optic front sight does wonders I have that on this gun too with side mounted Williams Peep sight on the back.