Why there are Reloading Manuals

[Johnch]

I just got back from the range
I wanted to make sure my new 223 reloads shot the same POA as last years
3 shots just over 2" high at 100 yds in about 3/4" group....yep the gremlins didn't change anything


But the reason I am posting

As I was BSing with another member before leaving
2 - 20 something guys set up to shoot a nice looking Remington 700 Varmit rifle in 243

First shot , it looked like bomb went off under the rifle
The floor plate was blown out and the laminated stock was not looking the best
The bolt would not rotate and looking into the bottom of the rifle at the bolt
It looks almost like at least 1 of the bolt lugs is broken

Luckey the guy didn't have his hand close
The other member and I talked to the 2 guys as they picked up
That is after they tryed to rotate the bolt by hitting the bolt handle with a chunk of 2x4 ( no luck)

We found out Darwin award winner #1 was new to reloading
He didn't have a manual
But he did have his dads old press ,a few pounds of powder and a few sets of pistol dies

So he found a set of used 243 dies and a box of bullets and figured he could reload a lot cheaper than store bought ammo

So Darwin award winner figured out how to deprime , resize and put a new primer in the case ( rifle primer ??)

Then as he didn't have a reloading manual
He just filled the cases with powder to just below the neck and seated the bullets

We ask what powder ....he said it was gray

And we wonder why some people get hurt shooting reloads !!!

And now the other member who is a Trustee is looking at the 2
And seeing if they can remove thier range acess

Still shaking my head
John

[Dutch4122]

Good post, John. This one should be required reading, especially for the touch screen phone generation. I'm sure he had one of those that he had big bucks invested in. Probably had spent a lot more $$ on apps than he would have spent for a book. $25.00 for a manual and a little reading would have went a long way here.

Glad nobody got hurt.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Man! I can't believe people actually do that kind of stuff. They must have never lit off a firecracker, bottle rocket or anything like that. Not to know what and how much powder to use is just crazy. Glad you weren't hurt. I hate ranges when someone else is around. I'm retired and find that weekdays are pretty good days to go shoot around here.

[smokeywolf]

For those two, the reloading manuals better have a lot of pictures.

smokeywolf

[dragon813gt]

These are the people that scare me. I see them to often at ranges. The fact that they exist and you run into them is a problem. This is why I say reloading is not for everyone. In this day and age you can find all the info you want about reloading w/out buying a manual. They are still indispensable and everyone should have a couple of them. But there is no excuse for not going online and finding load data. The manufacturers give it out for free so these situations don't happen.

They should be permanently banned from the range. They put other people's lives at risk. This is unacceptable.

[starmac]

One of the reasons I don't care much for ranges. When I started, I was just a kid, and knew nobody that reloaded. I didn't have a manual but bought a lee loader whackem style and used the instructions and dipper that came with it. These were probably low powered rounds as far as the 300 savage went, but suited my purposes and was way more affordable than factory ammo.

[ShooterAZ]

One of the reasons I don't care much for ranges.

+100, among other reasons. Too dang many Darwin award recipients running around. Our new range wanted me to be a RSO, and I declined for this very reason.

[Smoke4320]

Actually I look at it from a totally different Light.. That was the perfect situation to befriend them and begin to teach the correct way to reload.. better they learn the right way to do things than either go somewhere else and repeat the problem with even worse results or totally turn them off of shooting/reloading..
make an omelet out of broken eggs not throw them in the trash ..
The more shooters we have (safely of course) the better our chances of turning the anti gun legislation around

[richhodg66]

Lucky no one was hurt. Too bad about the ruined rifle.

Seems to me like there are two schools of thought to this; the "there's nothing to it" school and the "there's some kind of voodoo black magic to reloading, so I won't do it" school. I have known some guys who were very knowlegeable about guns and shooting who fell into this second category.

I just spent last week teaching my oldest son how to do it and he left with a good press, powder measure and manual among other things. I have a scale ready to send to him when he gets back home now too. He grew up around it, so he has an appreciation for it, he just never was all that interested in doing it back then. My Dad did the same thing for me. Too bad everybody doesn't have a mentor.

[bob208]

I want to scream read a manual every time there is a post need a load or what load to use. I will not give out load data. you hit the wrong key and don't catch it then what. the other thing about reloading. why do so many think they have to turn every caliber into a mag. ?

[jmort]

"I want to scream read a manual every time there is a post need a load or what load to use."

Agree, unless it is someone with a lot of experience and ability to work up loads and is seeking unpublished off the books data. Me, I stick with the book loads. For new reloaders, it should be "Read the Manual."

[Johnch]

Actually I look at it from a totally different Light.. That was the perfect situation to befriend them and begin to teach the correct way to reload.. better they learn the right way to do things than either go somewhere else and repeat the problem with even worse results or totally turn them off of shooting/reloading..


I had not thought on those lines
But true
Helping them to be safe reloaders would help

But I also see it as
Some people don't give a darn to even try and learn BEFORE they start doing something that they should know can be dangerous if done wrong
And the Done it wrong

John

[smokeywolf]

Actually I look at it from a totally different Light.. That was the perfect situation to befriend them and begin to teach the correct way to reload.. better they learn the right way to do things than either go somewhere else and repeat the problem with even worse results or totally turn them off of shooting/reloading..
make an omelet out of broken eggs not throw them in the trash ..
The more shooters we have (safely of course) the better our chances of turning the anti gun legislation around

I agree with your assertion that they should learn the right way from a friendly and willing mentor. Problem is, these guys have already demonstrated that they lack the common sense necessary to absorb and use the information required to safely reload. These are the kind of people who don't understand why they should have to wash their hands after they do their bathroom business or think think that when they have a flat tire it's not that bad cuz it's only flat on the bottom.

smokeywolf

[Smoke4320]

you can lead the horse, you can hit him over the head .. buts its up to him to drink..

I would still rather try to teach them and hope they take me up on it .. if they don't its on them .. if they do you will create a shooter for life and if he teaches someone else it just goes on and on...

[ghh3rd]

Two things just happened at the indoor range that I used to go to, but stopped years ago because they don't allow reloads. Their excuse was that reloads were too dangerous.

1) They started a free senior night on Tuesdays for 60+ yr olds (I am 60)
2) Since bullets are scarce, they are allowing reloads (even with cast boolits)

I'm kinda glad they have bullet (blast?) proof glass panels between each station :-)

[bangerjim]

Actually I look at it from a totally different Light.. That was the perfect situation to befriend them and begin to teach the correct way to reload.. better they learn the right way to do things than either go somewhere else and repeat the problem with even worse results or totally turn them off of shooting/reloading..
make an omelet out of broken eggs not throw them in the trash ..
The more shooters we have (safely of course) the better our chances of turning the anti gun legislation around

As once said: "Let them blow up........and decrease the surplus population!!!!!!! :roll:

banger

[BeeMan]

Some people will also hop on a motorcycle and roll the wrist without thinking about the implications of only 2 wheels and no body panels around them. Some figure it out without being maimed, some aren't so lucky. Could be the same mindset at work...

[starmac]

I agree with your assertion that they should learn the right way from a friendly and willing mentor. Problem is, these guys have already demonstrated that they lack the common sense necessary to absorb and use the information required to safely reload. These are the kind of people who don't understand why they should have to wash their hands after they do their bathroom business or think think that when they have a flat tire it's not that bad cuz it's only flat on the bottom.

smokeywolf
This is exactly where I am at, some people are not worth the time and headache. These two are better off with cap guns the rest of their life.
We need new people that shoots, but thinking everyone is suitable will hurt more than help. Not everyone should pick up a gun of any kind.

[Charley]

With the relatively large numbers of new reloaders (NOT handloaders) that are starting out, due to price/scarcity of factory ammunition, this seems to becoming more and more common. Had an occurance on another board, a member was looking for data for the .25 Remington. Somebody responded by posting their favorite load for the .25/06. Get a manual, look at a manufacturer's website for data, or a trusted source. Don't guess.

[Blacksmith]

I'll bet a donut that since dad only had pistol dies the "grey powder" they used was some kind of pistol powder. They should be thankful it wasn't a caliber with a larger case capacity.

[BeeMan]

I'll help anyone teachable and willing to learn, but smokeywolf and starmac have a point. I've seen too much that makes me cringe over the last couple years.

[leeggen]

With the computer tech. we have and these morons didn't look on line. Don't beleive they should shoot anything but factory loads. I just can't imagine not looking in a manual or on line to see what the powder was. I just don't think these 2 were wrapped right to reload. But the silver lining is they learned a great lesson without injury---other than their pride.
CD

[smokeywolf]

I'll help anyone teachable and willing to learn, but smokeywolf and starmac have a point. I've seen too much that makes me cringe over the last couple years.

I would be not just willing, but anxious to help a another who wanted to learn to cast, reload and shoot. Providing they possess enough sense to comprehend the basic physics involved in powder burn rates, the ancillary factors that effect burn rates, such as case volume, pressure and heat, boolit/bullet weight/size/drag and so on. If they can understand these things, they can understand the rest. My kids had a good understanding of these things when they were 11 and 12 years old.

smokeywolf

[dragon813gt]

But the silver lining is they learned a great lesson without injury---other than their pride.
CD
I highly doubt it. I bet they're bragging about how they blew it up. And in five years, if they're still alive. They will be waxing poetic about the time they almost killed themselves reloading. Many a laugh and good times had by all. Call a spade a spade and that's what these guys are.

[SP5315]

Another scary aspect to this is you know that he reloaded more than one round. I'll also bet they don't have the sense to dispose of the rest of their "reloads" properly. I hope their reloads don't end up in another's hands sometime in the future.

[Mod42]

Reminds me of a boss I once had.
The guy was a genius, he could explain what happened when the trigger was pulled with complex formulas. He could demonstrate the burn rate for powders with graphs that would make Einstein proud.
All he lacked was common sense. He explained how he developed loads for his 375 H&H to me, John said just keep adding powder until you have to hammer the bolt open, then back down about a half grain. John told me the loading manuals were not to be trusted because of the lawyers. He never could understand why I would not go to the range with him.

[MaryB]

I learned loading back in the 70's. Got back into it 2 years ago and bought 3 manuals off the bat. Did some reading before restarting, still asked a few questions because some things have changed.

[Love Life]

Breathers of the mouth...they walk among us and breed.

[MTtimberline]

Best to have many of them (manuals) and compare them for the same load before starting on a new load.

[gmsharps]

I've taught a lot of people to reload and cast boolits over the years. I always put stipulations on the class. I would bring my trusty Lyman manual in a tell them to read it over the next couple of days and gave them a list of things to go buy. 1 pack of 100 primers and I was specific on what and a pound of powder and told them what to get. We would then set a date and time and they would come over to the house and we would cast a hundred boolits (usually for a handgun) size and lube them and if they did not have brasss I usually had a hundred rounds I could spare of the common stuff. If they had read the manual they usually had a lot of questionsas as to why or how to do something but that was fine and we had a good learnig time and they left with 100 rds of ammo they had built themselve under supervision. If they deceided it was not for them I would buy the remaining powder and let it go. Most turned into avide shooters as they already had the interest and were willing to put in a bit of time to get to know the whys and how's. If they just wanted a free ride and not put any effort into it they were encourged to find other interests that may be a bit safer.

gmsharps

[sthwestvictoria]

$25.00 for a manual and a little reading would have went a long way here.

The fellow did not even have to do that. Most large companies have a free pdf on their website with load data.

[JeffinNZ]

Let's just hope that everyone learned a lesson and that it doesn't happen again to any of them.

"Grey powder". Oh dear.

[freebullet]

I don't see the problem I love grey powder, black is fun too. Maybe they just thought it was a single shot rifle, as in shoot it one single time to blow it up. Wait till they shoot revolvers near you.

Seriously though I would have tried to help them in some way, next time they could kill someone. It's not the drunk that normally dies in the crash.

[trapper9260]

I try to help some to get into it and then they change there mind before they even start.They say it cost too much to get set up. But then they say that there is a lack of ammo or it is cost.I have one person that I talk with last night that wants to get back into it and asking my advice and what i think of somethings.I let him know ,But i told him to get a a handbook and read it.he said he will,the reloaders I was asking about and all I have them myself and I ask how much he will be usen them and all and he explain to me and now i will see when he will come over to look at the reloaders and all.I know there is alot out there that dose not want to use the book.but they are the ones that is lost.I do not go to any range .I shoot in my own back yard.I do not want to be around people that I do not know and for how some are with guns.I hear too many stories about what is posted on here or other ones that I do not care for.

[6bg6ga]

I can see it now...legislation and tests to teach people the proper loading techniques. A fee to take a course and a test and another fee and then of course you purchase all the reloading stuff from the government reloading center. Naturally you'll be limited to two boxes a year.

[PbHurler]

I can see it now...legislation and tests to teach people the proper loading techniques. A fee to take a course and a test and another fee and then of course you purchase all the reloading stuff from the government reloading center. Naturally you'll be limited to two boxes a year.

Yep,
The government to step in & protect the public from the very dangerous, underground practice of, oh my God; RELOADING!

[btroj]

Some of my powder has an almost greenish hue to it, is that faster or slower?

Man, this goes to show that some of the new reloaders just aren't cut out for it. Do the research, know what you are doing, and proceed cautiously.

Wonder how many more reloads he will shoot?

[762 shooter]

Since the craze, several acquaintances have asked about reloading. Two out of ten have followed through. Most people do not want to spend money to save money.

They would rather rent than own.

762

[gmsharps]

Yep,
The government to step in & protect the public from the very dangerous, underground practice of, oh my God; RELOADING!

This is being done in Germany already. You have to take a certified reloading class to be able to buy components ie powder and primers, and you are limited to a certain amount of powder per year. If you go over your allocation you have to justify the need to the government.

gmsharps

[Love Life]

This is being done in Germany already. You have to take a certified reloading class to be able to buy components ie powder and primers, and you are limited to a certain amount of powder per year. If you go over your allocation you have to justify the need to the government.

gmsharps

That will probably happen here.

Like Char-Gar has said many times, reloading isn't for everybody. If you can't put together safe and accurate ammo with nothing but a manual, press, dies, correct powder, etc WITHOUT youtubing it or asking "Why did my bullet seat so deep?" then you probably shouldn't be reloading. No worries though, because nobody will tell you that. They will be afraid to offend you so you get to possibly injure someone at the range.

[Bad Water Bill]

Some of my powder has an almost greenish hue to it, is that faster or slower?

Green = go fast.

Red stuff = sloooow.

Now you know all you need to call yourself an ED JAM I KATED relodr.:kidding:

[LeftyDon]

Makes you wonder why powder isn't color coded for each caliper? Green for 30-06, pink for .223 etc., but then there's color blind reloaders and we'd have to have ADA packaging. Square and green for 30-06 , hexagon - salmon color for .45 LC etc. :bigsmyl2: :razz:

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Let's just hope that everyone learned a lesson and that it doesn't happen again to any of them.

"Grey powder". Oh dear.
Yeah, think I'll throw out all of my grey powder.

[9w1911]

isnt the aluminum can 4227 grey? maybe he topped it off with that. WOW 40grns of 4227 hahaha jeez

I like reading these stores to be honest, not because I relish the misfortune of others, if its based on Darwinian ignorance I have to laugh but it makes me feel my process in reloading is not all that bad.
To me I just say how can you not have a manual. I actually gave away my Lyman 47th to a friend of my girlfriend he didnt have a manual. At least he can read and gets his data from the web.
Now when I would frequent THR.org there would always be a guy who would want 4831 loads for a 45acp because thats all the powder they had, that just tweeks me. I also agree with mentors who will not help anyine until AFTER they read a manual.

**that said I love manuals and like powder primers and lead I cannot have too many!

[Love Life]

I use grey powder with this cartridge. While we are talking, can anybody tell my why my bullet is seating this way? I swear I adjusted them per the manual and watched like 3,000,000 youtube videos. I have already seated 10,000,000 of the exact same bullet with this die and haven't made any adjustments...

[gray wolf]

I agree with your assertion that they should learn the right way from a friendly and willing mentor. Problem is, these guys have already demonstrated that they lack the common sense necessary to absorb and use the information required to safely reload. These are the kind of people who don't understand why they should have to wash their hands after they do their bathroom business or think think that when they have a flat tire it's not that bad cuz it's only flat on the bottom.

smokeywolf
I think it's important to just bite the bullet ( pun ) and fess up to the fact that different people have different abilities to absorb information. Some score higher than others and some do not score at all. Some people never get the memo (ever )

Let me add it's getting worse as the days go by. People are being taught there is no wrong way it's just someones different approach to a problem. Well excuse me but don't let your approach ruin my day or my kids day. I see no reason to make excuses for foolishness and blatant stupidity.

You want to be a dumb ASSS ? then go do it over there, or sit down, shut up, and learn something.
I said it before and I will say it again for those in the back row that don't here to good, I am really concerned about shooting anymore next to people I don't no. Almost makes a gut want to have people fill out a questionnaire before they step up to the line.

Sorry but I don't fall into the group that says: OH we have to be helpful and give the idiots all the info they need to continue there journey to further there stupidity. While expecting others to do for them.

It ain't Kansas anymore Alice, and people do not have the same critical thinking skills they had years ago.
They just do not. Show me you made an attempt, even a small one and I am first in line with the help.

I read a few other forums and the questions are literally sickening.
Here is an honest to goodness sample of a few questions:
I need a new belt, what do you think i should get ?
( are you kidding me ? you never bought a belt for yourself )

I use hope's # 9 to clean my 4" barrel pistol, can I use it for my 6" also ?
( yes you can, and you can eat chicken with a fork and it will work for meat also )

My 22 ruger target rifle has a custom chamber and they say not to use 22LR stingers cause they won't fit in the chamber, should I try them anyway ?
( Sorry, no help for you either )

I have a bla, bla, pistol what holster should I get ?
( how the helll do I know what holster you should get )

What we need is a new load manual that indexes all the Darwin awards, one section for ignorance and one section for just plain stupid, with a sub section for, excuse me I want to do it my way.

[Smoke4320]

I use grey powder with this cartridge. While we are talking, can anybody tell my why my bullet is seating this way? I swear I adjusted them per the manual and watched like 3,000,000 youtube videos. I have already seated 10,000,000 of the exact same bullet with this die and haven't made any adjustments...

if you ever want to sell that German "around the corner" shooting rifle call me :)

[starmac]

Considering a manual cost less than any one component of reloading, or even any piece of equipment to reload with. Why would it not be a guys first purchase to see if it is even something he wants to think about doing??

I started out with a lee loader and no manual....... it worked for my purpose. I then took several years off using factory ammo before starting up with loading again. My first purchase was several manuals, one reason was to get a better idea of what equipment I would have to have to get started.

[Char-Gar]

Actually I look at it from a totally different Light.. That was the perfect situation to befriend them and begin to teach the correct way to reload.. better they learn the right way to do things than either go somewhere else and repeat the problem with even worse results or totally turn them off of shooting/reloading..
make an omelet out of broken eggs not throw them in the trash ..
The more shooters we have (safely of course) the better our chances of turning the anti gun legislation around

I don't know who you are, how old you are, or what your life experiences are, but I beg to differ with your analysis and approach to the subject at hand. I will admit your approach sounds noble, humain and believes the best about others, but I have lived long enough, worked with people long enough to understand a few simple things about the human creature, to wit;

1. Fools can't be taught anything as their lack of critical thinking skills prevents it. Some may be trainable, but none are teachable.

2. The folks with their grey powder will never be an asset to the shooting community. To the contrary they will be a liability.

3. I don't want to befriend fools, it might rub off in some way that hurts or injuries me or something I care about. Fools are to be avoided and not befriended.

4. I am certain God loves them in some shape or form, but that is just another reason why I fall short in my god like attributes. I can live with that.

[Geraldo]

When I bought my initial reloading setup, I paid more at a local shop that I would have from a catalog. The reason I did so was that the shop owner told me that he'd teach me how to use it after they closed one night. Not that I can't or don't read, but I really need to see some things done before I do them. If I were starting now I'd read a lot and watch YouTube videos.

The Great Panic has no doubt produced a number of people who reload who really shouldn't. The question of what happened to their excess ammo is a good reason why I will never again shoot reloads that I didn't come out of my shop.

[AKbushman49]

Reminds of a conversation I had with a "kid", who was bragging on how he was reloading. I asked what he was reloading 30-06 said he. 45 gr of Blue Dot yup 165 gr bullet. I Gasped and asked where he was gonna test this cause I didn't want to be close. Told him BD was a shotgun/pistol powder, #1 way too fast #2 way too much for that round, #3 he should buy a reloading manual and "READ IT", #4 make sure his life insurance was paid up. This happened in a sporting goods store/ reloading section. The clerks just gave me a dirty look cause I probably cost them a sale. Did see the "kid" about a month later, black eyes, both hands injured, complaining about how he was gonna sue Remington. Another candidate for the "DARWIN AWARD". Grant you this was sometime ago before internet days, but still you can show them the path to wisdom, but can't make them learn.
bushman

[mold maker]

Those guys had no reason to know they were stupid, till the rifle blew its bottom.
You don't know, what you don't know, till you find it out.
The older I get, the dumber I find, I was.

[JimA]

Those guys had no reason to know they were stupid, till the rifle blew its bottom.
You don't know, what you don't know, till you find it out.
The older I get, the dumber I find, I was.

To quote Mark Twain;

“Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement.”

[starmac]

Those guys had no reason to know they were stupid, till the rifle blew its bottom.
You don't know, what you don't know, till you find it out.
The older I get, the dumber I find, I was.

Common sense would have told them they were stupid, without an explosion.

[Cmm_3940]

Green = go fast.

Red stuff = sloooow.

Now you know all you need to call yourself an ED JAM I KATED relodr.:kidding:


Gee, Bill,

Does that mean this powder I have with the green flecks in it is faster than the one with the red flecks? Since the red one is slow, can I use it for magnum rifle loads? And where does the blue one fit in?

[9w1911]

hahahaha 45gr of Blue Dot!!!!

[Blacksmith]

Since the craze, several acquaintances have asked about reloading. Two out of ten have followed through. Most people do not want to spend money to save money.

They would rather rent than own.

762

The ones that get me are the guys that say the equipment costs to much, or they just don't have enough time or any other excuse. Then they turn around and say "You know ammo is scarce lately would you load some ammo for me, I've got some brass."

[Bad Water Bill]

The ones that get me are the guys that say the equipment costs to much, or they just don't have enough time or any other excuse. Then they turn around and say "You know ammo is scarce lately would you load some ammo for me, I've got some brass."

Sorry guys but I do not have enough insurance to cover both yours and my shooting my handloads.

[JeffinNZ]

Cha-Gar: I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt first until I get a handle on it. You could very well be right but the guy could have had a bum steer. The worrying thing is that folks who make mistakes like this can hurt not just themselves. They let others shoot the loads too.

[Char-Gar]

Cha-Gar: I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt first until I get a handle on it. You could very well be right but the guy could have had a bum steer. The worrying thing is that folks who make mistakes like this can hurt not just themselves. They let others shoot the loads too.

Jeff...I most often give folks the benefit of the doubt also. But in the case at hand, there is no doubt in my mind, but a certainty that the fellow in question is a fool. There is an old English common law doctrine that has wormed it's way into American law and I suppose New Zealand law also as we both have common antecedents. The doctrine is called "res ipsa loquiter". This Latin maxim translates as, "the thing speaks for itself", meaning no further proof is required before it is an acknowledged fact. The lad in question was/is a res ipsa fool, to be avoided. Water runs down hill and fools load rifle rounds full of unknown grey powder! There is no doubt in my mind about the call. I may be intolerant, but I am not uncertain! :-)

[Petrol & Powder]

100038

[gray wolf]

I just read this on a forum:
I need a load for Unique, 44 special and a 240 LSWC bullet.
Is that not in 99% of all the load books. ????
Then the follow up went like this:
I have an old alliant booklet that list what looks like a heavy load.
Can I reduce it ?

I think I want my own private shooting range and it would be by invitation only.

[Mk42gunner]

...
We found out Darwin award winner #1 was new to reloading
He didn't have a manual
But he did have his dads old press ,a few pounds of powder and a few sets of pistol dies

So he found a set of used 243 dies and a box of bullets and figured he could reload a lot cheaper than store bought ammo

So Darwin award winner figured out how to deprime , resize and put a new primer in the case ( rifle primer ??)

Then as he didn't have a reloading manual
He just filled the cases with powder to just below the neck and seated the bullets

We ask what powder ....he said it was gray

...

I added the bold to the above quote.

The really scary part is that Darwin award winner #1 probably threw away his dad's reloading manual.

-----

The post about him having more rounds left is why there is so many people that will not shoot other people's reloads.

I have heard people I know well quoting loads with so much powder that it will not fit into the case. Needless to say I don't shoot their loads.

A memory is a terrible thing to waste trying to remember just how much powder you put in that batch of loads, which is why I write it on the box, sometimes even on the brass itself.

Robert

[ghh3rd]

Hopefully once the shortage ends, there will be a lot of surplus equipment for sale cheap.... just don't buy the powder, they may have been blending some to get a nicer color :-\

[Bullshop]

Some of the comments remind me of what a city fella said to me once about my job as a timber faller, " how hard can it be if a beaver can do it"
Sometimes I suffer shooter loneliness and yearn for someone to shoot with, until I read stuff like this about shooting at public ranges.

[btroj]

My wife and daughter cringed when I read this. They don't reload but they know enough to diner stand powders differ and just saying it was grey is bad.

I tend to think Char-gar was right on. These guys aren't trainable. Hopefully they give up reloading.

[country gent]

My instructor in machine trades told us the first day of class "Knowledge is here free for the taking you bring the container". Well some had semi trailers the next day others teaspoons figuratively speaking. Having helped new reloaders get started, My children in alot of thier endevors, Juiniors in High Power rifle, and apprentices in the tool and Die trade I can honestly say some want to learn and take every bit of knowledge you offer asking for more, Some are slower maybe even struggle but the desire is there, Some want to do enough to just get by ( in the trade grades /evaluations were a part of pay raises thru apprenticeship along with hours) and no more. Alot of todays generation wants it right now not learning and gaining experience as they go. You can tell the ones that want to learn as they are listening asking the correct questions and paying attention. Alot today arent willing or know what it means to be responsible for thier actions. Ill help anyone who wants to learn, even those that struggle, but those of the last group I just cant seem to work with very well.
ANd another thing to think about is in a rifle failure the people to the sides are at as much or more risk.

[AlaskanGuy]

This is why I just love our range here in Cordova.... Most of the time, I have the entire range to myself... I can dig, shoot, scrounge, and the only company is my purty wife or son..... Rarely do I have to share with anybody.... especially in the winter... summer, if I get there early, there wont be anybody around till 2-3 in the afternoon..... safest place in town is the range.. lol

I carry reloading manuals with me to the range... and have at least a dozen manuals in my ipad.... I sometimes share loads after church over coffee and cookies after service... dang handy to have those manuals in the ipad... I am too chicken to develope anything unless I have a starting point of some sort....

AG