Let's talk about 45 acp brass

[osteodoc08]

I've been bitten by the 45acp bug lately and have been sorting head stamps. I've run through countless different types. My majority is R-P and Winchester headstamps. But I have others including military, CBC, *I*, Speer, CCI, S&B, Hornady, IMI, etc.

How would you rate the brands of headstamps such as Tier 1, Tier 2, absolute garbage, etc. Trying to get a respectable brass stockpile and seperate (cull) out the less desirable stuff.

[375RUGER]

I sort like this,
Tier 1, Starline
Tier 1, Win, RP, Hornady (sorted together)
All other just gets mixed together for general useage. Unless I run across a brand that gives trouble with primer seating then it's in the trash.
Small primer brass is given away.

[osteodoc08]

I left out starline as I've only found it as used brass in boutique loadings. I do have a few hundred I've bought as virgin brass, but never saw the need to buy with a stock of other brass.

[KYShooter73]

Accuracy - I can't tell a difference.
Longevity - Don't know, I shoot them till the case mouth cracks or until they are so ugly I am ashamed to claim them.
Catastrophic failures - One in many thousands. Glock 21. It was a Winchester case and looked new.

101061

I might sort, but I don't cull any 45 acp because of head stamp.

[CastingFool]

If its PMC, it goes into the scrap barrel. My very first experience reloading PMC 45 acp brass left me with a bad taste. Out of 50 cases I reloaded, a majority had flash holes that were off center.

[gray wolf]

I will limit my comments to a 1911,
I have use all kinds of brass with all kinds of head stamps and never trimmed.
I shoot mostly lead and most times hard to beat on a combat course for accuracy.
I can't say for a 1911 that one is better than the other, the only case I discard is one that shows week neck tension, and for the lead bullets I don't like brass that is overly thick and may reduce my bullet size.
IMHO I find many things more interesting that rejecting 45 ACP brass.

[AnthonyB]

AMERC brass is immediately junked. I might sort by maker if I have nothing better to do and want an impressive looking box of ammo. Other than that, if it will stand up on its own it gets loaded. I am also a big fan on the SP brass that people give away :)

[gwpercle]

I hate to admit it , but when it comes to 45 acp I separate them into brass and nickel plated. Small and large primer. Then load em all regardless of headstamp. About the best I can do is mixed Military in a box of 50 and mixed commercial in another. But I don't mix brass and nickel plated ...I do have standards. And I load them until a crack appears ( these are target loads with 200 gr cast SWC).
Hope I don't get drummed out of the corps.
Gary

[trucker76]

I just sort small and large primer and load away. Pretty much all my .45acp shooting is done at 25 yards or less...usually 25 feet or less for defensive training.

[Ed_Shot]

I hate to admit it , but when it comes to 45 acp I separate them into brass and nickel plated. Small and large primer. Then load em all regardless of headstamp. About the best I can do is mixed Military in a box of 50 and mixed commercial in another. But I don't mix brass and nickel plated ...I do have standards. And I load them until a crack appears ( these are target loads with 200 gr cast SWC).
Hope I don't get drummed out of the corps.
Gary

That's exactly what I do also.

[ShooterAZ]

Amerc & weird unknown headstamps go in the trash, S&B gets primer pockets swaged on the Dillon 600. R-P, WW, FED, and other U.S. made quality brass I use for target loads. My absolute favorite 45ACP brass is IMI Match. I've had great success with this brass along with Starline running a close second. Some may think otherwise, but I will toss nickel plated brass as well. I have found that they split long before a regular brass case will.

[prs]

In 45ACP I find little difference and nothing to gripe about with Starline, WW, or R-P. Small primer 45ACP are culled and given way to avoid progressive press jambs. That is what I have on hand. In 45 Colt, I favor Starline, am happy with WW and not so fond of R-P.

prs

[Cmm_3940]

I sort out the Winchester and load them separately. I notice they seem to have thicker walls and seem to consistently crimp tighter. Everything else seems consistently inconsistent even within the same headstamp, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I can't speak of Starline; i don't buy it and the people who do don't seem to leave it on the ground for me to pick up.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have never had an issue with .45 ACP brass. Never a split neck but I have picked up some guppy bellied .45's that may have been shot with a Glock or another unsupported chamber. Those I toss immediately. When I pick up strange brass I cull out the military crimped cases and keep them until I have a couple of hundred or so. Then I run those thru a Dillon device which removes the crimp from the cases. Generally the military brass is a mite thicker and therefor the chamber pressures will be a bit higher. Therefore I always keep the mil surp brass segregated. There is nothing wrong with it but having less capacity it should cause a round to be a mite faster and thereby hit the target at a different elevation. I keep a couple of hundred completed military rounds loaded with XTP bullets and low flash powder for SHTF scenarios. Most of it is buried near my trailer and I always keep 200 rounds in the trunk of my Honda.

I know that I can depend on the quality of that brass and I have been known to load my defensive rounds kinda warm to duplicate the ballistics of high dollar defensive factory rounds. These rounds are to back up my factory made expensive defensive rounds only and I always keep loaded magazines handy filled with my high quality reloads for those purposes.

So when selecting brass for match use I do not use military brass in my mix. I also have no use for small primered brass in .45 ACP at all. I save it in a bucket and someday I will either scrap it or trade it off to someone who will use it.

[geargnasher]

Lessee, .45 ACP? Free is best, shoot it 'till the headstamp is gone or it won't hold a boolit or primer tightly. If you manage to shoot it that much, you are a stud or have very little brass. Sorting? I sort, which is to say I load all the Federal so I know it's mine, same three thousand over and over again. The other headstamps are still cleaned and sorted, empty in boxes, waiting their turn as they have for 10-15 years. I have had exactly two case failures ever, and I shot tens of thousands of .45 ACP, mostly with jacketed bullets. One was with a too-soft lead boolit that telescoped and blew up the gun, (my fault), the other was a harmless split case due to running a test with a free sample of some newfangled anti-leading coating that a snake-oil salesman was trying to peddle here. The stuff makes metal stick together under pressure like you wouldn't believe. (also my fault for trying it).

Actually, I don't like the very tight Speer primer pockets or the dished case heads (IMI is similar and my progressive will leave the primers a touch proud), and I don't particularly care for some of the off-brands with oddly oversized primer pockets. Small primer brass gets thrown in a bucket for the time I may get low on LPPs. Nothing against it, in fact I sort of wish it was ALL small primer, but I'm not using it right now.

Gear

[tomme boy]

I sort the small primers out and that is it. I even load the Americs that everyone hates. It loads fine for me. I'm just plinking. My gun does prefer Federal brass though. Groups are tighter with just them. That's the beauty of the low PSI 45 ACP. You don't have to sort.

[David2011]

For my tastes tier 5 is Amerc (worst brass I have ever encountered), S&B and any .45 ACP with small primer pockets. Everything else is tier 1.

All commercial gets loaded without further sorting.

The military brass I have has a heavier wall so it's kept separate from commercial. It's good quality; just different.


David

[dragon813gt]

Sort by primer size, load and shoot. I purchased what should be a lifetime supply from Starline a month ago. But I forgot that they use LPP so now I have to keep them in stock. I was loading SPP exclusively in hopes of not having to stock LPP anymore since 45acp is the only LPP case I reload for.

[osteodoc08]

Well, I sorted into a few piles. R-P, Winchester, Speer/Federal/CCI/other American mfg, misc and nickle. I have about 1000 each R-P and Winchester. Approx 500-750 American Mfg and 250 other.

I did cull the 40 or so SPP brass I had and tossed it into a quart size freezer bag. It was mostly if not all Federal.

I've got another 500 or so assorted HS loaded with 200gr LSWC and 5gr 231.

Gonna keep collecting and sorting.

[DLCTEX]

I was trading off spp cases, but have started keeping them separate so that I can use srp in a pinch in these crazy supply times if I have to.

[KYCaster]

I'll start sorting 45ACP brass when I run out of things to do.

My culling process starts when I load the case feeder. Grab a hand full of brass and give it a shake; you can hear a cracked case ring......find it and discard it.

If it doesn't fit in the shell plate or is mangled to the point it won't go in the sizing die, discard it.

If it doesn't accept a primer, discard it. Most of my culls are found at this point. I usually keep a few sized and primed cases on hand so I can just remove the offending case and replace it with a primed case and continue to load. I often find S&B, AMERC, FC, some older military and, of course, those pesky small primer cases that go in the scrap bucket.

I don't try to reclaim any of the rejects; I can pick up brass at the range much faster than I can rehabilitate offenders.

This system has been working for me for many years and many thousands of rounds. I don't load 45ACP to the ragged edge of the pressure limit, so brass thickness and case capacity are not a concern. Almost all the failures I've had have been high primers (not seating to the bottom of the primer pocket) and if I'm diligent about my post-loading QC, I'll catch them before they go in the magazine.

Jerry

[swopjan]

I didn't know there was still a lot of military surplus .45 ACP out there. Is it all lake city headstamps like more current military brass offerings (I know WCC and LC stamps are common for surplus brass lots of 9mm/.50BMG)?

I have several thousand pieces of mixed .45 ACP brass I bought last year while playing what I call 'Gunbroker penny slots.' I sorted most of it into gallon bags, I figure I'll load and shoot the miscellaneous stuff and whatever couple brands I have the most of will be saved for later in case I want to really strive for accuracy.

Anything that's complete junk I'll save for two steps further into this hobby, I've got shooting kinda figured out, reloading now, then casting, and eventually swaging the used brass into all new boolits! :-)

[sljacob]

While we are on the subject, my gunsmith was giving me a hard time for loading PMC brass in .45ACP, he was telling

me that it was prone to case failure. I had never heard that before. Is there any truth to that or is it just

another urban legend?

[gmsharps]

I think I have loaded just about every 45 acp case there is at one time or the other and have not found any real issues with any of them. I just can't seem to wear them out. Of course I am not pushing the envelope either. If you wanted to do a test take a marker and mark the end of the case so you can tell them apart and shoot them until you have failures and see how long that takes. I've done that with a box of nickel plated 38spl cases. I had a split after the first reload on a couple but I still had a few going after the nickel plating had all worn off and I had near 50 reloads with the final cases. So depending on how hot you load them and that particular lot of brass case life will vary.

gmsharps

[dagunnut]

Midway had a blowout sale last year on military surplus steel cased 45acp in the large sardine cans with a repack date of 1943. Its all packed in the nice brown cardboard 50 round boxes. I haven't brought myself to shoot any of it yet but gave my dad a few boxes of it to keep with my granddads Remington Rand 1911 he bought for $35 when he came home from WWII. So yes there is still surplus 9mm, 45acp, 5.56, 30carb, 308, 30-06, 50bmg if you look for it and are willing to pay the sellers asking fee. CMP gets some from time to time but it goes quickly when they do get it.

I will not reload A-merc it goes right to the scrap bucket. other than that I separate out small primer from large and pick out all nickel and set it aside for critter loads.

Mario
dagunnut

[Boyscout]

PMC & Fiocchi have given me trouble with off-center primer holes and usually pitch them. S&B and some Winchester have given me problems with tight primer pockets; those I sort for reaming if they are range pick ups. Everything else gets thrown together and used.

If my 45 ACP brass fails, it is usually a small vertical split about a fourth of the way down the case which is noticable after I polish my brass.

[Shiloh]

I have brass for .38 and .45 ACP that is older than me.
The one time I bought it new, many years ago, it was Winchester. I have sorted in the past, and tried to keep it seperate, but it seemed to wind up mixed again. I do have some that is kept seperate for accuracy testing.

SHiloh

[LenH]

An old Bullseye buddy told me not to waste any time sorting through brass. I looked at some of his and they were so old that they barely had head stamps.
He always shot them until they split, and that isn't too often. Mine aren't that old, YET.

[bobthenailer]

I have used at times every brand of brass that was talked about + quite a few other brands, now usually s&b and some other oddballs goes in the scrap bucket

the brands i use the most are ,TZZ , IMI, WCC, winchester, starline ,PMC, speer/cci, federal , R&P.
What i do is use a different load in each brand of brass that way if i look at the headstamp i know what powder & charge wt was used.

[Mk42gunner]

The only .45 brass I have ever had any trouble loading was TZZ from the late 80's or early 90's. This was from back when we were having problems with high pressure loadings cracking slides on the extremely worn 1911-A1's the Navy had.

I load on a single stage press and if it fits in the shell holder, it gets loaded. I am not shooting bullseye matches, but do okay with my mixed brass, W231 ad 452460.

So just how much pressure does it take to expand the rim of a .45 ACP case to .487"? I got curious after several cases didn't go in the shell holder and measured a few, .484-.487". Surprised the heck out of me. The ones that get loaded seem to be good brass, so I don't know if it was high pressure loads or soft brass.

Robert

[tomme boy]

I don't know why you guys don't like the S&B 45 brass?? I really like it. I hand prime all of my 45 brass so that might make a difference.

Save it all and send it to me. I am not kidding!

Military brass is set aside and the crimps are removed then into the bucket with the rest. SP is set aside to sell.

[pastor]

i dont sort at all, brass, nickle all loaded together, never really look at headstamp, shoot-tumble-reload-shoot-tumble etc etc, if i have trouble priming or any issues while running them thru my 550b then they come out and are thrown away, the only kind of sorting i do is, i dont pick up any small primer 45acp brass, there is seems to be quite alot of it on the ground at the shooting range, but, i have several thousand rounds of large primer so i stick with that

[6bg6ga]

I sort out any small primer brass and give it away. The rest is used with no problems experienced.

[spfd1903]

Over the last couple years I have had access to thousands of pieces of Speer and WIN NT SPP brass. No matter how many times I have cleaned and adjusted the Large primer feed on the Dillon 550B, it still has consistency issues. The Small primer feed is flawless in performance so loading all the SPP. 45 auto is a lot quicker. The oldest cases I loaded were a batch from the local junkyard. Rem-UMC, WRA, WRA "Match", and some WCC from the 1960's. They were not shiny even after tumbling, but fired just fine. Found some of the Chrysler-Sunbeam steel case (Unknown to me at the moment) surplus at the range and tried everything to get it to shine up. When I realized gray was the only color it was going to be, I took a magnet to it and then researched the headstamp. So far, never any issues with PMC(Purchased the ammo in the last four years and reloaded the brass) or S & B.

[MtGun44]

For REAL match ammo - like I will win a medal if I shoot good enough, I use only
R-P brass after extensive testing. Other than that, S&B is a PITA with shallow and
small primer pockets. Swage pockets on military cases, other than that, all
in the bucket to run - less small primer brass.

Bill

[noylj]

Have you done any comparison testing or just "assumed" that sorting would be of benefit?
I know this makes no sense, but in all the tests I have done over 40 years with sorting, I have not found one single time where sorting made any statistical improvement in group size for any handgun and, in most cases, I could argue that the mixed sets were more accurate (they can't be, but damn if 80% of the time they produce the smaller group any way--though not be a significant amount based on a student t-Test).
Without testing, you really don't KNOW anything.