Solicitation for 358 Winchester data

[Marlin Junky]

I was wondering if anyone has a few pet loads for the .358 Winchester using RCBS 35-200-FN and Unique. Can this boolit be shot accurately with Unique approaching 1800 fps? I would imagine a BHN of at least 18 would be required. My goal is 5 rounds inside a 1" diameter circle at 75 yards.

I have a Lyman guide that indicates 15.0 grains of Unique for near 1700 fps from a 22" Savage 99F using 358315 but there's no pressure data.

Thanks,
MJ

[Love Life]

What gun are you shooting it out of? Why would the load in the manual be safe for the 99F, but not your gun?

[Marlin Junky]

What gun are you shooting it out of? Why would the load in the manual be safe for the 99F, but not your gun?

It's not a matter of the published data being safe or not. I'm looking for others' input who have had success with Unique and the RCBS 35-200-FN. I can put 'em in one ragged hole at 75 yards with #9, but haven't done that well with range scrap and Unique. Velocity goal is 1700 fps.

MJ

[KLR]

How long is your barrel?

[Tatume]

I'm having very good results with the RCBS 35-200-FN at 2250 fps using IMR 4895. The load comes from http://www.hodgdon.com/ and is just above the starting load for the 200 grain jacketed bullet. The alloy is COWW with 1/2 pound of 50/50 solder and one pound of linotype per 19 pounds of alloy. See:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?231192-358-blr

Take care, Tom

[waksupi]

I believe you will find a slow powder that fills the case to the bottom of the projectile will give you happiness.

[dragon813gt]

What are the specs for your rifle? I can run it in Quickload and tell you the results. I will simply be copying what the program spits out and will not be responsible for anything.

[Marlin Junky]

I believe you will find a slow powder that fills the case to the bottom of the projectile will give you happiness.

Waksupi...

That's right, you're a .358 fan! So have you worked with Unique and RCBS 35-200-FN? Are you implying my accuracy is not going to be very exciting at 1700 fps when using Unique? Do you have an accurate load that runs at 1600-1700fps using Unique? Number 9 can dump 'em into one hole at 75 yards while using BHN 17-18 alloy but the barrel needs to be warm and seasoned. The powder positioning with #9 is not all that critical from the bench either 'cause (and I'm guessing now) the stuff is so fine, it rolls back near the primer assuming only a slightly uphill attitude. At this point in time, I'd rather heat treat boolits than fill the case with something much slower burning.

Thanks,
MJ

P.S. Currently, I'm only punching holes in paper and knocking over varmints.

[Marlin Junky]

What are the specs for your rifle? I can run it in Quickload and tell you the results. I will simply be copying what the program spits out and will not be responsible for anything.

A PSI and velocity with 15, 16 and 17 grains of Unique might be interesting. I'd retrieve the data myself but my PC with QL installed died recently. Unfortunately, QuickLoad won't predict group size with a given BHN. :bigsmyl2:

22" barrel; COL:2.56"; Groove:0.358": Bullet dia:0.360"; Bullet weight:212 grains (that's ready to fly); Bullet length:0.885" (that's with the GC installed).

Thank you,
MJ

[dragon813gt]

Here you go:
Cartridge : .358 Win.
Bullet : .358, 208, RCBS FN GC 35-200-FN
Useable Case Capaci: 48.373 grain H2O = 3.141 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.560 inch = 65.02 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
+00.0 52 15.00 1693 1324 33406 2246 100.0 1.488
+00.0 54 15.50 1723 1372 35241 2313 100.0 1.455
+00.0 56 16.00 1753 1420 37118 2379 100.0 1.423
+00.0 57 16.50 1783 1468 39037 2445 100.0 1.394
+00.0 59 17.00 1812 1516 40999 2511 100.0 1.366

I ran it in half grain increments since I screwed up the load table settings. The formatting is correct when I typed it but it won't display correctly

[Marlin Junky]

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
+00.0 52 15.00 1693 1324 33406 2246 100.0 1.488
+00.0 54 15.50 1723 1372 35241 2313 100.0 1.455
+00.0 56 16.00 1753 1420 37118 2379 100.0 1.423
+00.0 57 16.50 1783 1468 39037 2445 100.0 1.394
+00.0 59 17.00 1812 1516 40999 2511 100.0 1.366

I ran it in half grain increments since I screwed up the load table settings. The formatting is correct when I typed it but it won't display correctly

The formatting is fine... the pressure data is really what interests me the most. Thank you!

MJ

[waksupi]

Waksupi...

That's right, you're a .358 fan! So have you worked with Unique and RCBS 35-200-FN? Are you implying my accuracy is not going to be very exciting at 1700 fps when using Unique? Do you have an accurate load that runs at 1600-1700fps using Unique? Number 9 can dump 'em into one hole at 75 yards while using BHN 17-18 alloy but the barrel needs to be warm and seasoned. The powder positioning with #9 is not all that critical from the bench either 'cause (and I'm guessing now) the stuff is so fine, it rolls back near the primer assuming only a slightly uphill attitude. At this point in time, I'd rather heat treat boolits than fill the case with something much slower burning.

Thanks,
MJ

P.S. Currently, I'm only punching holes in paper and knocking over varmints.

No, I have not worked with that combination. It may work with the lighter bullet, I only shoot 235 gr. on up. From my experience, they aren't all that particular about WHICH powder they have, as long as the case is pretty much full. Anything less in a case didn't give me my required results on target.

[Bjornb]

No, I have not worked with that combination. It may work with the lighter bullet, I only shoot 235 gr. on up. From my experience, they aren't all that particular about WHICH powder they have, as long as the case is pretty much full. Anything less in a case didn't give me my required results on target.

Ric,
do you shoot the 358009 in the .358? I've got a Savage Edge rebarreled with an E.R. Shaw kit and re-stocked with a Boyd's laminate stock, that shoots fairly well with the RCBS 200gr. FN. I'd like to try out the 358009 but the only way to seat it would be with the base way below the shoulder. Would be interesting to hear how others load this boolit.
Bjorn

[waksupi]

Ric,
do you shoot the 358009 in the .358? I've got a Savage Edge rebarreled with an E.R. Shaw kit and re-stocked with a Boyd's laminate stock, that shoots fairly well with the RCBS 200gr. FN. I'd like to try out the 358009 but the only way to seat it would be with the base way below the shoulder. Would be interesting to hear how others load this boolit.
Bjorn

I have a Bator Heavy, which is very similar, just a slight rounding of the nose is the only difference. In both of my rifles I reamed the throat so the bullets would fit the rifle correctly. You can also run into feeding problems. I slightly relieved the chamber mouth on the right side of both of my rifles to facilitate feeding.

[Bjornb]

Thanks, that's good info. I'm having a new .358 built by Goodsteel (Mauser LR) and I'll make sure he reads this (I'm sure he will anyway).

[Marlin Junky]

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
+00.0 52 15.00 1693 1324 33406 2246 100.0 1.488
+00.0 54 15.50 1723 1372 35241 2313 100.0 1.455
+00.0 56 16.00 1753 1420 37118 2379 100.0 1.423
+00.0 57 16.50 1783 1468 39037 2445 100.0 1.394
+00.0 59 17.00 1812 1516 40999 2511 100.0 1.366



BTW, the velocity with the 15.0 grain charge reconciles Lyman's data with 358315. I'm wondering if anyone has actually field tested Unique and RCBS 35-200-FN beyond 15.0 grains.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Ric,
do you shoot the 358009 in the .358? I've got a Savage Edge rebarreled with an E.R. Shaw kit and re-stocked with a Boyd's laminate stock, that shoots fairly well with the RCBS 200gr. FN. I'd like to try out the 358009 but the only way to seat it would be with the base way below the shoulder. Would be interesting to hear how others load this boolit.
Bjorn

They probably would start with a 35 Whelen cartridge case, but that would be beyond the scope of this thread.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

No, I have not worked with that combination. It may work with the lighter bullet, I only shoot 235 gr. on up. From my experience, they aren't all that particular about WHICH powder they have, as long as the case is pretty much full. Anything less in a case didn't give me my required results on target.

Sounds like you're not very interested in reduced loads.

Have you tried your 235 grain boolit on top of something like AA2520 or H380 or even H414?

MJ

[dragon813gt]

BTW, the velocity with the 15.0 grain charge reconciles Lyman's data with 358315. I'm wondering if anyone has actually field tested Unique and RCBS 35-200-FN beyond 15.0 grains.

MJ

The 17 grain charge was approaching max pressure but it wasn't there yet. There was still room to go.

[Marlin Junky]

The 17 grain charge was approaching max pressure but it wasn't there yet. There was still room to go.

I wouldn't bet on that without carefully working up from about 15-16 grains of Unique. Remember, that's according to QL and not actual field data not to mention that 40K PSI is a hefty dose of pressure for a casting. I'll also bet the pressure curve at 17 grains was pretty steep, indicating that things can go wrong if your alloy is a bit soft, or your powder lot is a bit fast, or your case capacity is a bit less, or your throat is a bit short...

MJ

(P.S. even a 16 twist will handle the pressure better than a 12)

[dragon813gt]

I was simply saying that there was room to go according to QL. But it was very minimal. And if someone doesn't know they have to work up load......well someone has to win all the Darwin Awards ;)