winchester 92 chamber

[bigted]

my snazzy little winchester rifle is in 45 colt. as the other posts concerning this rifle indicate ... I really really like this rifle. however I have discovered a flaw in the chamber area ...

my cases will accept a .456 inch boolit after firing ... and ... the case is bulged just ahead of the web of the case. the chamber is very generous to say the least ... I have experienced split cases for the first time in my illustrious 45 colt career.

I know I have read of this before and just cant remember where or by whom. the split cases have all been fired with BP in loads containing from 35 to 40 grains of either GOEX 2F or cartridge powder under my accurate arms mold that throws a 266 grain flat nose boolit.

any suggestions other then sending it back to winchester? that would be outta the question so am looking for another answer if there is one. I will suffer along with the split cases if need be as this rifle is so perfect in all other ways and I have no faith in sending it back to any factory for whatever they may want to do with it.

[TXGunNut]

I've had a little experience with Winchester warranty repairs, will characterize the results as mixed but ultimately favorable. I've heard about generous 1892 chambers but seem to recall that was not a Winchester, possibly Puma or Rossi. I'd say go for it but carefully document the defect. I'll give you a clue, they could care less about whether a fired case is reloadable.

[w30wcf]

Ted,
Not to worry..... 45 Colt chambers have typically more "windage" in them than other calibers. The original bullet diameter was actually .456". Fired cases from my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Rifle which has a .4525" groove diameter, will accept .458" diameter bullets.

According to SAAMI, the dimension on the back of the chamber is .4862 +.004" which means that the maximum diameter can be .4902" and still be in spec. The front of the chamber specification is .480"+.004". Cases from my Ruger and Marlin Cowboy rifle measure .487" at the case / web juncture so I can use the same cases in both guns, which would not be the case if the chambers were different.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Vintage%20cartridge%20boxes/IMG_0661.jpg

I first started reloading the .45 Colt back in '73 in a Ruger Blackhawk. After firing some warmish loads I was a bit concerned about what seemed like a bit too much expansion at case / web juncture. I thought that my chambers were oversized, but after a phone call to Ruger, I found out that they were within the standard chamber dimensions.

So..... I decided to just start neck sizing my brass to about 1/16" below the base of the bullet, leaving the rest of the case fireformed to fit the chamber. To this day, I still do that and the only cases I have lost have been due to mouth splits from repeatedly being crimped.

I am using a Lyman carbide die and find that I can extend the decapping pin out far enough so that I can decap and neck resize at the same time.:-D

You might try neck sizing your brass. I think your case split troubles will pretty much be a thing of the past if you do.

For b.p. loads, I use cases that have been neck annealed and find that the exterior of the cases stay really clean. :-D

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/45Coltannealednecksizedjpg.jpg

w30wcf

[mikeym1a]

I was going to ask if annealing would help with the neck splits. As the chamber is so large, has the OP slugged the bore? If the barrel matches the chamber, then he might just want to get an appropriate sized boolit, and do as w30wcf is doing, just resizing the first 1/8 of an inch of the case neck. Since the brass seems to have been worked so much, I personally would anneal all those cases. good luck with this. mikey

[Nobade]

Hi Ted,
w30wcf pretty much said it all - I do the same thing with our Marlin 1894CB. The fired cases are almost as big as the rim, and if they get full length sized they will leak a lot of gas back into the action, give very erratic velocities, and quickly split. I size just enough of the case to hold the boolit, and stick the decap pin way out of the die so it removes the primer at the same time. Make sure they are annealed well, use the right size expander plug for the boolit size, and you should have good results. This way they seal the chamber and you don't end up with BP fouling in the action. They look like oversize 44-40 cases, but work well. I have also found that boolits from .452" up to .458" will shoot well in this rifle. Soft lead and BP, of course.

-Nobade

[w30wcf]

I was going to ask if annealing would help with the neck splits. As the chamber is so large, has the OP slugged the bore? If the barrel matches the chamber, then he might just want to get an appropriate sized boolit, and do as w30wcf is doing, just resizing the first 1/8 of an inch of the case neck. Since the brass seems to have been worked so much, I personally would anneal all those cases. good luck with this. mikey

mikey,
To this point, I have only annealed the cases I use for b.p. Annealing definitely extends case life. Since some of my smokeless loads use a healthy dose of H4227, H110/296, I want maximum bullet pull so I don't anneal those cases.

The minimum length of the case neck that I size is about .43" and up to .50" depending on the bullet. For the heavyweights (300+ grs) it is over .50".

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Nobade,
Ditto on the "up to .458". :D Most of my .45 Colt cast bullets launch at .456".

w30wcf

[bigted]

no the OP has not done anything yet but ... the splits are on the main body ... not the neck.

I will do both the anneal AND neck size ... I guess I need some larger sized boolits to try for this ... may just patch a few to the larger diameter and try em first.

[w30wcf]

Ted,
It's your choice but you don't necessarily need larger bullets than you are using to try neck sizing & or annealing.

w30wcf

[bigted]

yep you are rite on. just want to try the larger boolits and maybe do what I do with the longer 45 cases ...

that is to take a fired case and with no sizing at all ... shovel in enough bp to allow the boolit to compress the charge with a boolit of the correct size to finger seat em in the mouth of the fired case diameter. this should do all I desire AND keep my cases from being destroyed.

so I will anneal the cases and find some diameter boolits that will JUST stuff into the yawning mouth with little resistance. just for a try and then mybe the leading will be a little less as well. it has worked for other rifles so I will give it a try on this one.

thanks for the reminder tho on the neck sizing for boolits I already have. I HAD overlooked this option. as for a neck size only die ... guess I could size in my ACP die.

[dagger dog]

however I have discovered a flaw in the chamber area the case is bulged just ahead of the web of the case.

My Rossi bulges the brass in the same place with TrailBoss loads of 6.5 grs and a 255 cast LSWC. Very low pressure load with the velocity running 800-850FPS out of my 24" bbl.

The feed ramp extends in to the rear of the chamber, that makes for reliable feeding with the straight walled case in the 92 action, and IMO is because the action was originally designed for a slight bottle neck case, 44-40 38-40 etc.

I'll bet a dollar to a do-nut the 1873 action Italian modern clones chambered for the 45 Colt doesn't do the same .

I've heard of one other Rossi 92 with 38-357 did the same thing.