Weatherby warning

[milkman]

FYI -
I recently bought a new-in-the-box Weatherby Vanguard 30-06. Cast bullets spray everywhere. I slugged the barrel and got .311 on 2 different calipers and the same from a gunsmith.
I couldn't believe that a modern, quality barrel would be that large. I contacted Weatherby and was told by John in the technical department that there was NO SPEC for groove diameter. They did have a .30205 spec for land-to-land diameter. I don't know what they are measuring with to get 5 decimal places, but I got .302 on my caliper, so I sent it back to them for evaluation.
They sent it back after 4 weeks with a sheet which said it met .30 cal specs.
Shoudda bought the Savage.

[45 2.1]

Use a cast bullet intended for the 303 British, such as the Lyman 314299. The nose will be large enough then. Most 30-06 chambers will accept 0.311" bullets and some a little larger. Take a fired case and flare with a punch slightly to remove any vestige of crimp. Measure the inside neck diameter with calipers. The caliper blades should scrape the inside of the case neck a little here. That is the diameter to size your bullet to. Let use know how it works out. This should give you accuracy with your new rifle.

[drinks]

I am afraid if I paid the price for a Weatherby and got something with a barrel like a $50 M38 or 44, I would say some very harsh things to Weatherby.
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[waksupi]

Milkman, being a brand new barrel, you need to do some break in. Shoot 4-500 jacketed bullets to smooth things out, or look at the thread on bore lapping.

[MOA Shooter]

FYI -
I recently bought a new-in-the-box Weatherby Vanguard 30-06. Cast bullets spray everywhere. I slugged the barrel and got .311 on 2 different calipers and the same from a gunsmith.
I couldn't believe that a modern, quality barrel would be that large. I contacted Weatherby and was told by John in the technical department that there was NO SPEC for groove diameter. They did have a .30205 spec for land-to-land diameter. I don't know what they are measuring with to get 5 decimal places, but I got .302 on my caliper, so I sent it back to them for evaluation.
They sent it back after 4 weeks with a sheet which said it met .30 cal specs.
Shoudda bought the Savage.

Yeup. The Savage was the right choice.

The 303 dia bullet will work if the throat is large enough. It might not be. Rare you see a 30 cal throat cut .311 and for cast it's best to be a thou or so over groove at the minimum in the throat. If that throat is under 311 it's a trader. The "my kid didn't like the recoil" excuse always works trading.


MOA.

[David R]

Doesn't weaterby have an accuracy guarentee?

[Johnch]

Doesn't weaterby have an accuracy guarentee?

When I had my 1 and only Weaterby (1998) , factory acceptably accurecy was 3" at 100 yards for a 300 Weaterby Mag.
I found this out after I called and complained about 3-4" groups with Weaterby ammo [smilie=b:

I quickly sold it and moved on

Hope you better luck with customer service than I did

Johnch

[milkman]

45 2.1 - Thats a new one, will measure a case neck and see. I have a lee mold that drops about .311. I might be able to make it work, if not will try the 303.

Wakisupi and david R - the darn thing shoots jacketed to about 1" at 100 yd, .309 cast to about 9", and the gurantee is only with Weatherby ammo.

[David R]

Milkman, I have some LEE soup cans that drop around .313. I also have the group buy C312 150 2R. I could send you either, might make you smile.

David

[HotGuns]

Weatherby barrels arent as accurate as just about any other manufacturers for one reason...freebore.

Its freebored to reduce pressure. As a result, the bullet dosent engage the rifling near as quick as any other brand of rifle barrel. This allows the bullet to enter into the rifling less than absolutley square and at longer ranges it becomes apparent.

Its the very reason that most accuracy buffs will load thier bullets as long as possible or just a few thousanths off of the lands.Loading "long" will contribute more to accuracy than jus about any other thing you can do to your reloads.

FWIW...in target matches that shoot for scores and money, you will not see any Weatherbys on the firing line...

[RugerFan]

Copied off the Weatherby site:

"Vanguard rifles come with a factory-shot target to guarantee accuracy of a 1½" 3-shot group at 100 yards using premium (non-Weatherby calibers) or Weatherby factory ammunition from a cold barrel."

I'm pretty sure I've seen that guarantee bounce back and forth betweeen 1 1/2 " and 3 " on their web site over the last year.

Walmart sells them for $388 so apparently the Vanguard is Weatherby's economy rifle. As I recall they come with a 90 degree bolt throw which I don't care for. I watched a co-worker shoot a new 30-06 Vangard at the range recently with factory (non-weatherby) ammo and got horrible groups - 4"-5".

I'll stick with Remington and Ruger rifles.

[milkman]

David R I might take you up on that. I have a lee that drops at about .312, let me try that unsized first and if it doesn't work will get back with you. thanks

[buck1]

Bad cust service is my #1 reason not to deal with a company! Thanks for the warning Miklman!!......Buck

[STP]

The Rem.700`s in 308 are freebored the same...seems Remington at one time offered a 200gr Condom bullet load. Can`t have some boob chambering that one in a "short throated" factory stick. Climbing on the bolt to chamber it would be insufficent enough warning for the lowest on the "smart" chain.

Loaded to "engage" the lands, most CB`s are barely seated in the necks.

[carpetman]

The Weatherby name on it doesn't mean quality. Take a look at the Weatherby Patrician shotgun. Aluminum receiver painted black. Not only that try to find a stock for one. Many years ago I looked for a stock for one and it wasn't available and had not been out of production all that long.

[Buckshot]

.............I would have a tendancy to be just a tad peeved, if it were me. Certainly there are SAAMI spec's for the 30-06 or any other modern non wildcat 30 cal all the way back to the 30-30. If it does have a .311" groove, I'll bet it has a .312" throat. The military has barrel dimension specs for the 30-06 and 308, and they're tighter then that.

Maybe Howa in Japan was making a run for Argentina and they had a "Whoopsie" in the factory somewhere :D?

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Once again I bring up the story of my friends brand new heavy barrel match Ruger 308 rifle. He put a T 16 Weaver scope on it (great scope by the way) and shot various match ammo, including handloaded and it wouldn't shoot tighter then 1 inch at 50 YARDS!!! We took it to my shop and I cleaned the bored and slugged it. It was .3095. We got a good laugh out of calling it a 303-08. He sent it back to Ruger and 3 weeks later got it back and they said it was within their factory tolerances. At that time I had a very good friend that was a full fledge gunsmith, started at building 1000 yard match rifles, then envolved into 45 1911 custom builds. He also had a rifling machine and turned out match barrels for rifles especially in 308. We told him about it and he said that was ridiculous. He cut his groove to .3075. Same story with another friend that had a 25-06 Ruger. Bore groove on it was .2589.

I think your Weatherby is way out of spec. That is totally unacceptable. I think I'd write them and tell they you are going to write every gunrag there is a letter and explain what you got from Weatherby, including the their terrible service. You just dealt with customer service, maybe go higher at Weatherby. I wouldn't just accept that it's a lousy barrel.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

I would be similarly disappointed at such a finding, for sure--but there are some good things going on here, too.

1) You indicate that j-word loads will do 1" @ 100 yards. Crossing one's fingers and doing a little extrapolating here.......that would equate to around 1.5" of radial dispersion at 300 yards. For a deer hunting rig, you're good to go, I'd say.

2) As a boolit caster, you have almost complete control of the dimensional element of your boolits vis-a-vis the bore environment. Get the specs on the throat, neck, and groove all together--and I'm sure that collectively we can come up with some samples that will get that rifle doing the right things with the poured ones.

Dimensional poetry is an unfortunate fact of life in mass-produced firearms these days. As casters, we have the ability to make these manufactured aberrations into usable tools.

[milkman]

Thanks all for the kind words, if those of you that I have seen weren't so darn ugly I might get the violin out and see if I couldn't get even more sympathy.

I think I'm going to vote with my feet as far as Weatherby is concerned. The remingtons and Savages that I have are superior rifles in every respect the this thing, but as I'm a newby at casting I think I will play with it and see if even I can learn something. Now that I'm about over my mad fit it might even be fun.

[1Shirt]

Milkman, Guess it is time for me to post my Weatherby Story. About 40 years ago I was at a Kansas Rifle Association meeting where Roy Weatherby was speaking. I was a young 3 stripe airman, and money was tight, but was still able to load and shoot thanks to cheap surplus powder, bullets, and primers from Hogdens just 40 mi away, and two 30 cal molds. The 340 Weatherby had just more or less hit the market.

I was introduced to Roy Weatherby by the local Weatherby dealer. I asked him about shooting cast bullets in the 340. He looked at me like "how could you ask such a stupid question", and his words to me were, "If you can't afford to shoot my factory ammo in my rifles, you don't deserve to have one!". It was like he was speaking to a lesser being, and I was sure not prepared enough to give him the bird and walk away. However I have told this story to many people over many years as the reason why I would never own a weatherby.

I now own a number of quality rifles, but they are Rugers! Had the occaision to meet Bill Ruger at an NRA convention and talk with him one on one for probably 5 minutes. A real gentleman. Most of the gun folks are real people, Weatherby to me was just a smuck!
1Shirt

[StarMetal]

Well that's something. I know people that knew Bill Ruger and said he was the biggest b**tard ever born. Even his own company people said he was a real SOB! I believe Roy did you like you said, but I'll take the Ruger story with a grain of salt. Sorry

Joe

[MOA Shooter]

[QUOTE=Weatherby barrels arent as accurate as just about any other manufacturers for one reason...freebore.QUOTE]


Not true. The old West German Sauer W's guns shot lights out. When that name meant high quality, at least machining wise.

Actually that freebored in reality ballseat of the W's in their calibers is condusive to cast accuracy. It's more or less how BR cast shooters throat their guns.

But an 06 would have a standard throating. If the gun is actually 3095 and it shoots jacketed to one inch that bore is likely very good for uniformity. Which makes a good cast gun.

1" guns are common nowdays. But still that's good for a factory gun no matter what someone mikes it at.

What Roy W knew about guns etc you could write on the head of a pin with a dull lead pencil. But he knew how to promote and kiss notable posterior sections.

Ruger has released some of the worst machined guns made. Actions threaded so far off center they can't be trued.


MOA.

[felix]

Yes, BR boolit guns are typically freebored to some extent, but usually not exceeding 0.100. The major problem with freeboring is the extension of the freebore channel during use. Match accuracy begins to wane at around 1000 rounds or earlier in some situations. Not for the average Joe who want his barrel to remain consistent over the long haul. ... felix