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View Full Version : First hand opinions of Ford 3.5L EcoBoost engine wanted



Alvarez Kelly
03-18-2014, 11:21 PM
I am considering buying a Ford F150 with a 3.5L EcoBoost engine. It is turbocharged with an intercooler.

I am looking for actual, real experiences with this engine, good, bad, or ugly.

I really don't need any Ford, Chevy, Dodge arguments/discussions. Thanks!

geargnasher
03-18-2014, 11:28 PM
Ford Motor Company has dependably kept me from starving to death MANY times when nothing else would break down, but I couldn't make a living working on just the Ecoboost engines. My customers that in some cases have a LOT of miles on them say they really do live up to the hype. Efficient, powerful, economical, reliable. Go for it.

Gear

Alvarez Kelly
03-18-2014, 11:37 PM
Thanks Gear! I knew there were a few folks on this forum who would have first hand knowledge. I was hoping you'd chime in.

altheating
03-19-2014, 06:48 AM
I bought one two years ago. My mileage was not even close to what the adds said i was supposed to get. I traded for a non Ecoboost F150 model last year. I'm getting 16-19 mph with this one depending how close my foot it to the floorboards. Pulling the same trailer with the Ecoboost I would only get 9-10 mpg, with the new non Ecoboost truck 15-16.

Moonie
03-19-2014, 07:11 AM
I have had a 2011 Taurus SHO with this engine, it certainly does stand up to the hype. The MPG ratings are not done by the car companies they are done by the government and are very specific in the test parameters. My car does 0-60 in 5 seconds flat, this is in the largest car Ford produces currently. The police interceptor that Ford produces is the Taurus SHO. I have had no issues with my car and yes. I get an average of about 20mpg however on long trips I've gotten as good as 28mpg. I do not normally drive in a way conducive to good gas mileage, it is just so much fun to drive.

My next car will also be a SHO with the EcoBoost, it is an amazing engine. 420ft/lbs of torque with 90% of it available at 1,800rpm? What's not to love.

s mac
03-19-2014, 08:53 AM
I'm also a Ford tech, I see very few issues with this engine. The fuel mileage is fair, but if you can't keep your foot out of it it does drink the fuel. The 5.0 is another good choice. The new F-150's are really nice trucks, like gear said. I wish they would break a little more often.

jcameron996
03-19-2014, 08:53 AM
I don't personally own one but a lot of my friends have the F150 with that engine. You might want to do some research into EcoBoost stutter. Just about everyone around here that has one has experienced it at some point. From what we have been able to figure out they are getting condensation in the intercooler that is then getting into the turbo. The describe it as feeling like the truck is coming a part when it happens.

rexherring
03-19-2014, 09:04 AM
I just ordered a new F 150 with the 5.0L due to two different Ford Dealers suggesting it. The woman I work with does not get over 15 mpg with her EcoBoost and another gets closer to 13 Mpg. I have heard of a friends getting 21 mpg so it's a tossup. I know they have power but the 5L isn't a slouch either.

tengaugetx
03-19-2014, 11:13 AM
Been working at a Ford dealership for 13 years. We sell 90% trucks and 90% of those are 4x4's. We probably do about 2/3 ecoboost engines in those. There have been a few that suffered from the moisture build up in heavy rain but that problem was supposed to have been fixed a while ago.
If you have a heavy foot you wil not get the mileage it says. had a guy who couldn't get over 17mpg. Went 5 miles up the road to the Red River with him driving he got 17.4. I took over and drove back after resetting the fuel economy screen. I was at 21.4 when we pulled in the drive at the dealership. I hear these fuel economy stories all the time. After riding with scores of those who get poor mileage I have come to the conclusion it is almost always poor driving habits.
The ecoboost has been a great engine. Having said that I am in a 5.0 Supercrew because it's a V-8 and they have been almost trouble free. I'm a little old school. Only 5 less hp, the bigger difference is in the torque. Both are great engines in what I would call the best half ton ever built.
PM me if you have any questions you think I can help with.

Alvarez Kelly
03-19-2014, 11:54 AM
I drive an F150 with a 5.4L now. I get 9 mpg or less pulling a heavy trailer. I'm giddy if I get 17mpg on a road trip. Rarely do I get there. I am torn between the 3.5L turbo and the 5.0L V8. The potential for good fuel mileage while still having plenty of power available has me intrigued.

Test drives are next I suppose...

Freightman
03-19-2014, 12:55 PM
I am poor so I drive and old 89 F250 I bought in 89 and except for maintenance and and alternator it has and still preforms has the 5.7 (351) Windsor it has served me well for 25 years.

uscra112
03-19-2014, 03:04 PM
I am poor so I drive and old 89 F250 I bought in 89 and except for maintenance and and alternator it has and still preforms has the 5.7 (351) Windsor it has served me well for 25 years.

There I am in spades! Mine is a 1995 with the inline six. If people could do without all the heavy and power-hungry accessories and critter comforts, they wouldn't need turbos on their engines.

My turbo experience is limited to SAABs. Fun to drive, but a maintenance headache that I don't wish to have again.

This from a long-time Ford man, who spent years working at Windsor, Romeo, Lima, etc., upgrading process control systems for block and head manufacturing. Even my tractor is a 1948 Ford.

s mac
03-19-2014, 03:09 PM
i would suggest that you reset the mpg in the message center on both versions before your test drive, compare with your driving habits.

.5mv^2
03-19-2014, 04:06 PM
I have a 5.4 Econoline E150. Over the winter I get 16 mpg and 18-19 avg in the summer. Almost all highway miles. I keep a running log. I drive with a light foot. Perhaps you have been following me. haha.

ryan28
03-19-2014, 05:12 PM
I have a 2011 with a 5.0 engine. It will do 22mpg in the higher elevations, but only 18 at sea level where I live. Mind you there is almost always some wind here. Big difference. Towing, half that.

roots911
03-19-2014, 08:02 PM
I have a 2011 f150 with that engine. Crew cab with a 6-1/2 ft bed. I have over 40 k on it and avg mileage by the truck computer is almost 17. There are numerous trips to Fla and Mi from Phila and if I keep my speed around 70 -71 I get over 20 mpg. If I run at 78 or so it drops to 17.8. You should know that the gov mileage tests are run with pure gasoline, not the alcohol **** that we are forced to buy. Alcohol has I believe it 20% less energy than gasoline and it is 10% of every gallon of "gas". Only issue that I have had with the truck is with the transmission. It had to have its computer reflashed twice to correct rough shifting. Its been good for 15-18k now. Towin a 28 ft car trailer takes the mileage down to around 12 or so.(Detroit to Auburn run). Like the commercial goes "try it - You'll like it"!!!

enfield
03-19-2014, 08:10 PM
Another new tech service booliten out on the moisture in the charge air cooler problem, involves the 2013 and 2014 so I don't think they have it completely sorted out yet. only seems to happen on long drives in damp conditions and then hard acceleration. had one customer trade in his 2011 for a 2013 because of a near death experience, only to have the new one do a similar thing. we had one that needed new timing chains (stretched) after around 60,000 km, but that's the only ecoboost 3.5 we had apart.

Alvarez Kelly
03-20-2014, 11:12 AM
Thanks for the input everyone. Especially the tip about the 3.5L stalling out. More research needed...

snowwolfe
03-20-2014, 11:17 AM
I was told the ecoboost required premium fuel. T or F?

Last year my choices were either the Ecoboost or the Tundra. Picked the Tundra and I owned Fords forever. My Tundra crewmax is a 2013 4x4 with the 5.7 V8 and my daily gas mileage around town is 17-18. On a trip I can get low 20's if I drive 60. Made a trip to Austin recently and ran 75 the entire way down and back and averaged about 17.5.

Power out the wazoo with that 5.7 and it runs on 85 octane ( we live at 7,000 feet)

ACrowe25
03-20-2014, 11:17 AM
I have two experiences. 1.) my 13 f-150. Maybe be too early to tell but no issues.

My mom drives a 11 Taurus sho --- no issues.

Moonie
03-20-2014, 12:28 PM
I was told the ecoboost required premium fuel. T or F?

Last year my choices were either the Ecoboost or the Tundra. Picked the Tundra and I owned Fords forever. My Tundra crewmax is a 2013 4x4 with the 5.7 V8 and my daily gas mileage around town is 17-18. On a trip I can get low 20's if I drive 60. Made a trip to Austin recently and ran 75 the entire way down and back and averaged about 17.5.

Power out the wazoo with that 5.7 and it runs on 85 octane ( we live at 7,000 feet)

The EcoBoost engine does NOT require premium, but I run it anyway. Oh, and an interesting observation, I get worse gas mileage during the winter, but it certainly makes more power.

geargnasher
03-20-2014, 02:15 PM
Turbocharged gasoline engines, since they throttle on air like almost all gas engines, necessarily suck fuel to match stoichiometry when the boost is up. Keep your foot out of it and your economy will be good. But the power is there, over a long, low curve, should you need it. It's like having a 4-cylinder and a V-8 and being able to switch between the two instantly, which was the whole idea. Ford somehow figured out how to do this while achieving mechanical reliability, which is a feat in itself.

Gear

MtGun44
03-20-2014, 09:42 PM
Ethanol has about half the energy per gallon of gasoline, and it is about 10% of your 'ethanol blend", so expect that
you will get about 5% less power from a gallon (90% *1.0 +10%* 0.5) = 95%

Of course that doesn't even consider all the other wonderful things it does for your vehicle. . . . . . . . :kidding:

Bill

alamogunr
03-20-2014, 10:35 PM
I was told the ecoboost required premium fuel. T or F?

Last year my choices were either the Ecoboost or the Tundra. Picked the Tundra and I owned Fords forever. My Tundra crewmax is a 2013 4x4 with the 5.7 V8 and my daily gas mileage around town is 17-18. On a trip I can get low 20's if I drive 60. Made a trip to Austin recently and ran 75 the entire way down and back and averaged about 17.5.

Power out the wazoo with that 5.7 and it runs on 85 octane ( we live at 7,000 feet)

Strange! I made the same choice but for a 2013 Double Cab w/4.6L engine. My mileage is nearer 16mpg with a smaller engine. I've never considered myself hard on a vehicle and I've got less than 5K miles on this one. Maybe it will loosen up as time goes on.

F-150 w/Eco-Boost go for a premium around here and I have had good experience with Toyota automobiles so that heavily influenced my opinion. My truck is just a 2nd car for us so no hard use or towing.

uscra112
03-20-2014, 10:53 PM
Cruise mileage is more a function of air resistance + rolling resistance + internal friction + pumping losses + accessory loads (I'm keeping it short). About the only thing that is engine-dependent is the pumping losses. So assuming equal states of tune, small engine or big engine makes less difference that you would think.

In a supercharged engine, high test gas actually DOES make a power difference, assuming they have incorporated the knock sensor system that SAAB pioneered in the '80s. Lower octane knocks at less pressure, so the engine management backs off the timing sooner than if the engine is being fed high octane gas. Means nothing as far as mileage goes, unless you have a heavy foot.

Oh, and air resistance goes up according to the third power (cube) of velocity.

Lloyd Smale
03-21-2014, 07:04 AM
using premium in a car that doesnt call for it isnt helping anything. the timing curve of your engine is controled these days by your computer and if it was programed for regular fuel using premium isnt helping a thing. What id does is drain your wallet, hurt your gas milage and in many cases these days just means more ethonol in your fuel.

If your savoy enough to reprogram your computer to advance your timing then premium will allow more advancing without detonation and advancing your timing is no differnt then bumping up your compression ratio and will produce more power. this goes the same for a turbo motor or an natualy asperated motor. Turbo charging in a way does the same. It packs more air into a motor which increases static compression and is why a turbo motor is usually a lower compression motor.

Which brings up the one weakness of a turbo motor. Its most effiecient when its being boosted. When its off boost it acts like a non boosted motor with low compression which isnt as effiecent as a high compression normaly asperated motor. Now im talking turbo motors of 10 years ago or more. I dont know the technology that ford uses.

Maybe today the computers they use can throw a bunch of timing advance in and boost the static compression off boost and then back the timing off under boost. Like i said my knowlege is based on my old grand national days and that wasnt possible then. You basicaly road around with an low compression motor when off boost and probably lost 2-3 mpg when compared to the same 3.8 nomaly asperated motor in the same car. you also had to run premium or the computer wouldnt allow full boost. Im sure to a point the ford is the same. You surely arent going to hurt your motor running regular. Worse case senerio is that your computer will back off the timing or the boost a bit when the knock sensors detect detonation in your combustion chambers.

Lloyd Smale
03-21-2014, 07:27 AM
the major consideration in gas milage is rolling resistance, weight and friction. I chuckle at some who think because on a trip there gas milage is 22 mpg and dont take into account there real world milage. I see a trend in car electronics these days to not give avearge gas milage only instant. It gives you a false sense of economy. If your little turbo truck can pull 22 on the highway but around town when your excelerating or in the hills where your on boost all the time gas mileage drops to 10 your not gaining a thing. Ever wonder why with some trucks a v8 gives better milage then a 6? Its because your not taxing that v8 going up a hill or excelerating around town.

It takes hp to overcome wind resistance and friction and your blocky truck takes as much hp to overcome that no matter what motor is in it. Make a small motor work to overcome it sometimes isnt as good as a bigger motor loafing to do it. Its why small trucks dont get much better milage then bigger trucks do. they still have to overcome wind with there blocky designs and still have friction loss in there motors, tranys differnentials ect and still have rolling resistance. A real good expample is my jeep wrangler. Its got an underpowered 4cyl that requires your foot to be on the floor about allways. My buddys got the same year jeep with a 6 cyl automatic and gets 2mpg better then i do.

I see ford is taking a real stab at it with there aluminum bodys. Will they hold up as well? time will tell if the compromise with durability is worth the extra gas milage. Im a little old school though and just cant wrap my arms around an all aluminum bodied truck with a tiny motor with twin turbos on it. At least not while i can go to another brand and get a good old v8 with a steal body that about matches it in milage. I could be wrong though and in 10 years maybe all of them will be built like that.

I guess i look at it like this. I had many trucks back in the days of 10mpg and 20 today seems almost unreal to me still. Sure id like even better but i also know that developing all this technology today cost money and it isnt even just ford. Chev and dodge v8s are a far cry from there 10 year old conterparts. Me id settle for 20mpg and would settle for 300 hp and would rather see what we allready have produced at a lower cost then keep watching trucks shoot toward the point where any full sized truck is going to set you back 50k. I can buy alot of gas for that 5 or 10k thats added on to the price of a new truck to pay for all that newest and best technology.

I bash toyotas sometime for being behind the times. I probably shouldnt. they do it the smart way. they let the american manufactures dream up this new technology and sit back and wait a few years till they have to incorporate it to remain competitive. they have that luxury because they have some buffaloed into believing there the best no matter what and people will to a certian point buy them no matter what.

alamogunr
03-21-2014, 08:24 AM
I should have added in my post that I bought a Tundra because of owning 2 Toyota Avalons and driving the first 10 yrs/200K miles and We've had the 2nd almost 8 yrs and expect 3-4 more years, both with no problems other than replacing tires and battery.

I should add that I change my own oil(synthetic @10K mi or 1 yr).

With age has come less driving of the truck. I doubt that I'll reach 10K miles in a year. Gas mileage is a minor concern. My truck has none of the fancy bells and whistles that manufacturers like to tout in their TV ads. They are nothing more than a source of problems in my opinion.

Moonie
03-21-2014, 08:33 AM
Lloyd Smale, you don't understand the EcoBoost engine, it is 11 to 1 compression, not low compression. It is direct injected which allows it to handle around 20lbs of boost with 11 to 1 compression. Also, this engine runs just fine on regular but will produce more power when running on higher octane fuels. These turbo's are all computer controlled even the waste gates, and the valve timing is also computer controlled and variable. This isn't your dads turbo engine, this is a true feat of engineering. It is an amazing engine, do some reading, I did before I purchased my SHO, learned alot, took me 2 years to find my SHO and purchase it. It will not be my last.

Moonie
03-21-2014, 08:38 AM
There is a groove cut into the pistons of this engine that when cold the injector bounces a shot of fuel off of directing it at the spark plug. A cold engine runs better when rich (thus the choke on old engines) but heats quicker when running lean. The EcoBoost engine will run rich at the spark plug for better ignition but lean overall to heat quicker when cold. THAT is some amazing engineering...

jlucke69
03-21-2014, 10:16 AM
I have a 2012 4X4 model with 3.73 gears. My average gas mileage for 16,000 is right around 15mpg (probably 20% towing miles.) I tow a 4500lb camper with it and get about 10 when towing. Coming from a 7.3 diesel, I will say it tows well and has the power to pass when needed, but mileage is worse. If I were to do it again, I would have gone with the 3.55 gearing.

Lloyd Smale
03-21-2014, 12:51 PM
I understand there not what the old turbo motors are and if you read my post youll see i said that. What i have to ask though is what are we gaining. they still dont get a bit better gas milage then chevs or dodges v8s do and that technology is costing money. Bottom line is like i said no matter what you do its going to be tough to get a 4x4 truck much over 25 mpg anyway just do to weight, rolling resistance and drive train losses. Now if that tubo 6 got 30mpg and still put out 300 hp id be impressed but all that technology sure hasnt brought any earth shaking breakthroughs in milage or power. Im sure its pretty impressive in a light car like your sho though. thats another one of those 4 door modern cars that would show exaust pipes to alot of the old muscle cars i love. All said and done im still an old school hot rod guy and if it doesnt have 8 plugs it takes alot to impress me. My old grand national did just that because in its day it wasnt just as good as the other cars made it was the quickest american car period. A giant step up from what most called performance cars of that era. Now if ford wants to impress me take a 4.6 v8 and give it the same technology. at least 500 hp would make me smile and i doubt it would use more then a couple more mpg doing it. doesnt do much good either that it makes it most power using premium gas. At the cost of premium its like lopping another 3mpg off it realisticly
Lloyd Smale, you don't understand the EcoBoost engine, it is 11 to 1 compression, not low compression. It is direct injected which allows it to handle around 20lbs of boost with 11 to 1 compression. Also, this engine runs just fine on regular but will produce more power when running on higher octane fuels. These turbo's are all computer controlled even the waste gates, and the valve timing is also computer controlled and variable. This isn't your dads turbo engine, this is a true feat of engineering. It is an amazing engine, do some reading, I did before I purchased my SHO, learned alot, took me 2 years to find my SHO and purchase it. It will not be my last.

s mac
03-21-2014, 01:16 PM
If I'm not mistaken the SHO Taurus make 550 hp.

Lloyd Smale
03-21-2014, 02:51 PM
365 hp

s mac
03-21-2014, 03:26 PM
365 hp

I stand corrected Lloyd, your right.

dagger dog
03-21-2014, 03:59 PM
Under the same use, a small engine that produces big horsepower, will not last as long as a big engine that produces the same horsepower at a lower rpm.

Lloyd Smale
03-22-2014, 05:44 AM
thats kind of debateable. I agree to a point but then a well built small turbo motor will outlast a v8 that is built with low strenght parts and pour tolarnces. Also a turbo motor doesnt have to rev to 8k to make power. Most turbo motors are not high rpm motors. But where i will agree with you is if the motor isnt built to be turboed. that was kind of the thing in the 90s. Just slap a turbo and maybe an intercooler on an existing motor, make good hp and watch it come apart. '

I would not worry so much about the longevity of this ford motor. What would worry me more is the longevity of parts like turbos waste gates, and all the electronics needed to run this motor. You can build a motor that will take it but you also are adding things like turbos, wastegates, and high tech electonics that can fail and being mechanical its just a matter of time before they fail.

What are they going to be like at a 150k and how much is this motor going to cost to be worked on when the warantees gone? Whos going to work on it? Your local small town mechanic? I remember when i first bought my grand national which is simplistic compared to these new turbo motors. My buddy is the local mechanic and a good one. He told me that I just bought a car that he doesnt want to fool with. So it was a matter of bringing it to the dealer or learning it myself which I did. But a motor like this is well over the head of ANY back yard mechanic.

kind of reminds me of watching a barrett jackson car aution. You see them selling porches, bmws and mercedes hot rods for dimes on the dollar. Why? They to go like a scaled rabbit and are built better then about anything in the US and cost big bucks new but they cant hardly give them away when the odometer goes over 50k. WHY? because nobody can afford to fix them when they break and there engine systems are so high tech and require so much specialized equiptment that your local mechanic cant touch them.
Under the same use, a small engine that produces big horsepower, will not last as long as a big engine that produces the same horsepower at a lower rpm.

Lloyd Smale
03-22-2014, 06:36 AM
you need to watch that especially with mid grade. the octane increase is just done by adding more alcohol to the fuel. Premium at some pumps is alcohol free and in my opinion that alone makes it worth the cost. Bottom line is most computers in cars that arent performance cars and in about all trucks are calibrated to run on regular gas. Adding mid range or premium does nothing. If the timing doesnt advance you cant take advantage of it and as a matter of fact higher octaine fuels are harder to ignite and burn cooler so you are going to loose gas milage and performance.

Then you add the fact that there getting those higher numbers using alcohol that isnt as effiecient of a fuel as gasoline and you take a double hit. If you really want good gas milage and cant tune your car for it look for the fuel at the pump in your home town that has the least ammount of alcohol added. But unless your computer was flashed with a program to take advantage of premium which usually is in the case of only performance cars your just throwing money away if you think your going to gain any hp out of it and if your premium has alcohol your not going to gain gas milage either.

Kind of think of it like this. Very high hp and high compression boosted motors use alcohol or water injection to control detonation. It cools the combustion chamber and slows down the burning of the fuel so that more compression be it mechanical or static (timing) can be used and that makes hp. Adding alcohol or any octain increasing chemical to your fuel does the same thing. It retards combustion. But you wouldnt want to dump that water alcohol right in your fuel. It needs to be misted in at a controled rate factoring in rpm and load.

If you take two identical motors and retart the combustion in one, which one is going to make the most power and produce the best mileage. Now take those same to motors and start bumping up the timing until you get detonation. the motor with the higher octain is going to take alot more advance before it detonates and is going to make alot more power. Basicaly increasing compression using high compression pistons, advancing timing, or turbocharging your motor all do about the same thing. they increase static compression which causes heat which requires a slower burning fuel.

Moonie
03-24-2014, 08:34 AM
FYI, my SHO is tuned to 455HP with methanol injection and on the highway I do get almost 30mpg with all wheel drive...

Tuned like this it does require 93 octane premium. The stock tune does not require premium.

Lloyd Smale
03-25-2014, 06:22 AM
is it a constant methonal injection or is it boost controled? How much boost are you making. Are you still using stock turbos, stock injectors? Did you have your stock computer reflashed to control it or are you using a lap top tuner. to gain near a 100 hp you had to at least kick your boost up 5-10psi. Just curious if the stock computer is capable of dealing with the extra fuel it needs. I know to do it in the GN you needed to at least run bigger injectors and we could get by with a stock turbo and a reflash (new chip in those days) that was good for about 22 lbs of boost. race gas would allow for 25. thing i didnt like about my alcohol injection was it worked all the time and unless you really had your foot in it the slowing down of the burning when it was detonating actually hurt performance an milage. the setup i had was boost controled and it came on anytime it sensed boost over 5lbs. that sho must really scoot. Best rear wheel dynoed hp i ever saw out of my car was 392 and that was 25lbs of boost and race gas.

6bg6ga
03-25-2014, 06:49 AM
Lloyd has good points. In my z-28 I had to up the injector size when I increased the boost past 6lbs. I also had to switch to SVO Ford injectors because the stock GM's locked up at 65psi. Mine is also equipped with a boost retard timing module. That is a heck of a lot of power out of that little of an engine.

Moonie
03-26-2014, 12:41 PM
There are no aftermarket injectors on the market yet as the engine is direct injected, the methanol injection is boost controlled. Stock turbo's. It is simply a tune with a hand tuner, the stock computer handles it just fine.

camotruck
03-26-2014, 05:49 PM
I held off for a while because I didn't have any first hand knowledge of the engine you are looking at. But I couldn't help myself

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/camotruck Here's my MPG on what I drive.

Lloyd Smale
03-26-2014, 05:52 PM
be careful with those hand tuners. Many have generic programs and some can run your motor lean at certain rpms. It makes power and get good mpg but can be hard on your motor. Even slight detonation is very hard on rod bearings and tends to lift head gaskets. I dont know what ford uses for head gaskets but just about anyone that got serious with GNs had there deck and head cut of o-ringed head gaskets. I dont know what kind of a program they have loaded in the thing but if you are near a serious speed shop ditch that programer and have them dyno tune your motor. You will see more power and safer power. Stuffs kind of fun though. I shake my head at the guys that claim muscle car mechanics died with the computer age. Just the opposite. It opened up tuning levels unheard of 20 years ago and is why a good 4 cyl 4 door car will run quarters right in there with a mid range muscle car. then you look at cars like your 6cyl sho or a new turbo caddy and they will run with about anything from the 60s and get 30mpg going to the track with the air on, heck even your toshy keeps cool with ac seats. Got to love it. We are living right now in the golden age of muscle cars. wish i was young enough and still working so i could play too. Id dearly love to park a zl1 camero in my driveway to play with.
There are no aftermarket injectors on the market yet as the engine is direct injected, the methanol injection is boost controlled. Stock turbo's. It is simply a tune with a hand tuner, the stock computer handles it just fine.

Lloyd Smale
03-26-2014, 06:02 PM
by the way did you guys see that tv show where they built a old aar cuda up to race a ferrari. the shoehorned in a twin turbo v10 viper motor that put out like 1500 hp ON PUMP GAS. They ran it like 206mph. the ferrari beat it by like 8mph but the guy driving the cuda said he backed off and figured if he had the nerve it would run 240. Now were talking a streat legal car that ran 10s in the quarter spinning all the way and topped out at well over 200 mph. There was no way in HE@@ that in 1970 you could put a streat driven car on pump gas on the road that made half that. Not even close. There were some 11 second streat cars back then but most were running race gas and werent really what i consider streatable. 10 second cars were on trailers at the track. thats what technology has brought us. Aint it cool!!

Moonie
03-27-2014, 01:25 PM
be careful with those hand tuners. Many have generic programs and some can run your motor lean at certain rpms. It makes power and get good mpg but can be hard on your motor. Even slight detonation is very hard on rod bearings and tends to lift head gaskets. I dont know what ford uses for head gaskets but just about anyone that got serious with GNs had there deck and head cut of o-ringed head gaskets. I dont know what kind of a program they have loaded in the thing but if you are near a serious speed shop ditch that programer and have them dyno tune your motor. You will see more power and safer power. Stuffs kind of fun though. I shake my head at the guys that claim muscle car mechanics died with the computer age. Just the opposite. It opened up tuning levels unheard of 20 years ago and is why a good 4 cyl 4 door car will run quarters right in there with a mid range muscle car. then you look at cars like your 6cyl sho or a new turbo caddy and they will run with about anything from the 60s and get 30mpg going to the track with the air on, heck even your toshy keeps cool with ac seats. Got to love it. We are living right now in the golden age of muscle cars. wish i was young enough and still working so i could play too. Id dearly love to park a zl1 camero in my driveway to play with.

Don't worry, I did my homework, this isn't a generic tune, it is very specific to my year, model and octane fuel I run. Also note, this tune was developed by a nationally known speedshop and tested on dozens of SHO's before it was released.

Lloyd Smale
03-28-2014, 06:13 AM
Im in no way critisizing your knowlege or tune. Its just that ive seen a few of those store bought tuners ran on dyno tuning equiptment show so very scary lean spots in the rpm curve. Most of them address only wide open rpm. they make sure theres plenty of fuel then but when excellerating they can have lean spots. This is especially prevelent in tunes for gas milage.
Don't worry, I did my homework, this isn't a generic tune, it is very specific to my year, model and octane fuel I run. Also note, this tune was developed by a nationally known speedshop and tested on dozens of SHO's before it was released.

6bg6ga
03-28-2014, 06:23 AM
Im in no way critisizing your knowlege or tune. Its just that ive seen a few of those store bought tuners ran on dyno tuning equiptment show so very scary lean spots in the rpm curve. Most of them address only wide open rpm. they make sure theres plenty of fuel then but when excellerating they can have lean spots. This is especially prevelent in tunes for gas milage.

Back years ago when I put my Z together there were software programs available for my OBD1 computer and these worked fine up to a point. When the OBDII came out so do the hand held tuners. Having hundreds of hours with them on the strip and on the dyno I can say they are junk. Two ways to go... a Fast computer and or other brands that will piggy back to the factory computer system or the software program and the link cable to hook up to the computer port.

With respect to injectors...... Granted the newer computers will richen the mixture there comes a point where the original injectors are no longer capable of providing enough fuel and at that point the injectors one per cylinder or possibly even two per cylinder are changed. Note* When enough boost is attained and injector size is at maximum and the mixture is still lean then the fun begins and that is the modification of the manifold to accept two injectors per cylinder plus the added hardware and electronics to run the new load.

Just so you know.....been there.

6bg6ga
03-28-2014, 06:33 AM
There are no aftermarket injectors on the market yet as the engine is direct injected, the methanol injection is boost controlled. Stock turbo's. It is simply a tune with a hand tuner, the stock computer handles it just fine.

Back 15 years ago the car club that I was VP in experimented with methanol injection systems on a few of our supercharged Z-28's. We concluded that it was impossible to be able to provide 100% control under boost conditions. Granted some of our Z's were running 18psi and up boost. All it takes is one lean run and there goes the engine. As one that tends to hold onto older technology I am comfortable running premium gas and enough of it to maintain adequate fuel to air ratios under non boost and boost conditions. Its cleaper to run octain boosters and high octain gas than it is to try to decrease detonation of a leaner fuel mixture.

alamogunr
03-28-2014, 07:20 AM
Boy! This thread zoomed past my meager knowledge in a hurry.

I'm bowled over by the breadth of knowledge on this board. Much more than just firearms/reloading/casting.

Moonie
03-28-2014, 10:12 AM
Boy! This thread zoomed past my meager knowledge in a hurry.

I'm bowled over by the breadth of knowledge on this board. Much more than just firearms/reloading/casting.


Yes, but keep in mind that trying to apply knowledge gained 15+ years ago to an engine that is as modern as the EcoBoost is like trying to apply lessons learned on black powder patched round balls to powder coated technologies. And while I appreciate the discussion it does not apply to the EcoBoost engine at all.

Lloyd Smale
03-29-2014, 06:00 AM
keep in mind that my knowlege is 90s era. Fast computers werent around and the only guys tuning with laptops were a very small segment of the real race car guys. It was kind of a black art then. Methanol injection did help with what i had to use. It allowed a bit more boost with pump gas. It was a pain as it seemed everytime i wanted to race someone the tank was empty. For the most part i kept boost at a level that would work with pump gas but then we still had a sunoco staition in town that sold race gas. the nice thing is, like 6bg6ga said, with laptop tuners and dynos these days they can actualy tune there motors to higher levels using pump gas then i could using methonal. My normal routine was to use half premium and half race gas. It gave me about a 100 octain an i could eaisly run 25 lbs of boost and even could sneak it up to 28 for a race. My scanmaster would show just a hint of knock at that level at wot. to do that though i still had to use a bigger fuel pump, 50 lb injectors and a completely differnt intercooler and piping and a bigger turbo. to much heat with the oem stuff to run over 22lbs.

We ran generic tunes (chips then) and many got in trouble because of it. I think thats why every serious GN builders first purchase was a scanmaster to keep check on detonation. Some think you can here pinging but a motor can easily beat itself apart with detonation that you dont even hear. As to my opinion of hand tuners and yes ive used them (mostly on a couple pickups) is that you can spend money better. A good exaust or intake will usually give you more power. About what you gain with them is the ablility to control your transmition shifts a bit better, the ablility to change tire size, and maybe a couple hp if your willing to run premium all the time. theres no majic to them. All they do is bump up your timing and let your knock sensors work more. Bottom line is they will only allow so much and it isnt much.

Like 6bg6ga said the proper way if you really want results. (not just the figure quoted on you turner box) is to go to a knowlegable shop that has a dyno and let them tune your car properly. Making sure the fuel curve stays up with the timing curve all the way though the rpm range. The differnce between a proper tune and a hand tuner is night and day. I had a diablo tuner for my 06 silverado. I used it for a couple years. I notice a bit of improvement, mostly in shifting. I then paid for a custom (generic) tune. It gave a bit more seat of the pants, but was it worth the 200 bucks? I dont know. Well a local gun started doing supercharging of modern cars. he has a dyno and dyno tuned my truck. It left there feeling like a completely differnt animal and gets a solid 1 to 2 mpg better milage and this tune was even using regular gas instead of premium and it made the tuner tune look silly on premium. The whole thing was probably a waste of time for a 4x4 club cab truck but i guess its my only avenue to play anymore.

Sadly he went out of business. Seems most are happy with the hp the newer cars have as is. He did my tune for free but his normal charge was 500 bucks. Cheap if you consider that a tuner will set you back 300 and the performance was night and day differnt. Only advantage a tuner has is if your still under warantee you can put your stock tune back in if you need work done. But i left that diablo tune in mine and the chev dealer never said a word the few time my truck was in there.
Back 15 years ago the car club that I was VP in experimented with methanol injection systems on a few of our supercharged Z-28's. We concluded that it was impossible to be able to provide 100% control under boost conditions. Granted some of our Z's were running 18psi and up boost. All it takes is one lean run and there goes the engine. As one that tends to hold onto older technology I am comfortable running premium gas and enough of it to maintain adequate fuel to air ratios under non boost and boost conditions. Its cleaper to run octain boosters and high octain gas than it is to try to decrease detonation of a leaner fuel mixture.

Lloyd Smale
03-29-2014, 06:47 AM
dont quite agree. Many buy motors like this and dont have a clue whats going on under that hood to make a tiny motor make power like this and especially dont understand what there doing when they try to modify them and can easily get themselves in trouble trying. Many dont appreciate the fact that its guys like 6bg6ga that werent afraid to push the limit that opened eyes of the manufactures as to what can be done to make power out of a motor. Its why you now have 600hp cars that still get 25 mpg. I wish there were guys like him around to help me when i started fooling with these cars. I went in blind and almost cost myself a pile of money on a couple occasions.

I guess if your the type that just checks his oil and other then that doesnt care a bit about whats under his hood none of this matters but a good portion of the technology were talking was applied to making this motor what it is today. As to comparing what makes them faster to 15 years ago. Best look at what the speed shops are putting on them. Other then electronics its the same game it was 15 years ago. You bolt on bigger turbos, more efficient intercoolers, provide more fuel and tune for it.

This isnt some majic break through motor. this stuffs been being done for many years. If i would have had the electonics and tuning abilitys that are now available that 1987 grandnational could easily be made to put out as much hp and gas milage as this ford motor. Heck for about a grand in bolt on parts you could have 400hp on pump gas and still get 25 mpg in a car that weights about the same as a ford truck. Add these same parts and control it with modern electronics and it would sure wouldnt take a back seat to an ecoboost. This was THE car that showed the american manufactures what could be done with technology. A 6cyl car that wooped a new corvette and got better gas milage doing it and could still haul your family.

these same cars today with modern electronic are drive to the race track a race tune put in it at the track, turning 10 second quarter miles, putting back in a streat tune and getting 2o plus mpg driving home with the ac on. If thats black powder technology please let me know where to buy one of those smokepoles!
Yes, but keep in mind that trying to apply knowledge gained 15+ years ago to an engine that is as modern as the EcoBoost is like trying to apply lessons learned on black powder patched round balls to powder coated technologies. And while I appreciate the discussion it does not apply to the EcoBoost engine at all.

6bg6ga
03-29-2014, 07:22 AM
Unfortunately people do not understand that part of the reason the technology has progressed to point where it is now is people like Lloyd pushed things to the up most in order to obtain a lot more power than what was available from the stock high performance engines. Most do not realize that GM, Ford, and others employed engineers to go to the drag strips and have a look see at what the fast running cars were doing the tweeks that were done the changes that were made. The car companies gained knowledge from the sweat of the tuners of years ago. People like Lloyd and myself just to name several have been front runners in tuning and technology. I have personally witnessed engineers taking pictures of the changes that have been made under the hood. Our generation was more than happy to share what we had gained in knowledge in the hopes that those changes would make their way into production. It is unfortunate that some are unwilling to listen and learn from experience that has come at a cost. Lloyd mentioned that he had good experience with the added injection system and that has me wondering what myself and others from the car club managed to forget or to slip over. Had I known Lloyd at the time I'm sure I could have learned from him. I believe we both agree 100% with the idea that those hand tuners can be improved upon. In my mind there is no substitute for a good program which is the result of quite a few dyno runs. In my particular case the Z-28 has been running without fault for over 12 of the 15years that I have owned her. I blew her up in the first year because I didn't listen to people in the know that told me my tune wasn't right. It took a few progressions to make it dependable and consistant. Just my .02

Lloyd Smale
03-29-2014, 07:34 AM
wish you lived closer. Id love to come and play with that camero of yours. I miss that stuff alot. I cant afford it anymore and theres just not much interest up here in fast cars anymore. Dont have much at all to tinker with anymore. Snowmobile and dirt bike technology has passed over my head and i cant even tinker with the sleds anymore or even do a bit of porting on the grandkids dirt bikes. What can be done to make power in them is allready done. Told my son in law is kind of sad. back when i raced half the fun of doing it was wrench all week to gain a hp or two on your buddy. Now the grandkids think its a bit ordeal to change the spark plugs. Almost sad. Same goes for alot of the modern go fast guys. they take there car to a speed shop and have them bolt on some stuff they dont even understand. They will never see the days of jetting your holley double pumper or adjusting solid lifters, setting you own timing, putting an advance kit in a distributor or setting the dwell on a dual point distributor. heck most of them dont even know what a distributor is!! Used to be a speed shop had a couple guys with rolled up t shirt sleaves and there was a good chance youd be offered a cold one. Now its some jap kid with a laptop tuning suburus!!! Sometimes i pine for those old black powder days!!!!!!!!

6bg6ga
03-29-2014, 07:46 AM
Lloyd, your one person that would be most welcome in my home and if your EVER in the area I will expect it. The points you mention in your post above almost bring tears to my eyes. The fact that the youth will miss out completely in what I call the golder age of automobiles. They will never be able to know the joys of porting heads and intake manifolds or simply raising the carb up off the manifold in order to gain just a little more edge on the competition. As you mentioned the ability to adjust solid lifter the beautiful noise they make like music. Being able to jet the primaries and secondaries of a Holley or put in a reo accelerating pump. Being able to recognize that the pink color in the spark is not what you want and how to correct that. Being able to change a clutch or rear end or setting up a rear end. All unfortunately may be a lost art because the newer vehicles are as simple as turn the key and put gas into it. None will ever remember that the toil put out by people like us has made a contribution to cars as we know them today.

s mac
03-29-2014, 09:17 AM
I don't begrudge you guys your fond memories, but it's not always as simple as turning the key and putting gas in your car. Some of use still repair these things, including clutches, rear ends, not to mention all the electronics. It's how I make my living.

6bg6ga
03-29-2014, 09:34 AM
The factory scanners provide you all the necessary information to diagnose, remove a bad part and install a new electronics. Lets face it the new cars simply don't break parts AE clutches, rear ends, transmissions, drive shafts and such like the older cars did. It took some skill to properly set up a tri power or dual quad or a simple 4 barrel carb and get them jetted correctly. Not putting down what you do on the newer cars just simply stating its much easier now days than it was back then. I was a mechanic once myself.

s mac
03-29-2014, 10:03 AM
The factory scanners as you put it, are just a tool, not a magic diag machine. I will say many components are more durable.Then there is the issue of access of all these components. I've been turning wrenches for over 20 years so I have worked on some older models, carbs, distributors etc.

popper
03-29-2014, 10:30 AM
Don't have a ecoboost but a Hyundai Santefe sport 2x turbo for the wife. She has a lead foot and doesn't get good mpg, it's better for me. Taking it to Houston next week so I'll see how it does on the road. My V6 4runner gets 22-24 on the road unless pulling a trailer, ~20 in town. Need to change the plugs now, 100K mi. Last ford she had was a Taurus (3.0 86?) that had 6 french trannys in it but no motor problems. Anyway, the SF is the first turbo I've had, burbles in traffic but has the get up & go when you need it. We'll see how it does. This thread has been very informative, thanks.

6bg6ga
03-29-2014, 02:49 PM
The factory scanners as you put it, are just a tool, not a magic diag machine. I will say many components are more durable.Then there is the issue of access of all these components. I've been turning wrenches for over 20 years so I have worked on some older models, carbs, distributors etc.

The factory scanners are a tool which takes some diagnostic skill to use correctly. In the hands of the average idiot they are worthless but in the hands of a skilled person they can work wonders.

For the record I have over twice any many years experience.

Alvarez Kelly
03-29-2014, 03:58 PM
The factory scanners provide you all the necessary information to diagnose, remove a bad part and install a new electronics.

Sometimes, maybe even often, but not all the time. My nephew is a line tech at a Volkswagen dealer. We have had many long talks over the years. It seems he is the one they call on when the scanners don't pinpoint the problem. Broken wiring, grounded wiring harnesses, brand new, but defective parts, etc. He developed his diagnostic skills on carbureted Chevy V8s. He can think, therefore he can solve problems scanners can't. Dealerships have gotten into a bidding war over him.

There will always be a well paying job for any skilled mechanic.

6bg6ga
03-29-2014, 08:20 PM
Its not hard to use both the data from the dealer scanner along with knowledge acquired as a result of years on the job to make a diagnosis. I have a son that has been in the mechanical field at the dealerships for over 20years. I would like to think the knowledge gained by watching and working with me had rubbed off onto him. He has been highly sought after with dealerships bidding to get him.

If you analyze the data that is available most times with the scanner it will pin point you toward wiring and ground problems....just look at the voltages or lack of.

TXGunNut
03-30-2014, 11:06 AM
To address the OP the 3.5 is an awesome little powerhouse and seems to be holding up quite well. It does have a couple of little quirks that have been or are being worked out. It looks and operates very much like a turbodiesel and has some very expensive components. As I tend to drive a vehicle well past the 100K mark I doubt I'd be interested in one but will watch and see.
To address the mail order chips I love them...but mainly because I enjoy selling engines. Let's just say that chips and neglect make my toys quite enjoyable. ;-) The engineers that design today's engines and write the software that runs them are well aware of the capabilities of the engines but are also concerned with durability. If you're not concerned with durability then by all means, chip it up! When, not if, you need an engine maybe you'll understand.

Lloyd Smale
03-31-2014, 08:03 AM
not nessisarily true. Factorys have to set up a motor not only for performance and longevity but for gas milage and polution too and for a specific fuel. It has to be a compromise of all of these things. A tuner can change things for a specific purpose. If you want a bit more hp and are willing to run higher octain fuel they can SAFELY advance your timing.

If you want say just gas milage they can set your car up to get the best milage with the gas your using. they can change fuel curves, timing curves and transmition shift points. they have to compromise too because just as everyone has a differnt fingerprint every motor is just a bit differnt. A tuner with a dyno can set up your specific car with exactly the correct fuel air ratio, and timing curve that makes it right for the way you drive. Something the car manufactures would go broke doing.

the only place a chip really can hurt is if your so stupid as to buy one and not understand what its doing and do stupid stuff like running **** gas in a tune thats designed for good gas. A different tune be a chip, a reprogramer, or a dyno tune can actually increase durability. It can make your motor burn fuel more effieciently thus reducing deposits and can make transmition shifts more crips with less slippage and increase the durability of it too.

How many times have you see something like say a corvette come out with a new 350 hp motor and the next year the same motor is making 30hp more with vertualy no changes. How do they do it? By changing the tune. I think alot of it is they dont want to invest the time in it initialy so they put a generic tune in a motor, release it to the public and see what the aftermarket tuners come up with. Let them do all the dyno pulls and spend all there money and study there results and change things themselves. Its not just in vettes either. Its the same in family cars and trucks too.
To address the OP the 3.5 is an awesome little powerhouse and seems to be holding up quite well. It does have a couple of little quirks that have been or are being worked out. It looks and operates very much like a turbodiesel and has some very expensive components. As I tend to drive a vehicle well past the 100K mark I doubt I'd be interested in one but will watch and see.
To address the mail order chips I love them...but mainly because I enjoy selling engines. Let's just say that chips and neglect make my toys quite enjoyable. ;-) The engineers that design today's engines and write the software that runs them are well aware of the capabilities of the engines but are also concerned with durability. If you're not concerned with durability then by all means, chip it up! When, not if, you need an engine maybe you'll understand.

Lloyd Smale
03-31-2014, 08:04 AM
I dont know if its easier. More of a case of it just being different. I also enjoyed being able to tune my car to extreams that we only dreamed of back in the muscle car days and the technology of parts being so much higher. I can remember whe i bought my first scan tool. Everyone thought i was some kind of magician becaue i had the nerve to change things. They were all told nothing could be done to a computer controled car and it was far from the truth

things like cam grinds, manifolds ect are just so much superior to the "good old days" Yes cars are a quite a bit more reliable today but the buddys garage still has cars backed up and filling his parking lot waiting to be repaired. Yes these new electronics in some ways make diagnosing alot easier but then there are so many systems that are on these cars that werent on the old ones that can fail that it would be a horror story if there wasnt a simpler way to diagnose cars.

Back in the day if it missed it was either plugs, points or wires for the most part. Now it can be caused by MANY things. I hate to even call a mechanic a mechanic anymore. the days of a greasy old coot in coverals is over. Most of the new mechanics are more technitions then they are mechanics. they not only have to know all the old things like u joints, rear ends ect but have to about be an electronics tech.

Even the normal parts like the newer tranys are so much more technical then when i fooled around that the average guy cant even begin to rebuild one. I guess ill sum it up like this. Back in my day a mechanic learned by ripping things apart and trying to fix them. the better ones started businesses. Now a days very few GOOD mechanics dont have some kind of schooling behind them. I know i surely wouldnt bring my computer controled car to a garage to be fixed if that old grease monkey still ran it.

I guess to if back in the days when i ajusted carbs, ajusted lifters, changed plugs and points about as often as i changed oil you would have asked me if i would like a motor with a manifold, roller hydrolic cam, and fuel injection that added a 100 hp to my motor and never needed to be fooled with i would have been the first in line.
The factory scanners provide you all the necessary information to diagnose, remove a bad part and install a new electronics. Lets face it the new cars simply don't break parts AE clutches, rear ends, transmissions, drive shafts and such like the older cars did. It took some skill to properly set up a tri power or dual quad or a simple 4 barrel carb and get them jetted correctly. Not putting down what you do on the newer cars just simply stating its much easier now days than it was back then. I was a mechanic once myself.

Moonie
04-01-2014, 02:19 PM
Oh, and one more thing about the EcoBoost engine, it is 2 or 4 bolt mains, it is 6 bolt mains...

dagger dog
04-01-2014, 04:43 PM
Most plug and play eprom's just move the parameters of the factory tuning into a different rpm range, "window".

An actual tuner with interface and correct program can move the many outputs of the original factory computer, like advancing the intake runner length, cam and spark timing beyond the factory spec, increasing the injector open time , taking advantage of higher octane fuel "racing gas", cams, headers and intakes.

All most of the plug and play chip does is set the timing full advance to come in at lower rpm for the red light racers or higher rpm for the guys that like to try on the BMW-Merc' AMG highway hammers, it won't increase the advance past factory. They throw on a set of headers and swear the extra noise gives them "25%more horse power" not even thinking about moving air through the engine.

Lloyd Smale
04-02-2014, 06:05 AM
little harse dagger. Some of the programers do add hp. Very seldom the 25hp they advertise but ive seen some on dynos make an honest 10hp. thing is with them to is just by the ability to vary your shift points you can cut time off your quarter mile and with a chevy they allow you to take the abuse mode out of your tranny which allows much stronger holeshots. they also allow you to adjust how quick you want your shifts and quicker shifts are better for your trany. One other handy thing is the ability to ajust for differnt tire sizes. So in my opinion for the most part there worth the 300 bucks. Anyone that is not going any further then some bolt ons for his motor can benifit by one. Granted a real tune is better but that will need to be changed everytime you add another bolt on to make it work its best and everyone doesnt live near a tuner with a dyno.

6bg6ga
04-02-2014, 06:33 AM
Oh, and one more thing about the EcoBoost engine, it is 2 or 4 bolt mains, it is 6 bolt mains...

You don't need 4 bolt mains or six bolt mains to keep the bottom end together. Its been done for years with the 2 bolt.

The hand held programmers in my experience didn't do to much except allow you to turn on cooling fans sooner and or adjust for different tire sizes. When put to the test at the strip the two cars we programmed with the hand held felt stronger but were actually shower in elapsed time. I believe they bank on the idea that no one will challenge their claims of more HP.

Moonie
04-02-2014, 08:49 AM
You don't need 4 bolt mains or six bolt mains to keep the bottom end together. Its been done for years with the 2 bolt.

The hand held programmers in my experience didn't do to much except allow you to turn on cooling fans sooner and or adjust for different tire sizes. When put to the test at the strip the two cars we programmed with the hand held felt stronger but were actually shower in elapsed time. I believe they bank on the idea that no one will challenge their claims of more HP.

With the EcoBoost the improvements are fully documented by dyno, improved at wheel HP ratings and improved trap times at the track.

Lloyd Smale
04-04-2014, 04:00 AM
Im sure due to the fact that its a realitively new engine the tune for the factory was pretty conservative. Youll find a developement goes on and the factory changes things that hand tuners become less effective but its probably true that your getting some benifit. I agree with 6bg on the 6 bolt main thing. I know personaly of guys runing those 3.8 gns that have factory 2 bolt mains and are pushing 600 hp and have no bottom end problems. Any more then that though and you need to step up to a forged crank, rods and pistons and 4 bolt mains. Ive seen 2 bolt main buick, olds and chev big blocks eaisly in the same ball park with 2 bolt mains.

6bg6ga
04-04-2014, 05:27 AM
With the EcoBoost the improvements are fully documented by dyno, improved at wheel HP ratings and improved trap times at the track.

I really hate to tell you this but back when I was real active in our local car club the hand tuners of the day also claimed HP increases backed by dyno runs and improved 1/4 mi times. Its hype designed to sell their product. When approached with finding that their claims didn't hold up they simply said all engines are different.

Moonie
04-04-2014, 09:28 AM
I'm simply supplying the OP with the information they asked for, actual experience, which is what was asked for. Not hearsay or opinion based on other hardware.

Do your own research, I didn't come here to argue with those that have not.

Moonie
04-04-2014, 09:32 AM
I am considering buying a Ford F150 with a 3.5L EcoBoost engine. It is turbocharged with an intercooler.

I am looking for actual, real experiences with this engine, good, bad, or ugly.

I really don't need any Ford, Chevy, Dodge arguments/discussions. Thanks!

You guys REALLY need to pay attention...

popper
04-04-2014, 10:42 AM
Ok, wife's BIL (Nashville) has had 4 Excursions with the triton motor. Tows boats & travel trailer, always happy with them & no real problems, he trades every 150K mi). The 2.0T can get 30 mpg (friend with 1 just did a road trip to OK). Performance is same as my old 2.5L Altima, mileage about the same. IMHO, I'd go with the big V8. Torque will get you up those hills with the trailer and not make the tranny hunt so much. Also a whole lot less to go wrong. Save the $$ for any repairs you need. A guy I used to work with had the big V8 supercharged in his Ford PU(2009?). Thing sounded like it was ready to come apart. Ford never did find the problem.