Mosin N. Questions

[Gandolf]

Hi All,

A co-worker is wanting to buy a MN, since he already has brass and dies (he used to have one.) I told him that I had read that the Fins were the most accurate of the MNs, and normally had bores that were close to .308 whereas the Russian ones often had much oversized bores.

Questions that came up:

1. Are the Fins the most accurate of the MNs, typically?

2. How do you tell a Fin from other MNs?

3. Do the Fins actually often have .308 bores?

4. I have heard that the price of the Fins are up a lot. How much does it take to buy one in fairly reasonable condition?

Thanks for any help.

Thanks and regards,

Gandolf

[Larry Gibson]

If the cast bullet driving bands fits the throat and the nose (assuming the bullet has one) is truely a bore rider and given good bores to bigin with there generally is not much difference in accuracy. My Russian sniper shoots cast every bit as good as My Sako M39 Finn. Some Finns had .308 barrels bult most are .311-.312 with a few even larger. Most russians with good bores run .311-.314 with some also larger.

Most Finns are thought to be more accurate than the Russians because the Finns came into this country in much better condition than most Russian ones. Compare rifles of equal condition and there'll be little difference in accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Maven]

Don't mean to contradict Larry, but the Finnish Nagants generally have better triggers than the Russian versions, shimmed actions and heavier barrels, particularly the Mod. 28/30's. Also, the Mod. 28/30's and Mod. 39's have windage adjustable front sights, which is very convenient. Bore diameters vary, but I size to .311" for my Mod. 28/30's and to .312" for my Mod. 39. All are Civil Guard rifles made by Sako and are impressively accurate.

[Razor]

A Finn marked MN will have an "SA" in a box on the receiver..

Razor

[35 Whelen]

The Finn M39's are quite a bit more expensive than a run-of-the-mill 91/30, starting at over $200 and going as high as $500. I at one time owned a M39, and while it definitely was better quality than my 91/30's, I found that with a little tweaking, my 91/30's would shoot as good as my M39.
Here's some groups I've fired with a couple of 91/30's that I purchased at a local Big5 for $79+tax:
This rifle had NOTHING done to it save a little tweaking of the trigger.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Group-1.jpg

This rifle has been bedded and had the trigger tweaked a bit:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/MNGroups.jpg

So, why pays $250-300 or more for one rifle, when you can own one that shoots almost if not as good for WAY under $100?
Regarding bore diameter, according to this site: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSpec.htm the only Mosins that were spec'ed with bores close to .308" were the Finnish 28/30's. FWIW, My M-39 had a .311" bore.
35W

[Larry Gibson]

No contradiction there maven. What you say is quite correct. However, with regards to "accuracy" with correct fitting cast bullets I've not seen any difference between the Finns and the Russians given same condition of rifle. While not double stage triggers many russians are not hard to get used to and they can be tweeked or altered (Just requires drilling and installing 2 pins as the Finns did). Most new/rebuilt Russians have shimmed actions also. 'Twas the Russians that learned that not the Finns. The windage adjustable front sight on the m39 is nice and the rear sights have more elevation notches but those have nothing to do with accuracy capability. Some Sako M39s have western style throats vs the outside neck tapered forward throat of many Russians and other combloc MNs. This makes for more accuracy with cast bullets that are a good fit for the longer tapered throats.

My Rusian M91/30 shoots right alongside the several M39s I've had. I've had other M91s that I've shot just good J bullets in and the Russians shoot just as well with .311/.312 bullets. If one uses .308 bullets as most older manuals use then the Finns most often are more accurate. With the plethora of correct cast bullet designs and correct diameter J bullets available there is no need to use .308 bullets or ill fitting cast in Rusian or Finnish MNs.

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

I've been getting pretty good results out of my $60 '43 Izhevsk M91/30 (Soviet) with cast boolits sized to fit its .314" groove diameter. Looking forward to trying my new $50 '38 Tula one, and the $65 M38 carbine that's shipping out today.

M39s I've seen lately have been starting at about $325. Too rich for my blood. Doubt I'll ever pick up a Finn. I have too much fun with the Russians.

[Dark Helmet]

http://www.gunsnammo.com/ Antique M39s.

[Clark]

I got an M39 for $90 about 3 years ago off a gunshow table.
I got an unfired Ishy 1943 91/30 for $80 a couple months ago off a gunshow table.

I drilled and tapped the M39.
I milled out an AR15 scope riser to fit the hex receiver.
I glassed the mount to the receiver to fit better.
I welded the bolt and cut the stock for the new bolt handle.
It is still too heavy to hunt with, so it is a range queen.


The best group it ever shot:

M39 Finnish hex receiver VKT, $90 from a table at a gun show a few
months back, barreled in 1944.
I made a scope mount for it, relived the stock for the bent bolt, and
that is about it.
The trigger is still terrible, with 40x Leupold test scope:
180 gr. Sierra .311" spire, 47 gr. surplus IMR4895 bulk [more like H322], new Lapua brass,
CCI200, 3.365" with Sinclair bullet comparitor, make a rifling mark
about .030" long at the ogive.
1) 3 shot group at 100m at .4",

picture of my M39 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62580&d=1187562405)

[Blammer]

Where do you guys get brass for them?

I have a 1929 Hex Tula.

[Ricochet]

Brass from Graf's. Made by Prvi Partizan. Same as Wolf Gold.

[Bob Krack]

When your ship comes in make sure you're willing to unload it.

Just can't help myself....

Last time my ship came in, I was at the bus station!

Vic