452423 in 45 ACP

[bearstopper]

I have posted previously about my success with this bullet in my 625 JM in AR brass. On a whim at a recent gun show I decided to try my first cheap gun. Bought a Hi Point carbine in 45 acp, specifically the 4595TS model. I bought it mainly to use as a good cast boolit plinker just due to so many good reports on accuracy and reliability. Ran some 452374 with excellent results and on a whim decided to load up some 452423 in acp brass to see if they would feed. Total success and they were the most accurate load yet including better than 230 gr XTP's and they fed flawlessly. Co witnessed a TRS-25 and accuracy was outstanding. On mine the trigger is crisp, but heavy and while the gun is not exactly a thing of beauty, the newer stock style is a huge improvement over the older version and the gun feels and handles great. I have a few expensive tactical/assault rifles and while they are awesome, I am having a heck of a lot of fun with this as the caliber is so friendly to casting/reloading and it works so well all while being extremely cheap. I have even warmed up to the looks. Can't believe it feeds Keith boolits. Don't be too cool to try one as I doubt you can have more fun for under $300!

[Big Steve]

Man Bearstopper, I been thinking hard about one of this in 45 acp. I think you just made up my mind for me.

[harley45]

I've been itching to try this Boolit on hogs!

[oger]

I use that boolit in every 45 acp I own it works well in all and is by far the best shooter in my XDS. Haven't used in any of the rimed cases yet mainly because I only have a 2 cavity mold and everything I cast goes to the acps.

[Char-Gar]

I have been using 452423 in the 45 ACP round in 1911 pistols for over 50 years. I started this when Elmer Keith and all others said it would not feed in the autopistol. I tried it out of necessity and it worked.

This bullet was once as dead as the Doo-Doo bird, but is making a comeback of late.

But honesty forces me to say, there are better options now for the fellow wanting a blunt nose cast bullet in his 45 autopistol or carbine. Better from the standpoint of reliable feeding. It is not accurate to say that 452423 will feed without a problem in all 45 autopistols. It is accurate to say it will feed without a problem in most 45 autopistols and I have used it in several dozen. However, the sharp edge on the outside of the meplat will hit the barrel throat ramp on the way into the chamber. Depending on the barrel throating angle, polish and bullet hardness this may or may not be a problem.

The advent of Cowboy Action shooting with that sports need for lighter cast bullet to reduce recoil in the 45 Long Colt round, coupled with a wide flat nose to take down steel targets has produced some great cast bullet designs that work better than the old Keith design (452423).

The fellow looking for a 230 - 240 grain 45 cal bullet with a big meplat for the autopistol or carbine can do much better these days than the old Keith design.

Years ago a designed was worked up on this board called the 45 BCM which was a modification of the RCBS 45-230 Cowboy design without the crimp groove. It was designed for the 45 autopistol. It is a crackerjack design and feeds as slick as snot on a glass door knob. Similar designs are offered by Accurate and other mold makers.

I almost feel like a traitor posting this after years of being a 452423 advocate, but honesty much carry the day.

[Bigslug]

I'm still in the very early stages of experimenting with this bullet. First mold acquired is a 2C, round lube groove Lyman that casts about 10-15 grains heavier than I'd like (alloy experiments pending). Feeding not really a big problem - more sluggish than unreliable, but again, still in the early stages. It makes a lovely hole in paper, so it could be considered a more manly option to the 200 grain SWC's common for target work

Since we're talking about a Keith-era bullet in .45 ACP, suitability for the 1911 is going to be a prime topic of conversation. The thing to be aware of is that in this current Renaissance of the 1911, we now have several common feed ramp configurations and A TON of magazine options offering a variety in how the round is held and released from the feed lips.

So this is going to be my next .45 project - to play on the one hand with straight GI guns with straight GI feed ramps and straight GI magazines with their slowly tapering feed lips; and on the other hand with more modern 1911's and magazines to see what this bullet likes.

My current hypothesis: People like Char-Gar were making this bullet work in the 1911 LONG before wide feed ramps and HP-friendly timed magazine lips were even available. I'm thinking that if you can't make it work with tweaks to seating depth, a different magazine is likely all you'll need.

More modern firearm types? The 1911 was designed before the Speer Flying Ashtray. Most everything else came out after and took it into account. Worth rolling the dice, IMO.

But I'll be able to find out much sooner once the group buy for the MP 454423 is concluded and I can cast them four at a time. (Boldface added out of enlightened self-interest[smilie=1:)

[bearstopper]

I have no doubt that there are guns in which it will not feed well. I am just pumped it works so well in my carbine. I also have a 452460 mould that I have yet to try. Gonna try that Keith boolit in my Colt 1911 next.

[Char-Gar]

I have three 1911 pistols, two with current production Colt barrels and one with a Bar-Sto barrel. I am using good modern end magazines. 452423 still strikes the sharp edge of the meplat going in. This is the reason for the "sluggish" feeding you experience. To modify the barrel throat to remove that hitch, you will have to remove part of the bottom end of the chamber, something I will not do. I won't leave part of the case head unsupported. It is not likely a magazine change will be of much or any use.

I have not been asleep for the past 50 year and unaware of changed in 1911 pistols.

[Char-Gar]

I have no doubt that there are guns in which it will not feed well. I am just pumped it works so well in my carbine. I also have a 452460 mould that I have yet to try. Gonna try that Keith boolit in my Colt 1911 next.

452460 is another old design that will feed well in just about anything including mil-spec 1911s and 1911A1s.

[MtGun44]

+1 on 452460 as a great choice, as is the H&G 68 and the 452423.

Bill

[oger]

What OAL are you guys using? Mine are set at 1.160 and as stated I have zero problems with the bullet.

[bearstopper]

I seated to where 90% of the crimp groove is inside much like in AR brass except no crimp. Tried it and it fed fine in my application. Failed to measure it.

[Char-Gar]

This works for me with a taper crimp

[Stuckcase]

It’s not always the mag or the ramp. One commonly overlooked area is the extractor. If it has a proper bevel And does not clock due to sloppiness , more than likely It will feed. If not—depending on your understanding of the apparatus, some polishing and slight tweaking/bending—you may be surprised at the result.

[USSR]

My 452423HP feeds well and expands nicely coming out of my Colt Gold Cup (bullet on left).

Don

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