Casting 44 mag

[trucker76]

Ok, so in my preparations for casting my boolits I already covered my 38 and 45 in a previous post. For those I'm only casting for plinking/target shooting as any self defense loads will be commercial. I also have a ruger super blackhawk in 44 mag I would like to hunt with. So what I'm trying to decide is what mold to get, what lead alloy mix to use, and what lube to use. I would be hunting whitetail and possibly PA bear and also some mild target shooting (less than 100 rounds a week, if that). I'm thinking something in the 240-300 grain flat nose range. How hard should my alloy be? I'm thinking somewhere in the 16-20 range to survive the pressure yet get good expansion. Also lubing. I don't think tumble lube would work with the pressure so it would be medium or hard lube. As I won't be reloading hundreds of these a week I was thinking pan lubing with hard lube would be fine and save me the expense of a lube sizer. I know little about lube other than the alox tumble lube so suggestions would be appreciated there. Anything I haven't considered yet? My current lead supply will consist of ingots of pure lead, ww, and hopefully some linotype so I should be able to find some ratio there that would work to cast the right hardness, just looking for suggestions from the guru's.

BTW I ordered my casting stuff from midway yesterday and it's scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I guess I better get a bench built, though I don't think it will be warm enough outside to smelt my lead into ingots until next week. 30 degrees seems like it may be hard to control temps to get the lead to melt.

[spfd1903]

I have been using a Lyman 429421 mold to cast a 240 grain boolit. They usually drop at .431+ . The Lyman fourth edition Cast Bullet handbook suggests lino-type for this mold but I have used Lyman #2 alloy with no leading. There is load data for this boolit also on the .44 special page. I put a heavy tumble lube on (two coats). A couple slugs I captured in some wet phone books were intact.

[djgoings]

I also like the Lyman 429421. I load with 18 grains of 2400 powder (about 1200FPS w/6" barrel). Have used 50/50 or BAC lube.

[MT Gianni]

Try the 429421 with air cooled ww alloy around 12 bhn and you are good for Elk.

[seaboltm]

For plinking I use the Lee 240 TL mold. Held to moderate velocity they do great. For harder hitting loads I use the Lee 300 grain with a gas check over a stiff charge of H110. In both cases I use straight ww, water quenched. that should more than suffice for mr. elk. I have some linotype on hand should I need a harder alloy.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm going to suggest 2 moulds; one for "plinking/target shooting" and the other for "hunting".

I suggest a Lee TL430-240-SWC for the "plinking/target shooting" bullet. These are very useful bullets for exactly what you mention. I use that bullet in my own .44s (4 revolvers and a Contender) for the exact purpose you mention. COWWs + 2% tin and then mixed 50/50 with lead make an excellent alloy for this bullet at low to medium 44 Magnum velocities (upwards of 1200 - 1300 fps). TLing them in LLA as per the instructions works very well for me as you will find pan lubing "100 bullets per week" will get old real quick. If you don't want to get a lubrasizer then TLing is the next best thing.

For hunting I suggest the Lyman Devastator HP (429640HP). It is a GC'd bullet and can be driven to max 44 velocity/pressures with excellent accuracy. I suggest casting it out of 20-1 or 16-1 (whichever shoots best in your revolver), size it at .430 or .431 and use a softer lube (much better for pan lubing) such as Lar's BAC or NRA 50/50 lube. Use Hornady GC. You won't use a lot of these so the extra expense (not much per bullet actually) of the GC isn't really that much of a problem. With H110/296 you should expect 1400+ fps with this bullet. Mine weigh out at 270 gr with 16-1 alloy. Some will tell you not to use HPs because they "blow up" etc. add nauseum but this bullet of this alloy does not. It will expand nicely and penetration is excellent (I've yet to recover one in a deer).

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

Try the 429421 with air cooled ww alloy around 12 bhn and you are good for Elk.

this is where I'm at too.
10-12 bhn and pushed along with 19 grs of 2400 will absolutely smoke any deer around out to 100 yds or so. [7.2 grs of unique in the 44 special will shoot through a 600 pound Holstein steer easily]
it'll make a nice straight line through an elk too.
if I have to ramp things up from there I switch to the 445 super mag case and the rcbs 240gr gas check mold of pretty much the same design.

[DougGuy]

As usual, Larry nails it!

I don't have either of the boolits he mentions but my best hunting load for .44 is the Lee C430-310-RF over 17.0gr H2400. A LOT of people like this boolit for .44 Magnum. This is not a max load, it's an accurate, controllable hunting load for thin skinned game. It's probably 85 to 90% of what the SBH can handle. For hogs or elk, even a large bear this same boolit over H110, cast in a slightly harder alloy will give you about 1250f/s.

This is cast in 50/50+2% and is soft enough to scratch with a thumbnail, BHN 12 or so, it also is a gas check boolit and I use Hornady checks with these, and Felix (soft) lube. I get very good accuracy and zero leading. Likely your gun will shoot one alloy better than others, mine took an immediate liking to the softer alloy and I suspect yours may do the same.

With a wide flat nose like these have, a hollowpoint isn't necessary as they are efficient killers just like they are. Even at 1150f/s it's not likely you will recover one in a deer or black bear, as they would penetrate completely assuring (hopefully) the animal won't go very far.

This boolit, and the Lyman "Devastator" that Larry mentioned are probably two of the best hunting boolits ever made for a .44 Magnum.

Lyman "Devastator" thread here with photos: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210238-lyman-devastator

Lee C430-310-RF boolit:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/466c9cd3-4396-4945-8fd1-d7edadfffdf2_zpsdbbc2485.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/466c9cd3-4396-4945-8fd1-d7edadfffdf2_zpsdbbc2485.jpg.html)

Edit: 50/50+2% means 50% wheel weight 50% pure lead 2% tin. The tin is not necessary to make a good boolit, however it tends to allow the pour to fill out the corners in the mold quite well and it also will help a boolit hold together during expansion instead of fragment, it toughens them a bit.

You will often see 50/50 or 50 - 50 on this forum, generally it means 50% wheel weight, 50% pure lead. Wheel weight, often referred to as coww = clip on wheel weight and soww = stick on wheel weight. Clip on wheel weight is a great alloy just as it is, but you can't normally scratch it with a thumbnail. Stick on wheel weight is very soft.

[trucker76]

Wow thanks for the replies. Lots of choices to consider. One question. I see all kinds of sources for scrap lead, I haven't researched tin. I'm sure there is some source out there for the proper tin to use. Enlighten me.

EDIT: never mind. Found this thread that answers my question. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?48458-Good-sources-for-scrap-tin

[trucker76]

I suggest casting it out of 20-1 or 16-1 (whichever shoots best in your revolver)

OK noob question. What are these ratios referring to?

[mdi]

OK noob question. What are these ratios referring to?
Pure lead to tin. 20-1 = twenty parts pure lead to one part tin, and 16-1 is sixteen parts lead to one part tin. Elmer Keith experimented/developed loads mostly with 16-1 alloy...

[44man]

I really like the Lee 310 for deer.
It works fine if hard, just experiment with alloys until it shoots good. It will not matter what alloy you make it from as long as you get the accuracy.
The other boolits will work fine too.

[ACrowe25]

I've killed a couple deer this year with Lee's 429-430 and straight wheel weights over 7.3 grains of 231.


Nothing fancy and nothing too not. NA animals are still made of skin and meat not body armor.

[fredj338]

I shoot the Lyman or RCBS 245-250gr SWC for practice & my hunting bullet is a modified Lyman Dev to a cup point, recently removed the gc. it comes in @ 270gr & run at 1250fps using 20-1, about as good as it gets for 100-400# animals IMO. With 25-1, it is a little soft for larger game, but for deer, pretty good.
I like WhiteLabel CR but Randy's Tac works fine too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-272.jpg.html)

[trucker76]

Pure lead to tin. 20-1 = twenty parts pure lead to one part tin, and 16-1 is sixteen parts lead to one part tin. Elmer Keith experimented/developed loads mostly with 16-1 alloy...

Oh, so no antimony in that mix then. gotcha.

[runfiverun]

yeah for a smushy mushy boolit without brittleness either no tin or no antimony.
the 50-50 generally referred to works better without the addition of tin to the mix.
by letting the tin in the ww's drop to about .20% it acts like a grain refiner more than a surface tension remover, however the alloy also becomes more malleable.
if you water drop the boolit it acts like case hardening, this then let's you push it along harder
and you still get the on target benefits of the more malleable alloy.

[44man]

Being a long time ML hunter I love pure lead.
I just can't shoot too soft in revolvers with smokeless. But the darn Old Army C&B has taken many deer for me with a round ball. Distance is just reduced, wrong twist for the velocity I get. 41 gr of Swiss FFFG gives me 1102 fps. Balls never stop in a deer.
But a lighter boolit, soft with a HP might not penetrate a deer or can go to pot on a bone. I would not be shooting at bears with them.

[L Ross]

trucker76, you have received a lot of good advice, let me add a note on pan lubing. Unlike many on this site, I have had splendid luck pan lubing. I pan lube exclusively for my schuetzen rifles and my BPCR rifles, and often do hundreds at a time. I cannot say enough good about Bullshop's NASA lube. It is my go to pan lube. I save throw away deli trays. The low flat black plastic ones that have tapered or flared sides. I never heat my lube with anything other than a double boiler. I stand the bullets in rows in the deli tray leaving no less than a 1/4 inch between the individual bullets. I leave a spot to pour the lube with out pouring on any bullets, in other words a nice gap about an inch square to pour in. Next I warm them a bit with a blow drier if it is cold down in the utility room, and pour the melted lube around the bullets as deep as the number of lube grooves I wish to cover. I let them cool to room temperature. If I'm in a bit hurry I set them in the freezer as soon as the lube has gelled enough to carry the pan without the lube moving. Don't forget them in the freezer, a half hour is plenty. Gently dump the bullet infested cake out of the deli tray and push the bullets out backwards with your thumb. Pad your thumb if the bullets are pointy. The driving bands are perfectly clean, the lube grooves beautifully full. I credit the NASA lube for the ease with which this works, not any special skill on my part.

Duke

[GP100man]

This 1 will cover any hunting needs & ya can cast a bunch in short order !!!

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=563&osCsid=trkkfkpscf6cub2uo5u2h3fii4

[MtGun44]

Lyman 429421 or RCBS 44-250 K using aircooled wwt alloy with a bit of tin added will
work just fine.

Bill

[reloader28]

As long as shot placement is good, I really dont think alloy makes a difference as long as you have a flat nose.
We've used straight clip on WW with good results on deer and even a mountain lion (shot with a 45 colt).
That said, I do usually use air cooled 50/50/2% for most of the hunting boolits with great results.

I should add that our kills were with rifles since I aint had a chance with my pistol yet.

[Shuz]

trucker76--I suggest you invest in a 4 cavity clone of the Lyman 429421 or H&G 503, as mf'd by N.O.E. or MP-Molds. I have experience with both of these mfr's and their products are excellent. Shooting as often as you are planning to do will be made much easier going the 4C route. I have found this design and 8g or so of Green Dot to be a fine boolit for plinking, and plenty adequate for deer sized and skinned animals. If more power is needed for elk, go to either 2400,WC 820,or WW 296/H-110. with the same boolit. I have successfully used the Lyman 429640 Devastator on deer, but I find, the one at a time, casting to be a bit too time consuming for my needs. If you believe that a hollow point is desired for hunting, both of those mfr's make hollow point 429421 clones available. There are other custom mould mfr's out there, but I've not had experience with them.(yet!)