Do gas checks require a special base?

[chutestrate]

Or can I install on a regular flat based bullet? I'm having trouble finding a clear answer.

[btroj]

Need a gas check design bullet. It has a heel that the check swages onto.

[chutestrate]

Thank you

[fcvan]

To install gas checks on a plain based boolit, you would need plain base gas checks. Those are generally made from soda can material using dies produced by vendors here. There are a couple of guys who sell plain based checks but I don't believe they are commercially produced. I use CheckMaker dies made by PatMarlins, a Vendor here.

[waksupi]

What are you using them on? If for a handgun, they aren't necessary

[chutestrate]

I have a marlin 1894 I'd like to use them for. This is something in my reloading I have not used, and would like to experiment with.

[44man]

Like Waksupi said, not needed. Only a tough boolit is needed that will not skid past the base and fits the bore.
I hate to say harder and give BHN numbers but it is true none the less.
You will not believe how hard or fast a PB can be shot.

[gray wolf]

Did the books stop using pictures ?

[MtGun44]

Wow. If you were having trouble getting this one answered correctly, PLEASE do not
ask those sources about anything else, EVER. This is pretty basic - THIS IS NOT A SLAM
ON THE QUESITON - perfectly legit, but the sources that can't answer this are
not to be believed on anything related to this hobby, IMO.

I also agree, you can probably dispense with the GCs in your Marlin, but if it is microgroove,
you will probably want larger than "normal" diameter and MIGHT eventually wind up
needing GCs - I have not worked with microgroove rifling (other than loving it in my
.22s) but others report larger diams work well, and many are using GCs.

Bill

[chutestrate]

Graywolf, is there a problem?

[Char-Gar]

Or can I install on a regular flat based bullet? I'm having trouble finding a clear answer.

Any cast bullet reloading handbook like the Lyman covers the difference between gas check and flat based bullet quite well and have for over 100 years. If you are having trouble finding a clear answer, you are not reading the basic instructional material. It would take all of two minute to find the answer in any of the Lyman books.

If you want my counsel, you should buy a copy of the latest edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and read it before continuing on with your cast bullet shooting and reloading.

Asking questions on the internet will not replace taking the time for basic education in the matter. The internet is loaded down with pseudo-experts that may or may not have a clue about any particular issue. Lyman materials are written by professionals in the are and may be trusted. For your own safety and the safety of those around you DO NOT START with the internet for you education and information in this area.

As a group we want to be welcoming, hospitable, helpful and encouraging toward new cast bullet shooters. That is what I wish as well, however at times pointing a new person toward the right learning path is the best thing that can be done for them.

[tazman]

Just maybe the OP wanted to use a gas check on the boolits he has instead of needing to buy a new mold AND the gas checks to go with it. Perhaps someone on this site mentioned that he uses gas checks on plain base boolits( I have seen it mentioned in passing) and he wasn't certain from what he read as no one had specifically addressed the question.
Seems like a fair question to me, particularly since fcvan(post number 4) indicates it is being done.

[btroj]

While a plain base gas check CAN be used it certainly isn't the norm.

The just of what I'm getting is that the OP needs to get some basic education on casting. I don't think expecting a person to understand something as basic as a gas check bullet design is unreasonable.

[tazman]

While a plain base gas check CAN be used it certainly isn't the norm.

There's a lot of not normal going on lately.
Powder coating boolits wasn't normal until some one tried it and found it would work. Oddball gun powder use in pistols wasn't normal until supplies of normal pistol powders ran out and people found out others would work. Lots of not normal things are being tried every day. Some of them work and some don't.
Just because some one wants to try something different, don't automatically assume he doesn't have any idea what he's doing.

[btroj]

The way the question was worded makes me think he didn't have a clue. He didn't ask about adding a gas check to a plain base bullet, he asked in gas checks require a special base. Asking is they require a special base tells me he didn't have a clue.

Out of the norm isn't a place for beginners and to assume that a beginner is asking questions about the minutiae of casting is silly.

What oddball powders are seeing handgun use? Shotgun powders have always been used in handgun rounds.

[osteodoc08]

Yes, they require a special base. Go to the accurate molds website and study some of the outlines of the molds. A gaschecked design should be noticable. Remember those picture games as a kid....show me the differences....that applies here.

[Love Life]

IIRC, Jim installed a normal gas check on a plain base 45 caliber bullet just cuz....

[JeffinNZ]

What the h3ll is wrong with some of you people? The poster asked a legit question. The purpose of this forum to share information. If you have an axe to grind about not everyone owning a copy of the Lyman handbook then I suggest you find another forum. Rant out.

[Marlin Junky]

The answer to your question in post#1 is... it depends on the check and the boolit's hardness and perhaps the sizing dies you have available.

I have gas checked Lyman 358430 nicely because I used an alloy that was easily reduced (on the base) to (IIRC) .356" and I flared the .010" thick gascheck to accommodate the base. After which, the boolit with the flared gascheck in place was run through a larger die to begin the crimp and finally a .360" die. If you don't have the proper dies available, and you're contemplating placing the thicker (.017") gaschecks on a .270-.32 or .375, or .44 or .45 (I probably missed one or two in there) plain base boolit, you may be better off purchasing a mold designed for gaschecks.

MJ

[John Boy]

100490 Gas Check bullet

100491 Flat Base Bullet

GC bullet base diameter are smaller (called a heel) then the bases on flat base bullets ... so the gas check when swaged on is the same diameter as the flay base bullet.
Accordingly, the GC bullet will obturate in the bore the same size as the flat base bullet diameter

[tazman]

Graywolf, is there a problem?

chutestrate on behalf of myself and others on this site who have made the mistake of asking a question others consider too simple to answer, I offer my apologies for the sarcastic and insulting responses by some of the "more experience and knowledgeable" members on this site. Unfortunately they assume that unless you have already invested many years and much money in study and work you are not worthy of an answer.
To those of you who gave considerate and informative responses, Thank you very much. That is the type of response many of the newer members need in order to increase their knowledge and skill in this hobby.

The rest of you are quite welcome to direct your sarcasm and insults at me if you wish. I am always happy to help with your self esteem issues.

[Marlin Junky]

I don't think there's any need for an attitude if someone asks a question that's "too basic". I think the hobby can welcome newbies without offending experienced casters. Perhaps if a question ruffles one's feathers, it's better if one ignores it and moves on.

I see stupid gun stuff on the Outdoor and Sportsman channel all the time but that doesn't stop sponsors from paying big bucks to get exposure by association, nor does it prevent me from tuning in when there's occasionally something interesting being broadcast.

MJ

[Trey45]

I have cleaned up this thread. People join this forum to learn, and part of the process is asking questions. If you don't have it in you to give an answer and be civil about it, you might do better just keeping your opinions to yourself.

[tazman]

I have cleaned up this thread. People join this forum to learn, and part of the process is asking questions. If you don't have it in you to give an answer and be civil about it, you might do better just keeping your opinions to yourself.

Thank you.

[robertbank]

I have a marlin 1894 I'd like to use them for. This is something in my reloading I have not used, and would like to experiment with.

I have a 30-30 Marlin 336 with micro groove rifling and use gas checks with the 311041 Lyman with very good results. I haven't run plain based boolits down it's pipe yet but intend to if winter finally lets go and the wind dies down. I size the boolits 311 but may move up to 313 and just effectively shoot them as cast using the lubricator only as a lubricator. Time will tell if it makes a difference. I used to have very good luck with my 30-06 before I sold the gun to my son using plain based boolits up to 1700 fps with no leading.

Take Care

Bob

[MarkP]

I have read that some are using a Hornady collet type bullet puller to add a gas check to a plain base design.

I agree there is absolutely NO NEED to be sarcastic when people ask questions that are deemed too simple by the self proclaimed experts! I have seen this in several posts.

[tazman]

I have read that some are using a Hornady collet type bullet puller to add a gas check to a plain base design.

I hadn't even thought of such a thing. I find that very interesting. Novel idea. It would remove the need for another mold.
A couple of decades ago I had a Marlin in .357 mag. With magnum loads, unless I used gas checks It simply would not hold anything remotely like a group. Too fast I suppose now. Mostly I shot j-wrappers through it.
There were a few times I shot light 38 special through it for plinking or squirrels. Those were very accurate.

[Love Life]

I hadn't even thought of such a thing. I find that very interesting. Novel idea. It would remove the need for another mold.
A couple of decades ago I had a Marlin in .357 mag. With magnum loads, unless I used gas checks It simply would not hold anything remotely like a group. Too fast I suppose now. Mostly I shot j-wrappers through it.
There were a few times I shot light 38 special through it for plinking or squirrels. Those were very accurate.

Seems like every mould on Midway, in the review section, has the same person going on about how they use a Hornady collet puller to make a gas check shank on plain base boolits.

[chutestrate]

I want to thank everyone for their replies. Even the sarcastic threads taught me a little. I don't worry about the negativity. They have to live with themselves, and if they feel superior for a moment that's ok. It makes me wonder how bad things are going in their lives. 99% of the people here are great.

[robertbank]

Seems like every mould on Midway, in the review section, has the same person going on about how they use a Hornady collet puller to make a gas check shank on plain base boolits.

I have the Hornady bullet puller. I would be interested in how they work applying a gas check. Not sure why I want to know but do.:-)

Take Care

Bob

[Love Life]

I have the Hornady bullet puller. I would be interested in how they work applying a gas check. Not sure why I want to know but do.:-)

Take Care

Bob

I've never tried it, but I remember seeing the method sprinkled all over MidwayUSA in the reviews.

[MT Chambers]

I keep it simple and install gas checks on all the mold designs with the shank cut for Gas Checks, better accuracy in my opinion.

[robertbank]

I keep it simple and install gas checks on all the mold designs with the shank cut for Gas Checks, better accuracy in my opinion.

Makes sense. My curiosity got the best of me.

Bob

[longbow]

I load PB boolits to "J" bullet velocities in my 1894 Marlin but they are all "fat" boolits.

Marlins tend to run large on groove diameter and mine is 0.4315"+. I use minimum 0.433" diameter boolits and up to 0.435" with no problems and little to no leading. My gun is microgroove.

Using a box stock ".44" mould may not work well for you as they mostly cast to suit handguns at 0.429"/0.430". For example my Lyman 429421 casts at 0.429" using wheelweights. That boolit in my fat bore resulted in less than impressive accuracy and considerable leading. By fattening up the boolit to suit groove diameter accuracy improved a lot and leading went away.

Gas checks can offer some advantages and may prevent leading even with slightly undersize boolits but in my opinion they are not needed for the .44 Marlin as has been stated above.

First thing to do is slug the bore to determine bore and groove diameters then choose a mould from there ~ at least 0.001" over groove diameter.

If you already have a gas check mould then I suggest using gas checks. I have shot GC boolits barefoot in my gun but got poor results.

If you have a PB mould, give 'er a try and you may find it does okay but if you get leading and/or poor accuracy slug the bore. A fatter boolit is probably what is required.

If you don't have a mould yet then start by slugging the bore and choose the required mould diameter to suit and you should have no problems shooting PB boolits.

Longbow