A micro-groove 700 anyone?

[fatnhappy]

It appears remington has aquired marlin. Is this the death of American lever guns?

http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/industry/130.shtml

[44man]

Well, maybe Remington will put the right depth rifling and the proper twist rates on the lever guns.
Might be a good time to start sending letters to Remington.

[felix]

Reading between the lines on the Remington site indicates to me they are going to begin using the new (German) hammer forge machines like Ruger did after 1995 or so. Time/cost of manufacturing a barrel is cut to next to nothing when compared to other methods, even when using the older hammer forge machines. ... felix

[Morgan Astorbilt]

WOW!!! With the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, you'd think Marlin was doing well enough, to buy out Remington, not the other way around.
Morgan

[runfiverun]

if rem. does to these like they did to the mauser actions you will see the same guns with [corners cut] and prices doubled
any body remember the mark-x's and charles dalys now same guns made in same factory just double the price....

[Ricochet]

Yeah, I've noticed that.

[Marlin Junky]

Might be a good time to invest in Remington stock.

MJ

[S.R.Custom]

Well, once Remington starts stamping, staking, and bead-blasting everything, the price of "pre-Remington" Marlins will sky-rocket. (You'd better stock up now.)

[lastmanout]

Glad I got the Marlins I got, Don't see me buying any new ones.:roll:

[Marlin Junky]

Glad I got the Marlins I got, Don't see me buying any new ones.:roll:

Why the heck not? Marlin will still be run by Bob Behn and it looks like Frank Kenna will still be in there. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions.

MJ

[MT Gianni]

WOW!!! With the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, you'd think Marlin was doing well enough, to buy out Remington, not the other way around.
Morgan

When a company is doing really well occasionally a bridle buys a horse just cause it can. It makes the overall line look better and fools can always borrow money. This may not apply to Remarlin but it happens a lot in today's world. gianni.

[JeffinNZ]

Well, maybe Remington will put the right depth rifling and the proper twist rates on the lever guns.
Might be a good time to start sending letters to Remington.

I agree.

How can they make a .357 with a 1 in 18 twist and a .44-40 with a 1 in 38 twist when the SD's of the bullets are about the same? Either one is too fast, one is too slow or a bit of both.

[10-x]

Ruger bought their first gun barrel hammer forging machine in 1979 for the Red Labels. The O.D. of the heavy barrel 10-22's is how they come out of the machine., takes from 6-10 minutes to forge a barrel. Minor heat treating and turning is all that needed.Steyr has been using the "raw" finish barrel for years on many of their rifles. Most European firearms manufactures have been using the GFM machines for over 30 years.The design dates back to the end of WWII when a prototype was made for hitler's military..............10-x

[BBA]

Am I paranoid being nervous about Cyrberus buying up american firearms companies. S&W, T/C, Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, and now Marlin/H&R/NEF. And there was talk about Springfield. Of course they can have Chrysler. I just hope they have the inside scoop that there is no government gun control down the line.

[lastmanout]

Why the heck not? Marlin will still be run by Bob Behn and it looks like Frank Kenna will still be in there. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions.

MJ

MJ , I don't think there will be much change in the quality or models, just higher prices I can no longer afford :(

[crowbeaner]

I looked at a Marlin MR7 rifle a few years ago and liked it. If they start chambering 222 mag, 250-3000, 257 Bob, 6.5x55, 7x57 etc. on a STANDARD 30/06 action and the shorter two on a 308 length I'd buy a couple. I think the merger may bring out some good guns as long as Remington keeps the QC up to snuff. How about the Marlin action with a Remmy barrel? Wing safety with M700 accuracy. Hmmm. CB.

[Lloyd Smale]

if anyone would make a short action bolt in 250 savage id buy two!!
I looked at a Marlin MR7 rifle a few years ago and liked it. If they start chambering 222 mag, 250-3000, 257 Bob, 6.5x55, 7x57 etc. on a STANDARD 30/06 action and the shorter two on a 308 length I'd buy a couple. I think the merger may bring out some good guns as long as Remington keeps the QC up to snuff. How about the Marlin action with a Remmy barrel? Wing safety with M700 accuracy. Hmmm. CB.

[DonH]

I'm not so sure that any affiliation with remington is a good thing nowdays. Just last evening I heard of a recently-made Rem 700 which had the barrel Loctited in. That does not inspire confidence in my mind. This story came first-hand from a gunsmith friend who has just rebarreled the rifle. This kind of story has become all-too frequent in recent years.

FWIW, has anyone taken notice of new models introduced by Remington in recent years? Only the 504 .22RF is value as an in-house design. New CF models are Mausers from the Balkans; OK as I'm a Mauser fan but Rem. couldn't come up with a design? New shotgun models are the econo (?) Russian jobs. Will they introduce an Italian repro with a Marlin name on it?

[Larry Gibson]

DonH

The M700V I bought in '72 had the barrel loctited in, nothing new there. I'm going to wait and see also.

Larry Gibson

[DonH]

DonH

The M700V I bought in '72 had the barrel loctited in, nothing new there. I'm going to wait and see also.

Larry Gibson

It may be nothing new but I have never heard that they all are done that way. There have been many other QC complaints much worse. Also, not so long ago there was a report that remington was running behind on utility bills at their plant.

All any of us can do is wait and see but none of this inspires me to have confidence in the status of US armsmakers.

[Marlin Junky]

I thought Remington was a public owned company but it looks like I was wrong.

"NEW YORK (Reuters) — Private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management will buy closely held firearms maker Remington Arms for $118 million, the companies said Thursday (12-28-2007). As part of the acquisition of Remington, which makes guns for hunting and for police and military uses, Cerberus has agreed to assume $252 million of debt, including a revolving credit line and subordinated notes."

MJ

[Scrounger]

So by assuming $252 million in owed money, they bought a $370 million company (Remington) for $118 million. Good investment because Remington will pay off its debt over a period of time and until then Cereberus will have a tax write-off. I wonder what Marlin's financial status is? If they are deeply in debt, then Cereberus got more tax shelter; If Marlin is cash flush, then they bought equity to leverage more financing...

[rugerdude]

Its interesting to me that Cerberus has managed to buy up THREE of the oldest gun companies in the U.S. And then there is the amount of debt that went with the companies. Its really kind of sad to think about how these "grand old" companies have gone so far down the slippery slope.

But, I dont think I am going to get really worried until someone announces the sale of Ruger. Its really amazing that while they are one of the youngest gun companies in the country, they are the largest single producer of firearms. AND, they NEVER go outside the company for the financing of a new product. Everything they build is paid for by the products that came before.

I guess we will have to wait and see what all the buyouts lead to, but my prayers go up that by unifying some companies it helps to keep them around for a while. United we stand, divided we fall.

[Marlin Junky]

...they are the largest single producer of firearms.

RugerDude,

What exactly does this mean? Remington grossed 3 times more the Ruger over the last 12 months and if you want to talk about a slippery slope, take a look at how Ruger's stock prices are dropping. From about August '07 to the years end, the stock went from 22 to 8 and over 90% of the stock is held by institutional and mutual funds owner such as Barclays Global Investors and Janus Venture Fund. Who knows what can happen to Ruger if it looses market share to Big Green next year. It's a tough world out there for all manufacturers... even China is having a hard time finding cheap labor today.

MJ

[Ricochet]

I discovered yesterday that Remington is now the sole importer to the U.S. of Russian Baikal shotguns, which they sell under the "SPR" name (formerly "Spartan.") And of course for the past year or two they've had an exclusive lock on the Zastava line from Serbia. What I don't like about the latter two arrangements is that they've trimmed down the imports to only the most popular model lines. Baikal and Zastava have both recently made some pieces I'd love to have that didn't make the cut. No easy way to buy one new in the U.S. now.

(BTW, did you know that Baikal is the old Izhevsk arsenal? And that Zastava is the old Preduzece 44 arsenal that made the Yugo Mausers?)

[rugerdude]

All it means is that they make more guns of more types than any other gun company in the U.S. Plus, you have to include their non-firearm products. They are one of the largest metal forgers in the country. If you use Big Bertha irons, among other things, you are using a Ruger product. As for their gross, they do not have to put any of that towards debt payoff. I'm not a financial major by any means, but it would seem to me that a company can have a lesser gross and still be on better financial footing than a company that grosses more, but has a large debt. When you get right down to it, the firearms industry as a whole IS in a tough position. All we can do is hope for the best and do our part to keep the industry in the black. So, run out the first chance you get and add a new "toy" to the collection!

[Marlin Junky]

So, run out the first chance you get and add a new "toy" to the collection!

I already bought a new Ruger this year and more than likely, I'll return my efforts to providing a good home for vintaged Marlins and Winchesters. I'll probably have my own 'lil gunshop before the end of the decade and let the remaining firearms manufacturers struggle for government/law enforcement market share... which is what they need to do to survive anyway. I did my part in the 70's and 80's to buy all the Ruger and Smith handguns I could afford, now it's someone else's turn :-)

MJ

[lovedogs]

Who knows... maybe now we can get a Marlin barrel with the correct dimensions instead of them being oversized. Talk about prices... aren't all of the guns getting pretty pricey? Take a look at the forecast of the new Win. 70 prices. Who can afford new guns anymore?

[Scrounger]

All it means is that they make more guns of more types than any other gun company in the U.S. Plus, you have to include their non-firearm products. They are one of the largest metal forgers in the country. If you use Big Bertha irons, among other things, you are using a Ruger product. As for their gross, they do not have to put any of that towards debt payoff. I'm not a financial major by any means, but it would seem to me that a company can have a lesser gross and still be on better financial footing than a company that grosses more, but has a large debt. When you get right down to it, the firearms industry as a whole IS in a tough position. All we can do is hope for the best and do our part to keep the industry in the black. So, run out the first chance you get and add a new "toy" to the collection!


Running a business on your own money??? Why...Why that's unAmerican!

[rugerdude]

I don't know if its really unAmerican, but its about as rare as honest politicians or virgins on Hollywood Blvd.! :shock: [smilie=1:

[BAGTIC]

But, I dont think I am going to get really worried until someone announces the sale of Ruger. Its really amazing that while they are one of the youngest gun companies in the country, they are the largest single producer of firearms. AND, they NEVER go outside the company for the financing of a new product. Everything they build is paid for by the products that came before.

I believe that may be because Ruger is the one with the most modern equipment who best takes advantages of 20th & 21st century manufacturing technology. Of course they regularly get hammer by the shooting community for doing so.

[Angus]

I live about five minutes from the Remington Arms plant in Ilion, NY. I've talked to dozens, maybe even hundreds of employees, some current and some former. The consensus among all of them has been that QC at the plant has consistently taken a big steamy **** for the past three decades or so. Cerberus' acquisition of Remington won't do anything worse than what has already been done. As for Marlin, you can probably dismiss any thoughts of an improvement in product line. Honestly have ANY product lines ever improved over time?