1894 Win accuracy?

[samwithacolt]

Ok, tell the truth. What kind of groups can you get with your 1894 carbine? I have a .32 win special that seems to shoot about 4" nomatter what I put in it. It has the original buckhorns, but I filed the brass bead flat on the sides to make a blade. I want to come up with a good cast boolit hunting load for it over the summer, but I don't know if I/the gun can do better than 4". I can do 2" with my Enfield or Mosin, but they have better sights.
What can Y'all do with your "94?

[TXGunNut]

I have a 94 carbine in 32 WS, it shoots a little better than yours but I had to put a peep sight on it to make that happen. 4" is well within minute-of-whitetail. I seldom shoot further than 150 yds, generally much less. Your 100 yd 4" group likely becomes a 6" group @ 150 yds, a center mass hold on a deer will soon have you testing the edge on your hunting knife.

[Muskyhunter1]

I am not a bench rest shooter but considering it is a close range deer rifle I would be happy with that group. Just my opinion. Keep shooting and try and improve that group. Good luck.

[Dryball]

I'd at least get a sight to suit you better, if not a peep. That should tighten things up as long as your boolit fits the bore and the barrel is still good.

[salvadore]

My best results are when I trim my brass prior to loading. I use Accurates 32-160g over various amounts of 4198 but plan on trying 5744. If I try to use my brass twice between trimmings I get groups just over 2" and as big as 4" @ 50yds (eyesight challenged). When I trim and pay attention to loading I get sub 2" and occasionally 1.5" five shot groups.


http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0524_zps5354dd89.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0524_zps5354dd89.jpg.html)

[salvadore]

Hey Tex, how ya been?

[samwithacolt]

I looked at my targets again, my rel 7 load had a
group at 3 1/2" . I"m guessing buckhorns won't do MOA.
I want to keep the sights original, at least for now.

[Eutectic]

Townsend Whelen in one of his early books said he believed the .25-35 WCF might very well be the most accurate lever gun cartridge... He quickly added unless it was the .25-20 WCF...

My perfect bore .25-35 will shot under an inch at 85 yards with loads it likes. This is with "J"-words however....

My Winchester Model 92 SRC in .25-20 WCF does the same thing... WITH CAST BOOLITS!

Eutectic

[rintinglen]

I have been able to shoot quite a few 3 inch 100 yard groups with my Target sighted Frankenstein rifle, but my 1953 Carbine gives results similar to what you get. Curiously. I have shot several 1 inch groups at 50 yards, but I have not managed to duplicate that farther out.
4 inches is pretty much what you can expect, though.
I am in the "Don't tell me what you might hit, tell me what you can't miss" school. The fact that you have a microscopic group that you once managed to shoot hanging up in the garage, doesn't mean that ole Betsy is a sub-moa rifle. One of anything proves nothing, Jesus rose from the dead, but that is not the statistical average.

[Eutectic]

4 inches is pretty much what you can expect, though.
I am in the "Don't tell me what you might hit, tell me what you can't miss" school. The fact that you have a microscopic group that you once managed to shoot hanging up in the garage, doesn't mean that ole Betsy is a sub-moa rifle. One of anything proves nothing, Jesus rose from the dead, but that is not the statistical average.

You may expect 4 minute of angle rintin.....

But I expect more!

.25-35 100 yards 6 shots

.25-20 85 yards 77gr GC 6 shots

.25-20 85 yards 64gr HP GC 8 shots

Eutectic
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[Larry Gibson]

I can do 2" with my Enfield or Mosin, but they have better sights.

That should be a clue.

Your M94 should already be D&T'd for a receiver sight. I suggest the Lyman. Might just surprise you what the M94 will do with a receiver sight. There are also a couple tweaks that can be done to improve accuracy of a M94. If the receiver sight doesn't give you accuracy you can live with then tweaking may further help. (not to be confused with twerking:lol:)

Larry Gibson

[helice]

I've got a little Trapper that I like a bunch. Put a tang sight on it and near doubled the sight radius. It was amazing what that can do for a short lever gun. A good tang sight may not have been original equipment but it was a common option in the "good ol' days."

[Outpost75]

This group was shot with factory Winchester 150-grain softpoints at 200 yards. from a pre-1964 Model 94 .30-30

99398


This is the 100-yard zero and sighting target fired at 100 yards on the same day, with the same box of ammo while cranking the sights in.

99399

About 3 minutes of angle is fairly typical for a 94 Winchester with peep sight firing factory ammo. Note also that we fired a full magazine load each time, there are no "called" fliers or any of that nonsense, what you se if what we shot.

[Char-Gar]

A 94 carbine with it's twin barrel bands is a day in day out 3 to 4 moa rifle. The occasional better group when the stars are in alignment does not count. To shave 1 moa off the groups:

1. Install a peep sight.
2. Single loads rounds in the chamber.
3. Rest the stock on your hand with the hand on the bags.

The 94 rifle will shoot better groups than the 94 carbine.

The 92 with it lighter calibers will shoot better groups than the 94. My 92 rifle in 25-20 is an honest 2 moa rifle.

The 94 carbine has ample accuracy for its intended purpose.

[Outpost75]

Also in my experience, the .25-35 is significantly more accurate than the .30-30.
The .30-30 and .32 Special both shoot better than the .38-55, because the '94 barrel is too light for the larger caliber unless the loads are kept to mild, blackpowder levels.

[salvadore]

Went out and shot my Tanker after posting. Targets of opportunity, seemed quite deadly. Going to the range today without cleaning the barrel. See what I can do..

[bob208]

from my experience with the 94. a carbine like most here are talking about. the .25-35 is the most accrete. the carbines run 3"-4" at 100 yd. now a carbine with a button mag will shoot tighter. why? because there is no front barrel band. now it will get tighter groups if you take off the mag tube and fore arm. so if you relive the bands some just a little. you can improve the groups.

now a rifle will out shoot a carbine because it has no barrel bands. a rifle with a button mag will out shoot a rifle with a full mag.

[smkummer]

My groups went down to about 2-3" @ 100 yards using Lyman's cast bullet 311291 sized at .311 (GC) and a charge of unique that gives me 1500 FPS WHEN I used the front bead sight at the 6 oclock hold on the black bull at 100 yards. The rear elevator on my 1962 94 30-30 is at the second to the top position because of using the front sight on the 6 oclock hold and the reduced charge. Remember the front bead will cover most 100 black bullseyes and that does not promote accurate firing. A good post front sight combined with a rear peep would possibly even shrink the groups more but I don't want to change the fast hunting sight picture of the buckhorn sights.

[samwithacolt]

Thanks guys,
Right now I'm flat out broke. I'm typing this as I grab a bite to eat before picking up my 2 yr old to go see his new baby sister, who arrived this morning. I can't buy too many toys for me for a while!
I want to keep the buckhorns, I see my 94 as a great short range deer gun, or as an alternative to the shotgun when packing out meat. I hunt elk in some nasty grizzly country, with a few black bears and cougars for good measure. My buddy and I like to walk way back off the roads which means packing meat out, sometimes going back in the morning to a carcase that layed out all night. I like how light the 94 is, and how handy. I shot a mule doe with it 2 yrs ago with jwords, hoping to use it this year with cast.

[OverMax]

I have a 94 32 spec I shoot once in a while. I found I had to step up its bullet speed to a certain point just to tighten its groups. And in doing so I also had to remove its rear site elevator to get it's boolit impact point moved down to center bullseye at 100 yards. Personally I found my 32 to be a very touchy/finicky shooting rife. Much more than my 94 30-30 ever was. FWIW: a 4" grouping at 100 yards is unacceptable for a open site hunting rifle. But to many other owners it may be quite acceptable.

BTW: Congratulation's Sir on your new arrival.

[Char-Gar]

I have a 94 32 spec I shoot once in a while. I found I had to step up its bullet speed to a certain point just to tighten its groups. And in doing so I also had to remove its rear site elevator to get it's boolit impact point moved down to center bullseye at 100 yards. Personally I found my 32 to be a very touchy/finicky shooting rife. Much more than my 94 30-30 ever was. FWIW: a 4" grouping at 100 yards is unacceptable for a open site hunting rifle. But to many other owners it may be quite acceptable.

BTW: Congratulation's Sir on your new arrival.

The 32 Win. Spl. with it's slower 1-16 twist barrel needs more velocity to stabilize the bullet. The rifle/round is at it's best at full snort velocities. Still, it is a 94 carbine and you have the magazine tube and all those metal bands hanging onto the barrel to contend with.

As I was growing up in Texas, these lever action carbines were called "saddle guns". They were light and short to carry on a horse. They did that very well, but there was a price to pay in larger groups vis-s-vi the lever action rifle.

The 94 carbine is what it is and the fellow that shoots and totes one does so to have a short light gun.