Bismuth/Tin Alloy - Anybody Tried It?

[I Haines]

I'm looking for a lead-free roundball to use in a traditional muzzleloader. I've got a couple pounds of Bismuth/Tin alloy from RotoMetals. Does anybody have experience with it?

Thanks. IH

[Calamity Jake]

It's to hard, stay with pure lead!!!!

[I Haines]

It's to hard, stay with pure lead!!!!

As you may already know, CA regulations require non-lead projectiles in certain areas. I want to hunt with traditional ML firearms, rather than inlines. I've already tried the ITX r/balls and THEY ARE HARD! You can shoot them, recover them and shoot em again. And they're quite a bit lighter than lead. I want to experiment with the bismuth/tin alloy as it seems like a better alternative.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't have any experience casting with the Bismuth/Tin alloy, but I think it would work with a suitable patch.

My question is how are you going to convince the Condor protectors that the round balls in your hunting bag are not made from that evil lead?

Robert

[badbob454]

hit it with a hammer and if it dents easily should work .. it is harder than pure lead , though

[Whiterabbit]

cast small and use a thick patch?

I'm in the same boat. ITX doesn't even make 58's though. I'm buying brass ball bearings and roughing them up. I'll be damned if CA cuts out my ability to hunt with a primitive rifle.

[geargnasher]

Ought to work fine if you don't break your short-starter.

Gear

[bangerjim]

I have around 400# of a Bi/Sn/Sb/Pb alloy I use for various things including hardening my boolit soup. 1oz will bring 1# of pure lead to ~12bhn!

I also use it for casting antique art work replacement trim for clocks and such, as it melts at 158F. I will cast in a plastic SOLO cup. Hot water from the microwave will melt it. Really shocks people with I do that!

The stuff has a hardness of around 23 by itself.

Close to Woods metal but without the horrible Cd in there.

I would NEVER shoot it straight...........way too hard!

I would use the stuff you have as an alloy for pistol and rifle lead....not RB's for BP. I thought you guys always shot soft lead?????

banger

[Whiterabbit]

we do. CA lead laws. This would be for hunting.

[BattleRife]

Alloys are essentially always harder than the pure metals involved. Your best bet may be pure tin. Or pure bismuth.

[Whiterabbit]

Is a tin alloy containing lead harder than pure tin?

[I Haines]

As I understand it, bismuth was used as a replacement for lead in waterfowl shotgun shells. It was dense but too brittle. Alloyed with tin it is supposed to be usable as shot. This stuff from Rotometals may be the same alloy used for shot something close. If it's more malleable than the ITX balls (tungsten/iron ?) and nearly as dense as lead it may work as a non-toxic substitute for lead roundballs.

If nobody here has tried this metal I guess I'll just give it a go and report my findings. IH

[Whiterabbit]

sorry, I was making a tongue in cheek comment about alloys always being harder than pure materials, which is not true. I could have made a better decision about how to post.

[BattleRife]

sorry, I was making a tongue in cheek comment about alloys always being harder than pure materials, which is not true. I could have made a better decision about how to post.

I took no offense whatsoever to your post. It makes a good point that I really didn't have clear in my mind what I was trying to say, and certainly the way it's written it is misleading.

The point I was trying to make is that mixing two metals will never depress the hardness, IE make it fall below the hardness of the softest of the constituents. Thinking about it today though, I suppose this isn't necessarily a reason to not experiment with it. If you had a soft, light metal and a hard dense metal, I suppose it might be possible to mix the two to give an alloy that had acceptable properties of softish and densish.

[osteodoc08]

Can you not use one of the copper only projectiles in a sabot? That seems to be a popular solution.

[I Haines]

Can you not use one of the copper only projectiles in a sabot? That seems to be a popular solution.

Popular maybe but not traditional. Want to use a patched roundball with all of it's limitations. Also, I'm using a barrel with 1 in 66" twist. Way too slow for saboted bullets.

[I Haines]

I melted and cast the 2lbs of bismuth/tin metal tonight. It's melting point was somewhere around 500*. Only 2lbs of it so I cast it in a small pot over my propane stove. Casting temp was about 550 to 600.

I was surprised that it cast as well as it did. I used my RCBS r/ball mould that normally throws a .492" ball that weighs 187grains. The bismuth alloy balls weighed 155grs and measured .496". I suppose a smaller diameter mould would throw a more appropriate size ball.

I pushed the balls down a barrel with the breech plug removed and tried patches from .007" to .016". The thicker patches had to be started by rapping the short starter with a rubber mallet. Once started they could be pushed all the way out.

The metal is hard but somewhat malleable. The short starter will leave an indent on the balls. Pliers will deform the ball.

So the next step is to load and fire some. IA