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jim4065
12-26-2007, 02:54 PM
God forgive me - but it seems like I'm way too anal about this stuff. I told one of my staff about the trapdoor that I'm waiting on, and said "It fires a 45-70 cartridge." He corrected me by saying "You mean it fires a 45-70 loaded cartridge." I told him all cartridges are loaded - though some may be duds or blanks. How can you have an "unloaded cartridge"? :-?

carpetman
12-26-2007, 03:00 PM
How can you have an unloaded cartridge? Usally when you pull the trigger it becomes one.

jim4065
12-26-2007, 03:20 PM
No - it stops being a cartridge and becomes an empty shell. Doesn't "cartridge" mean powder and bullet, with either a paper casing or a metallic/plastic shell casing? After being discharged it's no more a "cartridge" than a "bullet" is a "cartridge. :roll:

MT Gianni
12-26-2007, 05:17 PM
I understand a loaded cartridge to be chambered in a gun and an unloaded one would then be out of the gun? Nah, Just tell him he is wrong and way too anal. Gianni

mike in co
12-26-2007, 05:19 PM
jim ...you have it right...he has it wrong.

from our friends at SAAMI:

CARTRIDGE
A single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles. Also applies to a shotshell.


CARTRIDGE CASE
The main body of a single round into which other components are inserted to form a cartridge. Usually refers to centerfire and rimfire cartridges. Serves as a gas seal during firing of the cartridge. Usually made of brass, steel, copper, aluminum or plastic Also referred to as a shellcase.

mike in co
THE COLORADO BRASS COMPANY

Larry Gibson
12-26-2007, 06:10 PM
The person on your staff is incorrect as mentioned by others. The U.S. Military definition of "cartridge as found in TM 9-1305, Small Arms Ammunition is; "Cartridge. A complete assembly consisting of all the components necessary to fire a weapon once; i.e., the cartridge case, primer, propellant, and bullet or shot."

A "cartridge case" is defined as; "A container designed to hold an ammunition primer and propellant to which a bullet may be affixed. Its profile and size conform to that of the chamber of the weapon in which the cartridge is fired.

Larry Gibson

montana_charlie
12-26-2007, 06:34 PM
How can you have an unloaded cartridge? Usally when you pull the trigger it becomes one.No - it stops being a cartridge and becomes an empty shell.
Agreed, however the term 'spent cartridge' is not a rarely used one.
CM

13Echo
12-26-2007, 06:36 PM
You are correct. A cartridge is the whole shebang before it goes bang.

I have the same problem with caliber. Caliber, according to the dictionary is the inside diameter of a tube or gun barrel or the diameter of a bullet or projectile. A 45-70 is a cartridge not a caliber. Its caliber is 45. I know this is a losing battle, it has become common useage, and I'm being anal but it still bugs me. Funny, though, it doesn't bother me at all to call a .45 Colt a Long Colt.

By the way, after 12 years in the Army I cannot, to this day, ever ever ever call anything under 20mm a gun.

Jerry Liles

timkelley
12-26-2007, 06:58 PM
Basic Training was 43 years ago and I still have to think on it to say "gun".:roll:

Ricochet
12-26-2007, 07:34 PM
This is my rifle,
This is my gun.
This is for fighting,
This is for fun.
:mrgreen:

charger 1
12-26-2007, 08:24 PM
This is my rifle,
This is my gun.
This is for fighting,
This is for fun.
:mrgreen:


Hey did ya see the episode of family guy where Stewie does that with actions and all? Frikin kills me

S.R.Custom
12-26-2007, 11:45 PM
That's where you blink a couple of times and say:

"How 'bout I shoot you half a dozen times with these... bullet tip thingies. You can call whatever the #$@* you want."

Morgan Astorbilt
12-27-2007, 03:28 AM
To paraphrase someone who defiled a perfectly good cigar in the oval office: " It all depends on what "Fired" is" [smilie=1:

A BULLET isn't "fired".

A GUN can be "fired".

But actually:

A CARTRIDGE is fired, and propells a bullet down the barrel. It then becomes an empty cartridge case. :Fire:
Morgan

Jim
12-27-2007, 08:12 AM
I love this forum.

RBak
12-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Basic Training was 43 years ago and I still have to think on it to say "gun".:roll:

Yep, same here!

I finished Basic Training in July, 1957 and retired from the US Army in Mar.1980 and it is pretty hard for me to say "Gun" too, unless I'm refering to a Artillery piece.

After double-timing about an hour, with full combat gear and with your M1 over your head, yelling at the top of your lungs..........
"This is my Rifle,
and I dearly love it!
you can have your ol' civilian life,
ya know where to shove it!
you've taught me bad things,
and now I pay the price,
in Uncle Sam's Army, that **** ain't very nice!
you lied when you said, a rifle was a gun,
And if I hadn't listen, I wouldn't have to run!"...

After doing this for a time or two, it gives the term "gun" something of a special meaning, if ya get my drift....and like noclue said, you will have a hard time even saying gun.
Plus, everytime you say it, you'll be looking over your shoulder for that #$)&% idiot of a Drill Sergeant!

Cartridge, to me...when it's loaded it's a round. when it's empty it's brass.

Or, (from the dictionary) a container for a complete charge, to include charge and an ignition devise, for a firearm.

To me, this plainly says that there is a Cartridge, and it becomes a Cartridge Case, or empty charged once it's fired....

I agree, someone is a bit anal about something.

Russ...