lead hardness tester, Which one???????????

[Capt Fox]

I have not done any casting in several years, however I am getting all my gear together to start again just for the fun of it.
In the past I remember occasionally having leading issues.
what testing method and tools would you all recommend to use to determine how hard my lead is?
I will be using wheel weights or ingots that I cast from them 20 + years ago.
I also will be melting reclaimed shot.

thanks for your time

[bangerjim]

Been asked many many times on her.

Depends on you budget.

Uber-cheeeeep - fingernail - SWAG
Cheeeeeeep - artist pencils - almost SWAG
Lee microscope hardness tester - accurate but very hard to use and slow
CabineTree - fast & VERY accurate but expensive

There are a couple other high-end ones out there but I have no use time with them.

I own both Lee and Cabine. Use Cabine almost every day! Have not used the Lee in many months. Going to give it away to a friend.

Do an ADVANCED SEARCH on here for reviews on hardness testers.

Up to you!

banger

['74 sharps]

I love my fingernail.....works every time.

[Walter Laich]

+1 CabineTree great machine

[AbitNutz]

Cabine Tree. The only improvement I can think of is to make so the point doesn't rotate...which is what I'm going to have done. It's going to be really cool the way we're (the machinist) is planning to do it. I'll post pictures when it happens.

[trapper9260]

I use the Lee tester and I made a simple stand to do the reading and adjust and then good to go.

[DougGuy]

I used the Mars Staedtler pencil set, $12 from Staples.

There is enough info in this thread to be able to convert the pencil numbers to BHN numbers: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils

[OuchHot!]

I have used a saeco and it gave reproducible results but the numbers need converting to BHN. I have a cabin tree and like it a lot. I have used the pencil tactic and it worked well for me once I got my technique down.....

[runfiverun]

I have a saeco [which I rarely use] if I ever think I need something else it will definitely be a cabin tree.

[Pmc]

I use a drill press and bathroom scales.

[upnorthwis]

I love my LBT. Of course it's the only one I have besides my fingernail. Which seemed to work for many years.

[engineer401]

CabineTree. You won't regret it.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If I was going to spend the money, Cabin Tree is the overall best on previous threads,,,,where they went head to head , CT, Sarco, LBT , Lee.....most folks like the CT...IMHO..Jim:brokenima

[220swiftfn]

Shocked that no-one else has mentioned this.....

I'd say that your best bet is a set of micrometers.... Most of the time leading is caused by poor fit. Other than that, if you're the curious sort, I'd second the Lee unit for relatively reproducible results at a decent price.....


Dan

[btroj]

Cabin tree.

[fivegunner]

Cabin Tree [smilie=2:[smilie=2:

[Ed1]

Cabin tree, very easy to use.

[Mk42gunner]

I have a Lee, it does okay, but was difficult enough to use when I had good eyesight. I haven't used it for a few years.

I had a Saeco for about a day, I did not like it.

If I were to buy another hardness tester on purpose, it would be the Cabin Tree.

In my opinion, a hardness tester really isn't necessary, nor is a thermometer. You will get more use out of a thermometer though.

Robert

[Shuz]

I have used a Saeco tester for many years and find it to be very reliable and repeatable. It's one big drawback is it's ability to only test bullets; and with flat meplats. No ingots, or lead strips etc. When I make up a new alloy, I always get my Lee .44-200-RNFP up to temp and cast about 20 boolits, and then when cooled off, place them in an empty medicine bottle that will remain with the ingots for hardness testing over time.

[pls1911]

LBT is about as simple as it gets, and gives decent readings and good repeatability.
Most folks seem to like CT... I may need to check 'em out...

[Foto Joe]

When I looked a couple of weeks ago the Cabine Tree was not available nor would it be for some time according to the web site. I've watched a Lee being used and yes I can see where it could be a pain but for a starter I'm thinking that's what I'll probably go with.

[montana_charlie]

If you get a Lee it will give you Brinell hardness readings.
If you get a Cabine Tree it will give you readings that agree with the published charts.

CM

[Foto Joe]

If you get a Lee it will give you Brinell hardness readings.
If you get a Cabine Tree it will give you readings that agree with the published charts.

CM

Explain that one for me will you. Am I missing something?

[montana_charlie]

Explain that one for me will you. Am I missing something?
The published charts show values for the binary (lead/tin) alloys that must have been deduced, inferred, or extrapolated from other testing results ... not actual test of those alloys. I say that because they are pretty far off.
Take pure lead for starters. Certified pure lead will return a Brinell Hardness value of 4.5 ... not 5 BHN.
If you begin calculations to determine the hardness of alloys where you are adding tin, you can't possibly get it right if you start out with the wrong value for the lead. Go a step further by using the wrong value for the tin, and you have no hope.

So, you have to test alloys to know how hard they are.
The charts say that Lyman #2 is 15 BHN, and they are correct. But that is because Lyman tested that alloy to learn it's hardness and that value was placed in the charts ... long after their original publishing date.

Check out the chart's BHN numbers for everything from pure lead to 20:1
Lead: 5
Tin: 7
30-1: 9
20-1: 10


These are correct numbers. (I didn't do the testing that produced these numbers, by my own hardness tests confirm them.)
Certified Lead: 4.5
Certified Tin: 5.0
Certified 30-1: 6.66
Certified 20-1: 7.8

The antimonal alloys in the charts may be correct, I really don't know. I don't use any of them, so I haven't any to test.

Anyway, the Lee tester gives Brinell results. It uses the Brinell method, and the Brinell math.
Other testers give you what the charts say you should expect.
If you are testing certified 20-1, it will say your alloy has a hardness equivalent to 10 BHN.

CM

[bangerjim]

Explain that one for me will you. Am I missing something?

In other words, Lee gives you Bhn based upon your measuring a dent in your lead which by math, yields a Brinell number. Been done that way since it was invented.

Cabine gives you a DERIVED number in fractional inches (0.075) that is the depth the point penetrates the ingot which you look up on a chart that comes with the unit to tell you the hardness. Not quite based upon the classic math formula, but very accurate and extremely repeatable.

It is all relative anyway. EXACT hardness is not that important anymore. Many have wrote about it and many more proved it. Repeatability......now that is a different story!!!!! Lee relies on your eyes, incident light, measuring a tiny dimple with a microscope.....a LOT of variables that can effect the resultant value. With a Cabine, you just crank the handle one complete turn and read the fractional dial. I use a DIGITAL readout for accuracy! If you can count to ONE, you can use it in any light, any location, in about 3 seconds, with very good repeatability and minimal variables.

Both do work, I prefer the repeatability and speed of the Cabine.

bangerjim

[GP100man]

Don`t laff ,it works good nuff.

But once ya learn what ya gotta do to get what ya need you`ll use it lesser.
I do use it on a new batch of lead I alloyed to double check my thumb nail.

A tester does help me save on alloys though , keeps me from useing too much!

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/Leescopeholder-1.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/Leescopeholder-1.jpg.html)

[John Boy]

Capt Fox - read this article comparing all the hardness testers and then make your own decision ...
http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm

[retread]

GP100man,
I'm not laughing, I'm heading out to the shop to copy it! Great cheap idea, thanks.

[buck1]

Wait for Cabin Tree.

[Smoke4320]

if you can afford it ... Cabin tree... quality product that should last your lifetime plus it woks as it is supposed to..

[fredj338]

I've had the Saeco, good but limiting. I now have a Cabin Tree, easy to use & you can do scrap or ingots. The Lee, to diff to use to warrant not spending a bit more on the CT. If you are off 1-2BHN, who cares, it isn't making the bullets better or worse.

[Foto Joe]

I read the article that John Boy linked and I was kind of surprised by what I read. It appears that the Lee cheap as it is does indeed work pretty good, but the problem of course is using the microscope. Larry Gibson has his set up in an old kids microscope and it works pretty good. On the other hand I think the trick that GP100man posted for holding the scope is pretty ingenious and I think that might just be the way to go until you find a kids microscope at a yard sale to butcher.