Load Data : Why did I choose to start with Custom Molds!?!?

[birdadly]

Although I've been at this, with your help, for 3 years now, I think I wish I would have started with molds that actually have load data in reloading books. What have I been doing for 3 years? well, using molds that you fellas also are buying (NOE/Mihec) and finding info here of what's been working for you all.

What I haven't been able to learn on my own is, how to find a "range" of weight of powders for custom molds. I try comparing to what's in the manuals (mostly Lyman 4th Cast Bullet & Lyman 49th) but things just don't add up for me. For instance:

Mihec's 359 140gr FB mold... I've read I can use a heavier bullets' data, so I did that, and it shoots fine. With some testing of 3 powders & slightly different charges, I decided on a load I am content with (4.2gr Power Pistol). But I know accuracy can improve, but I don't know the ranges in which I can safely test.

There's a 140gr Saeco #383 listed in the book, it sure looks like my bullet, but the charge is way different (4.9-5.4). I assume it's because of the shape/length of the bullet? so it wouldn't be safe to use that info? Well that's what I'm assuming...

While fiddling with that bullet's load, this summer I also want to start loading my NOE 402 180gr RN bullet (will be 1st time loading for 40S&W). But, without searching to find if any of you have used this bullet, what is the correct course of action for me finding correct/safe info?

I'm not asking for you to tell me load data, I'm asking how can I safely find it on my own for custom molds?

Does that make sense? Is it easy & I'm making a mountain out of a molehill? Winded I know...

Thank you so much. -Brad

[Blammer]

Mihec's 359 140gr FB mold... I've read I can use a heavier bullets' data, so I did that, and it shoots fine. With some testing of 3 powders & slightly different charges, I decided on a load I am content with (4.2gr Power Pistol). But I know accuracy can improve, but I don't know the ranges in which I can safely test.


Lets take this for an example. since you chose the heavier bullet out of the load manual for your starting data, you can use all the way up to and including the max recommended load for that heavier projectile in the load book, for your lighter projectile. That should give you a good range to go by.

basically you can use the load data range given for a particular projectile with a substituted LIGHTER projectile only.

[williamwaco]

Blammer +1

Millions of reloaders do it every day.

You can too.


PS:

If you have only used custom molds, I suggest you got over to Midwayusa and blow 20 bucks on a lee two cavity.

Then you will appreciate your custom a lot more.

[Artful]

birdadly - I think your thinking of the reloading manual as gospel - they are just the experiences of one lab sometimes only using one gun with several powders and what they observed or measured. There is a reason you want to collect manuals from many different sources ...
- so you can see the comparison/contrast between different peoples experiences with the powder/bullet/load ranges.

I must have 4 feet of different loading manuals - from bullet makers, powder makers, mold makers and people that have reloaded for years. I'd bet money you can't find one bullet/powder combination that has the exact same load ranges across all those manuals. The reason is they don't have the same components really - different guns, different lots of powder, different atmospheric conditions when testing - it all comes into play - I had a friend that had an identical Redhawk revolver to mine and his always ran 100 fps faster with the same ammo. I have a friend and his Remington 700 always shows pressure signs before mine does with same ammo.

You have to use your cogitative thinking skills here.

[RobS]

I look at different sources of load data to start with and then with my custom designs I look at similar boolit wt. and boolit design from a reloading manual and note the velocities of powder I'm working with for my particular application. I then will start on the min. charges and work up while watching my chronograph and looking for accuracy. I look at velocities and make sure to not run past the top side in the reloading manuals for their max charges. Many times accuracy is found before reaching max velocities and that's where I stop.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm not sure how many manuals you have...but it sounds like you need more.
I have a about a dozen.
then there is cast pics load data...and there are others on line also.

[Tatume]

If you have only used custom molds, I suggest you got over to Midwayusa and blow 20 bucks on a lee two cavity. Then you will appreciate your custom a lot more.

There are a lot of advantages to custom molds, and I own many. They cost more because they are made to very high standards of quality, in small numbers, and often to the individual specifications of the buyer. For example, I wanted to cast 240 grain WFN and Keith bullets that could be used in a Freedom Arms M97 41 Magnum revolver. Veral made the WFN mold for me, and Tom made the Keith mold. Both shoot beautifully, and I enjoy casting with the molds.

On the other hand, I've never seen a mold that produces 170 grain 30 caliber bullets any better than the Lee two-cavity mold ($20), and it is so light and handy that I can use it all day without fatigue. Many of the Lee molds are bargains of the highest caliber.

Comparing Lee two-cavity molds to custom molds casting similar bullets but costing hundreds of dollars is often like comparing a Holland and Holland bolt action rifle to a Savage M110. Both work well.

Take care, Tom

[birdadly]

Thanks everyone. "Artful" was right, I suppose I do look at manuals as gospel. I like to have directions in front of me telling me what to do. I feel safer like that perhaps. I think to do this correctly, I need a chronograph. I like what "RobS" said, and I think if I knew the speed of what I'm currently shooting, I can compare that to the manuals and figure out where I'm sitting, and perhaps where I can move to from there.

"JonB"'s right too, I could use more manuals. I really only look at the 2 I mentioned, but also have an older Speer and newer Hornady manuals. What's more true though, is I should get back to actually reading them. I did 3 years ago when I started reloading, but now I mostly just look at the data. But to learn what I came here to learn yesterday, is probably in those manuals somewhere.

Thanks for taking the time to pass on some advice fellas; it's greatly appreciated. -Brad

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Extrapolate!
Sometimes you have too. Like when load data is given for
150 and 180 grain boolits, but you have a 165. If you study
manuals enough, you'll learn that you can figure out a
starting point fairly easy, then read the cases for the maximum
loads.

[williamwaco]

There are a lot of advantages to custom molds, and I own many. They cost more because they are made to very high standards of quality, in small numbers, and often to the individual specifications of the buyer. For example, I wanted to cast 240 grain WFN and Keith bullets that could be used in a Freedom Arms M97 41 Magnum revolver. Veral made the WFN mold for me, and Tom made the Keith mold. Both shoot beautifully, and I enjoy casting with the molds.

On the other hand, I've never seen a mold that produces 170 grain 30 caliber bullets any better than the Lee two-cavity mold ($20), and it is so light and handy that I can use it all day without fatigue. Many of the Lee molds are bargains of the highest caliber.

Comparing Lee two-cavity molds to custom molds casting similar bullets but costing hundreds of dollars is often like comparing a Holland and Holland bolt action rifle to a Savage M110. Both work well.

Take care, Tom

I agree with that bullet. I too use it. I think it is every bit as good as the very highly rated 311041.
The molds are bargains. They are so inexpensive I consider them disposable.

[TXGunNut]

"JonB"'s right too, I could use more manuals. I really only look at the 2 I mentioned, but also have an older Speer and newer Hornady manuals. What's more true though, is I should get back to actually reading them. I did 3 years ago when I started reloading, but now I mostly just look at the data. But to learn what I came here to learn yesterday, is probably in those manuals somewhere...birdadly

I agree with going back to read those manuals, I do it on a regular basis. I like the manuals you have but have found the Lee manual quite useful as well. He definitely goes his own way but I learned quite a bit when I finally bought his manual. And yes, I like the newer 2-cav moulds; best $20 you'll ever spend.

[YunGun]

I recommend taking a look at some of the older manuals as well, as they have a wealth of cast bullet information & load data that just isn't present in most of the modern load books as they tend to concentrate on jacketed data.

There are several available to download from the CastPics site under 'Load Data' & 'Old Manuals (http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html)', and digital copies of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition can be found/downloaded for free elsewhere online if you look.

[40-82]

One thing you may wish to consider about data in loading manuals. Just because a load is listed in a manual doesn't absolutely mean that the load will be safe in your gun. This is particularly true with the hotter loads in older manuals. Work up slow and gain a feel for pressures. There are loads still floating about out there that are of interest for historical reasons that I would never dare try. Possibly you already know this, but it would be a shame if no one said it and you didn't.

[Wayne Smith]

I recommend taking a look at some of the older manuals as well, as they have a wealth of cast bullet information & load data that just isn't present in most of the modern load books as they tend to concentrate on jacketed data.

There are several available to download from the CastPics site under 'Load Data' & 'Old Manuals (http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html)', and digital copies of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition can be found/downloaded for free elsewhere online if you look.

I sure would appreciate a link for the Lyman 3rd Edition! I suck at searches.

[BeeMan]

Brad,

It sounds like you are talking about pistol rounds. A factor that can change things in a hurry is anything that reduces/increases combustion space in the loaded cartridge.

Consider the situation of different projectile types/shapes at the same weight. A round nose seated to the max overall length for the cartridge will have a given volume underneath the bullet base. A flush seated wadcutter would have substantially less volume and produces much higher pressures at the same charge weight. Seat that same wadcutter at the max overall cartridge length and it will have more internal cartridge volume than the round nose. Pressures at the same charge will go down.

It is not always a matter of just using less powder to be safe. Load up a bullet that creates more internal space than a book load, with a light end load of a slower powder than normal. You just might find yourself with a projectile stuck in the bore. Keep a range rod handy.

Next, consider how projectile shape affects engagement with the throat. Long jump usually lowers pressure, and allows blow-by if undersize. Jammed into the throat raises pressure.

Think it through a bit and start with middle of the road components. You can sort this out without having an exact match from a manual, as long as you identify and understand the differences between your components and those in the book.

BeeMan

[gwpercle]

I go by cast boolit weight and similar profile, go through as many of my loading manuals as I can find data on. Take the middle of the road charges from 4 to 6 different load manuals and average them all up. Start there...that's why 10 or 12 manuals are not Too many.
It's all a somewhat educated guess...nothing written in stone. I have an old Speer manual that some of the loads are HOT...definitely +P+ in a few instances.

Gary

[Love Life]

If no cast data then I look to jacketed data.

[birdadly]

Thanks everyone. I'm getting it now. I'm not going to find the custom mold data anywhere. I really like what Jim said, "Extrapolate!". I believe that's what you all are doing. Taking in all the data from books, all your past experiences and info gathered online... and creating an educated range for those molds.

I can do that. I'm just new (in my eyes) and inexperienced. I'm growing and becoming more experienced each year. I usually print out these threads and keep 'em in a binder so I will read 'em over and over. I tend to forget things :)

Thank you. -Brad

[gmsharps]

The manuals are just a guide to get you started safely. I always use at least two references in case of a typo.

gmsharps

[silverado]

Look at 2 manuals and compare the same (or same weight) loads. Many times they will have overlapping data. Lee lists a min load of 3.2 grains for 158 grain lead bullet, lyman lists 3.3 grains as their max for what I loaded tonight...

[waco]

If no cast data then I look to jacketed data.

Yep. Start low and work up.