Newbie Question

[kardar2]

I have been reloading for over a year and now I am going to try my hand at bullet casting.I have most of the stuff molds , pot , ladle, furness, My question is the press, I was looking at the lee cause I have an old single stage press I could use but the Lyman press has a heater that plugs into the press. should I go with the $16 lee or should I go with $109 Lyman Thanks for all your input and have a very merry Christmas Regards
Kardar2

[ANeat]

The Lee sizer works good but you will still need a way to lube the bullets. The Lyman sizer will also lube. I guess a lot depends on the molds you have also. Lee tumble lube molds dont need sized most of the time.

[Scrounger]

With the $15 Lee you can size the bullet to whatever size the sizer is. You can lube the bullet before sizing by applying Lee Liquid Alox in a plastic bag or bowl and letting it dry a few hours before sizing. You can also lube by melting whatever lube you want to use in a flat pan and setting the bullets base down in it. When the lube has hardened, you can remove the bullets by pressing them out or using a brass case as a 'cookie cutter.' Then running the bullet through the sizer. You seem to be more familiar with the common Lyman and RCBS sizers. With them for each size/caliber bullet you cast, you will need to buy a sizing die and top plug, costing $20 to $25 each caliber. For a beginner, buying the Lee Sizer is a no brainer. You're only investing $15 total to be able to size and lube one caliber. It you like it, you can expand your collection of sizers to other calibers. If you don't like the method, then you can go ahead and invest the $140 or so it will take to get you going in one caliber with the Lyman or RCBS. I have been fooling around with cast bullets for 10 years or so. I began sizing on my friend's SAECO sizer, then bought one of my own. But before I started using it, I tried the Lee way and (Just my opinion) found it so much quicker, easier and cheaper, that I have stayed with it. I have bought Lyman/RCBS sizers 4 or 5 times but I always talk myself out of using them and sell them and stay with Mr. Lee.

[Lloyd Smale]

I go the other route. Ive never been a fan of tumble lube. It works well for low velocity plinking bulltes but i prefer a conventionaly lubed bullet for most work. Scrouger has a good point though. Your not out much to try the lee system. When you buy a sizing die from them they even give you a bottle of lube and that bottle will lube ALOT of bullets. The lee dies are handy to have anyway. If a guy wants to take say a 359 sized and lubed bullet down to 358 theres no faster way. So it isnt like you wasted your money if you dont like it. Also keep in mind that this is my opionion and lots of guys on here swear by tumble lube for even rifle velocitys.

[BruceB]

The Lyman 450, in particular, is often found in excellent used condition at gunshows or auction sites.

I bought one at a local show for $35 with FOURTEEN sizing dies, but that was exceptional. At the last Big Reno Show, there were a couple of 450s around the $50 mark.

I've only dabbled occasionally with the Lee system, and find it cumbersome and messy. It's my belief that you'll be better-served with a proper lube-sizer over the long haul, but I'm kinda production-oriented (although not to the extent of buying a Star lube-sizer). A specific nose punch for each bullet is not needed, once you have a few different ones on hand. I use over seventy moulds, and have only about a dozen or so varied top punches. Starting out, it is a good idea to have the proper punch for each design, but as "stuff" accumulates, this becomes increasingly less-important in my experience.

Whatever system you choose, I STRONGLY recommend that your initial sizing efforts in ANY caliber should be with a die a couple of thousandths larger than the commonly-accepted diameter for the caliber. This means sizing at .310 or .311 in .30-caliber, .431 for .44s, .359 for .38/.357, etc.

[murph]

Bruce,
I'm a newbie here. Like your comments.

What you size to is somewhat dependent on the alloy used isn't it? That is, if you are using a softer ally, it will obdurate easier so you can be at and maybe even a bit under barrel diameter. I am currently casting at 22-23 brinnel and am keeping right on .001" over barrel size. If I go softer, Lyman #2 at 15 brinnel I can then size to barrel diameter for lower velocity stuff. At least this rule of thumb works for me at this point. Got some comments on this?

Also, I am trying to locate an old lyman mold 454626, the old two part mold. I have the versions for .38 and .44 and have excellent results with them. Wanted to try them for .45.

[rmb721]

Under barrel diameter will create a leading problem. It is usually best to stay at least .001" above barrel diameter.

[montana_charlie]

I was looking at the lee cause I have an old single stage press I could use but the Lyman press has a heater that plugs into the press.
Your question seems to indicate that you are going to base your decision on that heater which is available for the Lyman.

Certain kinds of shooting call for very hard bullet lubes. Those hard lubes need to be heated to make them soft enough to work well in a lubrisizer.
Some guys have their reloading equipment set up in unheated rooms. A lube heater will bring the lube up to a usable condition on cold days.

If you know what kind of shooting you will be casting bullets for, tell us that.
Then we (someone) can say whether you will see much need for the heater.
You CAN buy the Lyman without it...you know.

CM

[mooman76]

Wecome Kardar2
You dindn't say what you intend to cast for, rifle or pistol. There is a difference but both can be done either way. I go with what some have stated and go with the Lee and then if you want later move up to the Lyman. I actually do both but mostly I do lee for the pistol and Lyman for rifle but that is not a hard and fast rule with me in fact I rarely size pistol bullets anymore and mostly just do rifle but I do,do the LLA (Lee liquid Alox) lube with the pistol.
Also on a note I have started doing Johnson Paste wax for lube as it is a little less messy and I think others find that it does as well as the LLA.

[BruceB]

Murph, amigo;

I've been at this for quite a while now, and for MY purposes K-I-S-S works pretty well.

About 95% of my shooting, rifle and handgun, uses wheelweight alloy. Most of my rifle bullets are water-dropped from the mould for ease of production but since I cast a lot of bullets at a time, usually over 1000, they can sit in storage for a long time, sometimes years. This means that hardnesses will vary all over the map as the bullets age-soften. It doesn't matter to me, and I own neither a hardness tester nor a lead thermometer (don't need a thermometer, when the pot is always set at flat-out maximum temperature).

Undersize bullets, as cast from moulds made by many makers who REFUSE to alter their dimensions, are one of the greatest banes of the entire hobby. It's a lot easier to size an existing bullet down a thousandth or two, than it is to fatten it up!

The further along I get in the hobby, the more I realize that my favored wheelweight alloy works for practically all except the most-specialized of uses. It will run quite happily well over 2000 fps in my rifles, and is equally happy in 700-fps .38 target loads. The few exceptions to my wheelweight bullets are occasional runs of softpoints, and occasional excursions into softer alloys for my .45-2.1 Shiloh.

While you're waiting for the two-part .45 mould to show up, take a look at "Freedom475's Buck n Bullets" down on the Hunting forum, second page. He used a cast softpoint to great effect. There's a long thread about casting softpoints "stickied" on the Molds: Maintenance and Design forum.

You'll note that I mentioned .310 or .311 for .30-caliber rifles. I presently shoot about a half-dozen .30s, including semi-autos, and ALL do well with .311 sizing. One of the best rules-of-thumb in this effort is, in most rifles, to use the LARGEST-diameter bullet that will still allow the bolt to close easily, and forget about the barrel diameter! In other words, fit the bullet to the chamber and throat, not the barrel.

Try not to overthink the minute details....it 'll save headaches and nightmares.

[kardar2]

Your question seems to indicate that you are going to base your decision on that heater which is available for the Lyman.

Certain kinds of shooting call for very hard bullet lubes. Those hard lubes need to be heated to make them soft enough to work well in a lubrisizer.
Some guys have their reloading equipment set up in unheated rooms. A lube heater will bring the lube up to a usable condition on cold days.

If you know what kind of shooting you will be casting bullets for, tell us that.
Then we (someone) can say whether you will see much need for the heater.
You CAN buy the Lyman without it...you know.

CM

It will be for .44, .38/.357, .45 and I do have my reloading bench set up in unheated garage and I do most of my reloading in the winter in northern Calif. (Redding) Thank for the replies

[MT Gianni]

I have found that a trouble light set next to the sizer gives all the softening that my lube will need. When I had a hard lube I used a magnetic engine block heater I paid $15 for. Gianni

[MLAKE]

I have both and use LEE for tumble lube boolits and the Lyman 4500 for conventionals. I always just get both if i cant make up my mind which one. Only problem I had with the Lyman was the piston was slammed in the bore with the two o-ring gaskets no in position and was a major deal getting it out and then back in (especially since the piston rolled off my flat bed i was working on and TOTALLY hid itself (several hours with a magnet several weeks later finally got it back!))

You wont waste money getting the lee one as the lube is included, the die is is usefull, and if you already have a press its the best way if your mould is a tl one. You have the money of the sizer dies as well as the 109 buck press. perhaps you can buy the Lee one and the wife can get the Lyman?

[calsite]

With the $15 Lee you can size the bullet to whatever size the sizer is. You can lube the bullet before sizing by applying Lee Liquid Alox in a plastic bag or bowl and letting it dry a few hours before sizing. You can also lube by melting whatever lube you want to use in a flat pan and setting the bullets base down in it. When the lube has hardened, you can remove the bullets by pressing them out or using a brass case as a 'cookie cutter.' Then running the bullet through the sizer. You seem to be more familiar with the common Lyman and RCBS sizers. With them for each size/caliber bullet you cast, you will need to buy a sizing die and top plug, costing $20 to $25 each caliber. For a beginner, buying the Lee Sizer is a no brainer. You're only investing $15 total to be able to size and lube one caliber. It you like it, you can expand your collection of sizers to other calibers. If you don't like the method, then you can go ahead and invest the $140 or so it will take to get you going in one caliber with the Lyman or RCBS. I have been fooling around with cast bullets for 10 years or so. I began sizing on my friend's SAECO sizer, then bought one of my own. But before I started using it, I tried the Lee way and (Just my opinion) found it so much quicker, easier and cheaper, that I have stayed with it. I have bought Lyman/RCBS sizers 4 or 5 times but I always talk myself out of using them and sell them and stay with Mr. Lee.
I've been reloading with a lee press for years and just bought a lee lubersizer for my .430 mould. I have been quite impressed with most all of their products. I definately want to get a Keith style iron mould eventually and will probably have to try that pan lube technique out.

[murph]

Bruce B.

I have done some experimenting with casting soft nose bullets, it works so I know it can be done. The two part mold is somewhat less work, and the nose section can be used with other molds, which I have tried and that works well too.

When I want a larger bullet drop out I harden the mix. I have found that linotype will cast about .004" larger diameter than #2 lyman and softer alloy, but amount of over size depends some on the caliber I am casting for anyway. If I water quench linotype I get up to close to 30 brinnel. That works will with soft nose casting and can be pushed right up there with jacketed and no loss of accuracy. I was casting and water quenching some .223 gas checked bullets with linotype and the gas check grove was so over size the cap wouldn't go on. Thank goodness for a mini lath and a steady hand, turned those little suckers down .003" and the gs goes on fine. They shoot pretty close to military ball. Able to get high 2000 fps with them.

[spurgon]

I found a Lymwn at a gun shop for $25. It came home with me.
spurgon