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View Full Version : My Lesson of the Day: Gas Checking 223 SUX



Guardian
04-02-2014, 12:12 PM
I think I'm done with casting for 223. It took me 30 minutes this morning to gas check ten 223 bullets. The darn things wouldn't clip on, I had to hold them on the Lee sizing punch and push them into the bottom of the Redding T7 turret to get them to seat. Then, five of them came out looking right after a trip through the sizing die. The other 5 ended up with a lip on the bottom of one side of the GC. Apparently I didn't get those seated squarely.

The 45/45/10 tumble lube was easy enough, assuming it works in this application.

I thought casting 223 bullets would be faster than swaging 22LR to 223. I just want a cheap replacement for 22LR ammo, but it needs to cycle an AR. Most of this will get used at 25 yards, so it seemed like swaging was overkill.

Maybe I'll try powder coating a batch of 223 without GC and see if they'll work well enough for the intended purpose.

For the record, I'm enjoying casting, just not 223.

nhrifle
04-02-2014, 12:19 PM
If you put a dab of LLA on the bottom of the boolit it will allow the check to stick to the base until it is crimped in place by the sizing die. I do agree though, casting for .223 can be a lesson in frustration.

Bullshop
04-02-2014, 12:30 PM
And the casting service provided by The Bullshop exists to shelter you from such misery.

rockrat
04-02-2014, 12:38 PM
I have a few 22 moulds, but for now , they are just resting, in case I might need them someday.

I cast some 22 boolits, but as you say, it is a pain to check/lube them!!!

knobster
04-02-2014, 12:43 PM
I tumble-lube mine with Alox after casting and the gas checks stick nicely before I send them through my Lee sizer. Itty bitty things though...

quilbilly
04-02-2014, 01:08 PM
I tumble-lube mine with Alox after casting and the gas checks stick nicely before I send them through my Lee sizer. Itty bitty things though...
Ditto's to this with Hornady checks. Lyman/Ideal checks are a different story. A year ago at a gun show a guy just handed me almost 3000 Ideal brass (not copper) checks free, the All-American price. Even with the LLA they don't stay on well so I figured for the price of the checks (free) I would try supergluing them on before sizing and lubing. It works and I think they even shoot better than the Hornady's (probably my imagination). I don't do the 22's in big batches, just 30-40 whenever the lead pot is hot so frustration with the tiny critters is minimal.

Guardian
04-02-2014, 01:29 PM
And the casting service provided by The Bullshop exists to shelter you from such misery.

:bigsmyl2: But you is a far piece from me and I'm trying to have a workaround for when FedEx, UPS, and USPS ain't operational.

Guardian
04-02-2014, 01:39 PM
Uh, maybe something's wrong on my end. I'm using a Mihec 5.56 Heavy mold and 338RUM supplied checks. (Note: not bringing either person into question, just the compatibility of the two products.) It's not just a matter of holding them on, I needed the press to squeeze them onto the GC shank. These are the first GC I've used, so I just assumed it was supposed to be like that, Lyman having a piece on their lubrisizer to do the same thing and all.

I guess some more measurin' is in order.

I've got an ACE mold that was just received. Guess I'll try that and see if it works any better.

Cmm_3940
04-02-2014, 02:42 PM
Yep, .223 are a pain to lube and check. So far, the quickest I've come up with is to snap the checks on the unlubed boolits using pliers with the jaws heat-shrinked to prevent damage, dip lube in carnauba red, the run through the Lee sizer die UPSIDE DOWN to prevent the checks smearing off the base of the boolits like you described. The sizer scrapes off and deposits the extra lube on the bottom of the check.

nhrifle
04-02-2014, 02:55 PM
Pat Marlin may be able to make a custom check maker to correspond with the shank size of your boolits.

Pb2au
04-02-2014, 03:09 PM
A dot of superglue can do wonders.
Also, look into annealing the checks. They could be a bit springy, thus exaggerating the issue.

Guardian
04-02-2014, 05:09 PM
Thanks Pb2au. Annealing of checks I can do.

nhrifle, I'm sure Pat can hook me up. I'm just not sure I want to get into check making.

I'll cast a few with the ACE mold and see if the checks work better on those bullets. Worst case, I've got some scrap to recycle.

runfiverun
04-02-2014, 08:00 PM
I press my 223 checks into place in batches.
then at a later time I run them through the sizer and lube them.
sometimes running cast boolits through the sizer base first helps square everything up.

Land Owner
04-02-2014, 08:39 PM
I think I'm done with casting for 223.
For the record, I'm enjoying casting, just not 223.

If you, or others, get serious about eliminating 223 from your casting arsenal, I am just heading in that direction, trying to purchase moulds, etc., to give that caliber a try. I have no frustration level with 223 and am in search of some experience. I can cast...PM me.

swopjan
04-02-2014, 08:42 PM
I didn't know there were molds for .223. I'm a super newb but if gas checks aren't working, are they really necessary? At 25 yards you wouldn't need a whole lot of velocity to get the bullet to the target. If reducing the velocity would make the gas system unreliable, what about a harder alloy?

bangerjim
04-02-2014, 09:25 PM
I powder coat all my 223's using DT method.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236743-BEst-way-to-PC-223-s-and-30-s-DT


That coats the entire boolit and gives the GC area a slightly larger diameter. I hold the boolit nose down on the wood bench, put the GC on, and tap it with a small hammer to start it. Then run them thru the Lee sizing die to lock it on.

Takes a little time but not nearly as much as you experienced above!!!!!!!!



bangerjim

Guardian
04-03-2014, 11:23 AM
bangerjim, I started off using a rawhide mallet to smack the checks. They weren't seating straight, so I switched to the press method.

Part of the problem is my fingers are nearly as wide as the darn bullet is long, so grabbing it in the right spot and not smacking my fingers with said mallet or press was part of what slowed me down. Maybe I need to get Darling Wife to do this step. :bigsmyl2: Not bloody likely.

I appreciate the ideas. It'll be a few days before I have time to get back to it, but I'll follow up with some more details.

bangerjim
04-03-2014, 11:32 AM
If your fingers are too big for holding them, take a piece of hardwood of the right thickness and drill several holes larger that the boolits. Drop them in nose first and set the checks on one at a time and whack them with a little hammer. I use a small ball peen hammer with a face diameter of 1/2".

Hope that gives you some ideas!

bangerjim

sawzall
04-03-2014, 11:33 AM
Drill some small holes in a block of wood to drop the nose of the boolits into. Eliminates holding them by hand and is much easier to seat the checks with a small hammer - I use a brass tack hammer with some electrical tape over the face.

*edit* ha ha bangerjim beat me to the punch!

375RUGER
04-03-2014, 11:47 AM
I made a seater tool, took the misery out. A mandrel to hold the boolit with a counter bore just large enough to align the check with the base. Then a profiled nose punch and a tap or two with small hammer and done.
Not my idea, it was Ben's. There is a thread somewhere. Buckshot makes them for any boolit you want.

hanover67
04-03-2014, 05:01 PM
I got some aluminum GC's in .30 caliber that I had problems seating - they would come off in my Lyman seating die. I annealed them by spreading them on a piece of aluminum foil in a 400-degree oven for an hour and now the problem is gone. Easy solution.

bangerjim
04-03-2014, 06:41 PM
Drill some small holes in a block of wood to drop the nose of the boolits into. Eliminates holding them by hand and is much easier to seat the checks with a small hammer - I use a brass tack hammer with some electrical tape over the face.

*edit* ha ha bangerjim beat me to the punch!

Great minds work in the same gutter......................er.................... .track! :D

banger

Guardian
04-03-2014, 10:55 PM
I measured the interior of the check as 0.205. The exterior of the shank measured 0.215. 0.010 difference seems a bit much, but I don't know. The measurements were with calipers, as I don't have an inside mic for the check. What's the interior diameter on a Hornady 22 check? Others?

Thanks for the holes in a board idea! I'll check with Buckshot as well. I may be able to adapt the Mihec nose punch too. I didn't think about that.

I really appreciate the input. Y'all may get me straightened out yet, though that ain't helping Bullshop.

Guardian
04-10-2014, 05:55 PM
I used to board trick last night to seat a few of the checks. It worked nicely. I then moved over to the drill press and chucked the Mihec nose punch in it and then squished the GC on using the spindle pushing on the steel table of the drill press. That was a little faster than the wood block and seemed to work pretty well.

Pushing them through the Lee size base first the GC came out great, but I got a fair number of bent boolits. Going nose first, several of the GC were pulled off the boolit during sizing. Looks like a lubrisizer is in my future.