Problem with hand load and chambering my 30-30

[milsurpaddict]

Hey everyone

I made some loads the other day for my 30-30 I just recently bought. I have never fired this gun and I have never made rounds for this gu n before. I loaded a 113 grain lead cast lee boolit and I did not use a gas check as I was keeping the load very low and the speed really slow. I seated the boolit to a length of 2.43 inches. When I went to the range I tried to chamber the rounds and all of them appeared to be to long. The boolit measures out at .305 at its widest circumference. The gun is a marlin 30-30 from the 1980. Any idea what might be wrong?

[chsparkman]

2.43 is well below Lyman's max length of 2.55. Is there evidence that the boolit engaged the rifling? Does factory ammo chamber? 30-30 brass is sensitive to over-crimping.

[Hickok]

The brass case may have the shoulder pushed forward, and wont allow the case to enter fully in the chamber. You say you have never fired this rifle, so I take it the brass came from another rifle.

Set your sizing down down a little and size a case. Then see if the case will chamber. If not, set the sizing die down a little more and size a case, then try it to see if it will chamber, keep doing this until a sized case will chamber.

Lever actions are kinda' springy in the action and allow cases to stretch alot when fired. Your cases you are reloading may just need the sizing die set down to push the shoulder back some, and further size the case.

If this is not the cause, it could be like chparkman said, you may have too much crimp.

You should have your cast boolits about .310"-.311" diameter for the 30/30.

[woodsie57]

Milsurp- Had a similar prob. with my 1970's Glenfield, using once fired brass- Try sizing the brass, then turn the case 180 degrees, and size again. worked for me, reloads chamber as easily as factory stuff. only takes a second. Don't know or care why it works, but it does!

[runfiverun]

you didn't try to chamber a resized case ??
the 305 thing throws me a bit too.
if the nose is 305 it could be hitting the rifling stopping you from chambering the round.

I'd go back to square one and see if the brass will chamber before going any further.

[mikeym1a]

When I read the OP I wondered, '.....did he full-length resize his brass....'? i have two different GEW 88s. Cases from one will not chamber in the other. After full-length resizing, I had no more chambering problems.

[milsurpaddict]

Well the brass chambered very nicely. However when I seated the boolit at the length I said before at 2.43 inches it would not chamber. I then put a little pressure on the lever and it eventually chambered but when I took the case out of the gun the boolit was seated even further deeper. The OAL was 2.32 this is way to short is it not?

I did resize all the brass which was once fired brass from another gun not mine.

[beagle]

Based on that test, I'd say the bullet nose is too large in diameter and the lands are reseating the bullet. Had a 311291 mould like that once that went .302+ on the nose diameter. Would not chamber in a Marlin 336 that I had. I traded for another 311291 with a nose that ran just a tad over .300 and it chambered but left light rifling marks. Shot fine that way. The Marlin's gone now and my M94s are not as picky.

If this is the case, you should see marks on the nose where the rifling is impacting when you chamber and reseat the bullet./beagle

[Pb2au]

I concur with Mr. beagle.
I'll bet that the nose of the boolit is just a wee bit to large to slip into bore. My Marlin is just a smidge close to the same thing. I got lucky and it is a nice snug fit.
Look for those marks from the rifling on the nose.

[cwheel]

I recently had the same problem. Lee mold (309-150-30 ) had the bullet nose to large ( .302 ) to load to the listed OAL in my Winchester 94 30:30. Might work with a Marlin Micro-grove, but not a Winchester. Normal Winchester slugs @.308 Major OD, and a Minor OD of .300. ( the minor dia. is the drill and ream size of the barrel before rifling ) To get this mold to work, needed to deep seat the bullets about 1/8" deeper than normal. I don't work at the top pressure for my cast loadings, 27gr. of 3031, so there is room for the pressure increase with the deeper seated bullets. But the problem is with the nose section of the mold for sure, and Lee's mistake. Here is a test you can do. In a safe place, chamber a live round if it will chamber, don't force it. Eject the round and look for rifling marks in the boolit. Rifling marks indicate a press fit engaging the rifling, in a hunting rifle, not a good thing. To chamber and function well in a Winchester bore, bullet nose section needs to be smaller than .299. If larger in a lever, extracted loaded rounds could leave the bullet in the chamber stuck in the rifling. Big safety problem if another round is loaded and fired with 2 bullets in the barrel. I've looked at my mold long and hard and there is no good way to make the bullets cast small enough to reliably function without short seating with my Lee mold. If you have a new mold, send it back, get a refund. I'm going to buy a Lyman next time, some of Lee's molds are great, just not this one.
Chris

[runfiverun]

if you can chamber the round and have it engrave the nose lightly and still extract the round you have good mechanical fit.
it's when you cannot do that, that you have an issue.

in this case I would just seat them to the shorter oal and shoot some.

[rintinglen]

I vote with runfiverun. Load 'em short, charge the cases light, and give them a go. They may well surprise you.

[retiredPO]

Have the Same issue with My 30-30 marlin micro.... Its almost always the crimp... cases chamber beautifully.... load them,
wont chamber.... use a bullet puller.... try the case again, wont chamber.... VIOLA... its the case.... and the crimp....
back the crimp/bullet seater die out till it just barley touches the case... then seet bullet depth.... My bet it that will do it....
Worked for me....

[Hickok]

Milsurpaddict, keep us posted on your findings. So many times we never hear about the cause and cure!

[beagle]

I agree 100%. Exactly the fit you're looking for./beagle


if you can chamber the round and have it engrave the nose lightly and still extract the round you have good mechanical fit.
it's when you cannot do that, that you have an issue.

in this case I would just seat them to the shorter oal and shoot some.

[popper]

Too much crimp can buckle the shoulder and no go. Taper crimp to just take out the bell.

[trapper9260]

I have read this post and the one that post it for the problem.Well to start off with I had the same problem with the same boolit and also the problems that was stated.after i done some checking and and talk with a gunsmith on it. he told me what to do .Like was stated the boolit is bigger because of the way it is design .What I did is drop the OAL to 2.312" and then I drop the powder below what the starter load is. I am usen Unique and at 7.1grs it work ok.You need to check for over pressure and how the case is .What you are doing is when you change the OAL you also change the starting load also .Go below it and work up.As for what was stated about chamber the round like was stated that when you expand the mouth of the case to take the cast boolit that it bell out alittle .I found out that Marlin have a tight chamber and what I did is got a Lee factory Crimp die and use that because I seen what it had done for my 308 and how much it change things.I did not crimp after I seat the boolit I just use the die of Lee and did what was writtien to do and then test the round and all is good.Make a dumbey round to check you OAL and then go below the stater load and then work you way from there slow and check for all the signs.I do use gas checks.but that is up to you.I just looking to help on the problem at hand .Hope this will help. Also I have a 44mag Marlin and had a hard time to chamber also like the 30-30 because of the bell and got the Lee die and that took care of that problem also.

[milsurpaddict]

Ok everyone here are the results and those of you who responded were very correct. The mold I bought Lee Double Cavity Mold 309-113-F for my Marlin 30-30 has a radius at the first ring at .308 and it is only .148 inches from the point of the flat nose, I then seated another boolit that I use for my Arisaka which is MOLD DC C312-185-1R. The radius of this boolit starts at the nose .221 and for .400 inches the shaft of the boolit is .299 and the fist groove ring is .307 and the last one is .312. When I seated this boolit and crimped it the 30-30 round seated beautifully in the gun. The 309-113-F mold has a too big of nose radius to soon. What I think is happening is the .309 radius ring is to close to the nose of the boolit and it can not seat in the throat of the chamber.

So how does this sound to everyone. Does this make sense.

[jonas302]

Why did you seat to 2.43? First step to finding seating length for me is find the jam length start a bullet and push it the rest of the way in with the lever do that a few times and you have your max lenth for any bullet in any gun as long as it fits the magazine and feeds use the seating die to push it in a little more so it clears the lands and now you have a standard to set your dies with

If you find it to hard to seat the bullet with the lever seat one with the die to expand the case a little and pull it by the way mine in that bullet seat at at 2.30 right in the last crimp grove work up your load low as appropriate

[beagle]

Makes sense. Usually with a .30/30 lever, if the cartridge is FL sized and you're having chambering difficulties, it's the size of the bullet nose or else you've buckled the shoulder in seating and crimping./beagle


Ok everyone here are the results and those of you who responded were very correct. The mold I bought Lee Double Cavity Mold 309-113-F for my Marlin 30-30 has a radius at the first ring at .308 and it is only .148 inches from the point of the flat nose, I then seated another boolit that I use for my Arisaka which is MOLD DC C312-185-1R. The radius of this boolit starts at the nose .221 and for .400 inches the shaft of the boolit is .299 and the fist groove ring is .307 and the last one is .312. When I seated this boolit and crimped it the 30-30 round seated beautifully in the gun. The 309-113-F mold has a too big of nose radius to soon. What I think is happening is the .309 radius ring is to close to the nose of the boolit and it can not seat in the throat of the chamber.

So how does this sound to everyone. Does this make sense.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds like your rifle may have a rather tight chamber or throat which should be good for accuracy. If you have a Lee Factory Crimp die I would advise using it. It's very easy to put too much crimp on it with the seating die and it doesn't take much of a bulge to cause problems.