Success with the M1 garand!

[300blk]

99601

I worked up some loads with my M1 lee 200 grain rn and 4895 with.7 gr dacron. Finally got a NM front sight and decided to go play at 100 yards today, it was lotsa fun.
My eyes are still sharp, but the NM sight helped tremendously.

group III had one called flyer and is the winner for my new load for the M1.

This has been a long time coming, as a load that both cycles the action AND is worth a damn was something that was difficult to attain for me.

[pretzelxx]

A called flyer, doesn't really look to far out. That's a good load! Wish I had an m1!

[nicholst55]

That's pretty fair shooting with an M1 shooting cast! Glad it all came together for you.

[300blk]

I had adjusted my cheek, and realized it as soon as I broke the shot. the side to side stringing may be my fault and may not be. I don't really know, this seems to be a phenomenon I only get with cast bullets.

[waco]

Very impressive sir!

[300blk]

That's pretty fair shooting with an M1 shooting cast! Glad it all came together for you.

Thanks!
I'm gonna load up some more with segregated boolit weights and same head-stamp brass, maybe I can push my luck. these loads were .50 grains apart so maybe even better tunage. I can hope at least. A buddy and me stumbled on an old weapon room ordinance gauge set and my rifle gauged under 1 on ME and a 2.1 on TE.
Anyway, encouraging results today.

[Jupiter7]

Very nice! Congrats

[Larry Gibson]

Well done. Makes all the cr*p I get from a few for recommending 4895 and a Dacron filler worth the effort.

Larry Gibson

[300blk]

Well done. Makes all the cr*p I get from a few for recommending 4895 and a Dacron filler worth the effort.

Larry Gibson

I think this was on your recommendation.
when I found some I bought 16 lbs from my local sportsman's warehouse while still in KY.
fairly decent all around powder.

[DonMountain]

Well done. Makes all the cr*p I get from a few for recommending 4895 and a Dacron filler worth the effort.

Larry Gibson

I bought 2 of those antique M1 Garand rifles about 30 years ago from a yard sale for $25 apiece, but never fired them because I was told they were black powder guns left over from the first world war, being the first semi-auto rifles made. I cleaned them up and they look almost brand new with like-new barrels just to hang on the wall. So, if I was to actually try shooting one of them, what sort of 4895 loads might they take? Will the 7 grain load suggested operate the ejection?

[garandsrus]

It was not a 7gr load! It was .7gr of Dacron. Check a loading manual for appropriate loads of 4895, based on which 4895 you have and the bullet you are using.

John

[bruce drake]

DonMountain,

Start doing a little searching on this forum. There have been several threads on getting Garands to shoot well with cast bullets. Good luck on the search. Its a fun experience getting them to shoot well.

Bruce

[300blk]

The load that worked for me was 33 grains h4895 with lee 309-200. I have heard great things about the 311299 though I've never tried it in the garand. Do you handload now?
Heh. I'll double your money on those useless wal hangers.

Here is a wiki on the m1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand

[DonMountain]

The load that worked for me was 33 grains h4895 with lee 309-200. I have heard great things about the 311299 though I've never tried it in the garand. Do you handload now?
Heh. I'll double your money on those useless wal hangers.

Here is a wiki on the m1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand

Well thank you. I learned a lot about the development of the Garand from the wiki. And they evidently take the same 30-06 round as my Ruger American rifle. So I have a few 30-06 casings to try out in it. And I even have some H4895 powder to try in one of them. Along with a pile of Dacron scraps I got from one of my wife's quilt projects. I do have an RCBS 30-180-SP-GC mold and some boolits sized to 0.309" that I use in a 308 rifle. Do you think those will work in a Garand? Or do you think that since this rifle is so old, coming soon after smokeless powder was developed, that a plain based, soft, lead based boolit is more appropriate? And you would offer me $50 for one of these old rifles, even if they hadn't been shot in 50 years? That sounds like a promising offer. But I think now I would like to shoot one of them first to see what they will do. I doubt very much that they will stand up to shooting like my AR's and modern Ruger rifles will. If it doesn't have a plastic stock I am afraid to shoot them and just use the wooden stock guns for display in my reloading room. I've heard the wood stocks on those antique rifles make them shoot all over the place when you take them outside on a damp day. And I have been reloading shotgun for almost a year now since all the ammo disappeared from the WaLmart store.

[GooseGestapo]

Mine does the same with ~36.5gr H4895. No dacron needed. Same bullet lubed with SPG and Hornady gas-check. Runs like an industrial sewing machine... Smooth and precise.
Two clicks up from setting for 150gr FMJ w/48.5gr H4895.

[300blk]

DonMountain-
Wooden stocked rifles if properly oiled or otherwise sealed can be just as weather resistant as polymer.Bedding and unitizing the M1 rifle is also a good option to cure any "all over the place" woes you might encounter.
While I would love a couple of 50 dollar garands, the going rate for a total hackjob is 300-400 bucks, pristine ww2 issue can be exorbitant to say the least, I've seen as high as 2500. they ARE chambered in 30-06 but using your super-drop-'em-dead hunting ammo may or may not be advised.

http://www.garandgear.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:shooting-commercial-ammunition-in-your-m1-garand&catid=39
A decent article on this subject, with 4895 and a 147-150 fmj you can duplicate the m2 ball without much effort.

lymans cast bullet handbook has some data for that rcbs 180 if you are interesting in trying it.

I also use a lee 312-155 and 20 grains blue dot for a light recoil load that doesn't cycle the action for new shooters. its great fun and cheap.

If you do decide to sell lemme know, but otherwise have fun with your m1 garand(s)

[madsenshooter]

Where's the line start for those awful wood stocked wallhangers? 70 yrs old is nothing, I regularly shoot a wood stocked US rifle that's 118yrs old. I wouldn't mind upgrading to a semi auto though.

[country gent]

I started out in high power service rifle matches with a tuned garand that would shoot all over the 10 ring at 600yds. As Patton said about it the best battle rifle ever made. Bedded and tuned to match standards they shoot very well and consistent. I did convert mine to 308. then went to the M14/M1A. as the 2 and 8 round loading was easier in the rapid fires.

[EMC45]

Very good shooting.

[jonk]

Nice! My thoughts on cast and the M1, based on a moderate amount of playing are, I haven't gotten one to shoot QUITE as well as with match grade j-words, but can easily equal or slightly better HXP performance... which for daily shooting is exactly what I want. Again, nice job.

Personally mine likes the 311299 better than the Lee, but they're pretty close.

[dondiego]

Well thank you. I learned a lot about the development of the Garand from the wiki. And they evidently take the same 30-06 round as my Ruger American rifle. So I have a few 30-06 casings to try out in it. And I even have some H4895 powder to try in one of them. Along with a pile of Dacron scraps I got from one of my wife's quilt projects. I do have an RCBS 30-180-SP-GC mold and some boolits sized to 0.309" that I use in a 308 rifle. Do you think those will work in a Garand? Or do you think that since this rifle is so old, coming soon after smokeless powder was developed, that a plain based, soft, lead based boolit is more appropriate? And you would offer me $50 for one of these old rifles, even if they hadn't been shot in 50 years? That sounds like a promising offer. But I think now I would like to shoot one of them first to see what they will do. I doubt very much that they will stand up to shooting like my AR's and modern Ruger rifles will. If it doesn't have a plastic stock I am afraid to shoot them and just use the wooden stock guns for display in my reloading room. I've heard the wood stocks on those antique rifles make them shoot all over the place when you take them outside on a damp day. And I have been reloading shotgun for almost a year now since all the ammo disappeared from the WaLmart store.

This is a joke..........right?

[300blk]

Try not to make assumptions either way. Uninformed is just as likely. For instance: tell me everything yo know off hand aout hk g11 and the failures or successes of caseless ammunition by hk, daisy, and metal storm.

[Alstep]

Don't underestimate the old M1 Garand. I competed for years with one in national highpower service rifle competition, right back to 600 & 1000 yards. 4895 was the standard powder with jacketed bullets. You don't want to go over 175 grainers, and powder much slower than 4895. Slow powders will raise the port pressure and bent op rods may result. Someday I'll have to play with cast. Your results show it can be done.

[300blk]

It can be done ! It is a pain. More so than jacketed and more than Cb in pistols.

[fatelvis]

Great shooting! Judging by the boolitholes, It looks like you were shooting wadcutters out of your rifle instead of Lee's boolits. Are you hiding a secret? Lol

[300blk]

Hah- you got me 30 cal paper punch strikes again.
I was a little surprised myself at the clean holes. Gas check maybe?

[fatelvis]

So it looks like a 200 grn boolit over 33.5-36 grns of either 4895 seems to be a popular favorite load in people's Garands? I'm looking for a good starting load that will be reasonably accurate and function the action reliably.

[Toymaker]

300blk,
That is some great shooting. It's well documented that the Garand is famous, or is that infamous, for throwing the first round out of the group. I've read a lot of reasons why, but have never found anything consistent. I do find that after the bolt closes if I smack the handle a couple of times the flyers are reduced. Also, were you using IMR 4895 or H 4895? I've found H 4895 gives me better and more consistent results. Don't believe anyone who tells you they're the same.
Beautiful grouping. If that target is the one I think it is, your #3 group is 1 MOA even with your "flyer". That's a tribute to the loader, shooter and rifle.

[Just Duke]

99601

I worked up some loads with my M1 lee 200 grain rn and 4895 with.7 gr dacron. Finally got a NM front sight and decided to go play at 100 yards today, it was lotsa fun.
My eyes are still sharp, but the NM sight helped tremendously.

group III had one called flyer and is the winner for my new load for the M1.

This has been a long time coming, as a load that both cycles the action AND is worth a damn was something that was difficult to attain for me.

That's some good shooting.

[300blk]

Aw shucks guys. You fellers sure know how to make a guy feel good. Thanks for all the kind words.

[300blk]

That's not something I'd heard about the m1 will have to try that this weekend . H not imr. Remember reading something about it being less temperature sensitive. I don't think its quite 1 , we shall see if this is repeatable consistently -- anyone can have 1 good day at the range. :)

[300blk]

So it looks like a 200 grn boolit over 33.5-36 grns of either 4895 seems to be a popular favorite load in people's Garands? I'm looking for a good starting load that will be reasonably accurate and function the action reliably.

I've used tac, Blc-2 ,h335(canister) and varget before h4895 this has been my favorite thus far.

[Cadillo]

300blk,
That is some great shooting. It's well documented that the Garand is famous, or is that infamous, for throwing the first round out of the group. I've read a lot of reasons why, but have never found anything consistent. I do find that after the bolt closes if I smack the handle a couple of times the flyers are reduced. Also, were you using IMR 4895 or H 4895? I've found H 4895 gives me better and more consistent results. Don't believe anyone who tells you they're the same.
Beautiful grouping. If that target is the one I think it is, your #3 group is 1 MOA even with your "flyer". That's a tribute to the loader, shooter and rifle.

With some guns, the use of a small base sizing die helps. The first round meets a lot of resistance when being stripped from the clip. This slows the cartridge and bolt enough that it won't seat into the chamber the same as subsequent rounds, which are moving a lot faster when they leave the clip.

The smaller diameter case that results from the small base die, allows the cartridge to slip more easily into battery even when driven by the slow moving bolt on stripping the first round.

[300blk]

100222
100223

Well, went playing again today this time only 30 yards (battle rifle battleship :) ), refined my load and forgot to take a picture of the groups at 100 before it rained on my targets yesterday, but I can say with certainty now, this does average a hair above 1 MOA.
Measured group average (3-8 shot groups) came in at 1.1 inches at 100 yards.
great way to wrap up the week.

[popper]

battle rifle battleship timed event? Looks like fun for the GKs.

[300blk]

We did it as a turn based deal, at thirty yards those~.500 inch green on blue circles are hard to see. On the other side, it's red circles which are lots easier with irons. Gotta give the newer shooters some handicaps. He shot his newly acquired savage model 10. Even with the scope, newer shooters tend to like to rush things. I won, but had he taken his time he could've won handily. I had several shots where I wasn't even sure I was holding on the green, and clearly I wasn't.
Of course, he was dumbfounded that I outshot him with iron sights and *gasp!* LEAD BULLETS!
Fun was had by all.

[fredj338]

Antique, that's funny. The old M1 is still a fine battle rifle in he right hands. I would like to work up some lead loads for mine.

[Love Life]

I'll give $200 apiece for those old wall hanger M1 rifles...