which target to use with peep sight

[deerspy]

I have a model 94 20" barrel and just installed peep sight would like to know what size of black bull would be best for 100 yard shooting?
the ones I have the bull is to small front bead covers it up completely or should I be trying to hold at bottom of bull, your thoughts on how to use a peep sight?

[NSB]

If you're trying to just shoot groups, use a white piece of paper and hold in the center of it. You don't need a bulls eye, your eye will center the bead on the paper. A 9" paper plate would probably work about right for this. If I were shooting a post front sight, I'd use any size bulls eye and just use a six o'clock hold.

[Old School Big Bore]

The textbook way to use a bullseye with post & peep is to hold at 6:00. You want a bull that appears close to the same width as the post at the distance you're shooting. With a silhouette, the hold is at center of mass. Remember there is no six o'clock on an animal so if you zero at 6:00 on a bullseye your point of impact will be half that bullseye high at that range. For a hunting zero the paper plate or silhouette of your animal is the best target. If you have not been trained with the peep, this is what you need to carve reversed into your forehead so you can read it in the mirror: 1. The eye will only focus at one distance at a time. 2. Therefore, look THROUGH the peep aperture, not AT it, focus on the FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT, and let the target blur. 3. The eye will center itself in the brightest area of the fuzzy-looking aperture (the middle). 4. Any peep sight diagram that shows the aperture, front sight and target all in focus is a LIE and needs to be burned before another budding marksman is ruined. My shooting career was delayed for decades thanks to some so-called 'instructors' back in the early '70s. Feel free to PM me w/any iron-sight questions.

[Char-Gar]

Use the smallest black bull you can see well enough to balance it on top of the front sight. The smaller your target, the smaller your group, because you will have to concentrate more on the sight picture.

For a hunting rifle, I zero it to slide the bullets just over the top of the front sight at my chosen distance. As the range extends I just move the front sight up a smidge to compensate for the drop.

If you are shooting targets for score, still hold at the bottom, but adjust the sights to put the bullet in the center of the target.

[Eutectic]

I suppose if your a kid with young eyes (not you Char-Gar!) just about anything will do for target shooting with open sights.... BUT.....

If you are an old guy like me..... Then high contrast is the secret!

Maybe ten years ago now I missed a blue grouse at 25 yards standing on top of a log.... Not once but twice! Now I'm a good handgun shot; and the K-22 Smith I had would take their head off every shot at 25 yards!

It was old eyes in the dark woods with no contrast. I have worked on it ever sense! I took a fine brush with fluorescent paint and painted the front sight blade and outlined the rear notch. WOW! Look out grouse!

NSB has the best idea for rifles. For a bead front sight I'll smoke the bead a dull black with a candle flame. My targets are opposite. In other words a white aiming point against a black background. I size the white bull for the yardage to just give a very slight white ring even all around the front bead. Like an eclipse. You can shoot amazing groups even with old eyes this way. I hunt with a bead to hit center of the bead. 6 0'clock holds are really tough for standard bead fronts in the woods with bad contrast. At least with a large round bead...

When I got my first lever gun some 60+ years ago (A Winchester Model 92 .38-40) I HATED the pyramid shaped front sight blade... Somebody back then told me it was not nice to hate things and they were right!

Last year I used those same sights (some fluorescent paint on the pyramid blade face) to kill a huge bull elk with that same Model 92 .38-40! I saw good enough to put a .38-40 through his heart not once but twice! This sighted to hit top of pyramid.

Contrast is the secret!

Eutectic

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use 2" squares of black paper at 50 yards and 3" squares at 100 yards. You can also use pieces of 2" blue masking tape cut 2" long.

With the post front sight you try to get the front sight the same width as the square at your chosen distance, and that way you cut down on the windage error.

Then by setting the square on top of the front sight with little or no light between them you establish where the gun is shooting. With a 3" square at 100 yards if the bullet hits the center of the square you will be 1.5" high at 100 yards.

Now if you have a bead front sight you will have to decide which sight picture you want to use, Either a 6 O'clock hold or having the bead covering the place you want the bullet to hit.

The whole key to making this work is to remember which sight picture yields the hits, but as stated above by OSBB the front sight is all that matters. that is the key to the whole show,,, Concentrate on the Front Sight. They even have a shooting school called Front Sight. It's called that for a reason.

I just finished winning my clubs Rimfire Silhouette championship for last year using an open sighted Mauser rifle. The trick with open sights is to develop a cheek weld that allows you to have your front and rear sight aligned before you address the target, and then it is only a matter of putting the front sight where it needs to be to yield the hit. That sight picture is what you are looking for.

The same holds true with aperture sights except you don't have to line up the front and rear sight as your eye automatically does this for you. However you must still put the front sight where it yields the "Sight Picture" that yields the hit. Also with the Aperture Sight choosing a aperture size that allows the front sight to be in focus (with your old eyes ) when you look thru it is a big help. For this reason I use Merit adjustable apertures on my silhouette guns. I might add that the setting for these apertures changes during the day as the light changes.

If you are hunting at close range the best idea is a Ghost Ring rear sight (really big hole) as it will obstruct your view of the target the least amount. If you are hunting at longer ranges with Iron Sights then do so during the day so you can see what you're shooting at! :veryconfu

I would also recommend that you consult and read Military Manuals on sighting in a Garand Rifle. The use of aperture sights on rifles is a lot more involved than simply putting the front sight on the target and pulling the trigger. There are ways to sight in a rifle that will allow precise changes to the rear sight, that will yield predictable results at virtually any range, and learning about this stuff is not only interesting but very enjoyable, and when it all comes together you look really cool doing it.

I am still learning how to do all this, but at least now I know what I'm trying to accomplish and believe me there is a lot to know, but suffice to say, this has been SOP for military shooters for 100+ years and it still works just as well today as it did back in the day.

Researching the subject will open many new doors to the average shooter, and much new success.

Hope this helps.

Randy

[deerspy]

thanks to all, I got a lot better sense of what I need to do, I just shoot paper but I like to score it seams to give me a sense of accomplishment, guess I need to find out what target is used for competition using a peep sight at 100 yards and practice shooting for score on it.

[dtknowles]

If you are trying to shoot for groups, I agree that small square dark targets are a good choice. Put the small square right on top of the front sight. If you are practicing field positions I would pick a 6 or 8 inch bullseye and sight the gun to put the bullet right at the top of the front sight. Actually that works for either type of target. That means your groups will be at the bottom of the square but so what it is group size that matters not location.

For the field position shooting I pick a bigger target because my aim wanders more sitting or standing than off the bench and my goal is to keep all the bullets in the black. For me with a hunting rifle without a scope keeping them all in the 8 inch black Bullseye standing is hard but good practice, sitting not so hard.

Tim

[fouronesix]

I have a model 94 20" barrel and just installed peep sight would like to know what size of black bull would be best for 100 yard shooting?
the ones I have the bull is to small front bead covers it up completely or should I be trying to hold at bottom of bull, your thoughts on how to use a peep sight?

First off, the front bead is not the best for accurate target shooting. The smallest front square top blade that is clear to your eye is the best, IMO. For most precise hold with the front blade, hold the top edge of the blade against the bottom edge of a medium sized bull. I like about a 3-4" bull at 100" (what most call a 6 O'clock hold). But again, it depends on your eyes.

Second, what type "peep" sight do you have and where is it mounted? The shorter sight radius, the less inherent accuracy there will be. The longer the radius the more inherent the accuracy. A barrel mounted peep, while it looks clearer to most eyes, has a shorter sight radius (many of these are called ghost ring because a clear definition of the peep sight itself becomes a blurry "ghost ring". A tang mounted peep, while it has the blurriest surround (outer edge of the peep opening) has the longest sight radius. A receiver mounted peep is usually a good compromise. The size of the peep opening will depend on where it is mounted- tang, receiver or barrel. Wherever the peep is mounted, the front sight image and target bull, should not be distorted by the surround edge but just large enough so the front sight and the bull are clear.

[BCRider]

I like the idea of Char-Gar where he uses the bead as a sort of round topped blade sight with the bullet hole appearing right on the edge of the bead right at the 12 o'clock position. For general shooting at varying distances and varying targets this seems like the one which would provide the best accuracy.

For regular target shooting at a set target and distance the 6 o'clock hold has much to recommend it. It gives a slightly better reference to sight to. It's just not good unless you're shooting that target all the time and at the same distance. OR you need to make or find other targets that have the correct size black bull for different distances.

[Maven]

"If you are an old guy like me..... Then high contrast is the secret!"

Amen to that, eutectic!

[BCRider]

I gotta agree on the big and high contrast targets. Especially for use with non-magnifying sights and old guy eyes. I found that I reduced my group size just by switching to some Shoot-N-C targets stuck on clean white paper by a good 30% with NO other change.

Being a cheap bugger I was using my own printed targets before that where I was playing with various patterns in the middle area to give me a darker grey like shading that still let me see the bullet holes through my scope. Then I played with blobs of red paint from a spray bomb. But they were all barely useable at 100 and faded to a suggestion at 200. Switching to the dead black targets on white changed this and gave me something I could actually see.

For 100 yards I use the 6 inch version. For 200 and 300 I use their 12 inch target. With the pasters that come with the targets I can get up around 20 to 30 shots out of the rather expensive 12 inch target before it's a mess. The darn things are about a buck and a half each for the 12 inch ones but it turned out that it was well worth it.

[fouronesix]

All the high contrast targets (and sights for that matter), especially the fluorescent ones, do for me is add a bunch of fuzzy glare to the sight picture. I guess if you can't see, get a scope and for sure don't hunt or drive on the highway.

[TCLouis]

+1 for what Char-Gar said.

Depends on use/final use.

[pdawg_shooter]

I always figured the best target for peep sights was a running deer or coyote.

[TXGunNut]

Good thread, very timely for me. I'm relearning how to use peeps and resisted using the 6 o'clock hold but trying to cover an appropriate sized bull with the front sight is not working for my old eyes. I was taught to shoot bullseye using the 6 o'clock hold 20+ years ago and know the old school methods work quite well for traditional sights.

[Char-Gar]

Good thread, very timely for me. I'm relearning how to use peeps and resisted using the 6 o'clock hold but trying to cover an appropriate sized bull with the front sight is not working for my old eyes. I was taught to shoot bullseye using the 6 o'clock hold 20+ years ago and know the old school methods work quite well for traditional sights.

Balance the target bull on top of the front sight with the smallest possible sliver of light/white between the two.

[TXGunNut]

Balance the target bull on top of the front sight with the smallest possible sliver of light/white between the two.

That's exactly what I was taught, trying to see the target well enough to center the bead in the bull keeps the eye from focusing on the front sight.

[DeadWoodDan]

Yes, this is a subject I should have started myself, to stubborn to ask I suppose. I'm working w/ a Win. 94AE Trapper that I installed a Lyman peep sight on the side of the receiver. I have not felt comfortable using the factory front sight blade and have been debating on purchasing something new. I can focus very clearly on my Savage 99 with round gold bead.

Will give some thought and practice to what has been discussed here to see if I can do better. Also going to look for a book on shooting with peep sights.

Thanks
DWD

[wrench man]

Guess I'm one of the odd guys out when it comes to peep sights??, I opt for the SMALLEST front bead I can get, and a small aperture for the peep, I hold it dead center on the bull, I like the 8" shoot n see type targets.
The three big holes in this target were shot from my Marlin 444T with a 1/16" Marbles brass front bead, Williams .050" "Twilight" aperture in a Lyman LA66, with the above mentioned dead center hold.
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/ramblerinternational/guns/target.jpg (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/ramblerinternational/media/guns/target.jpg.html)

[BCRider]

What about using a peep rear and globe style front sight? Having played around with some single shot rifles set up with such sights I love how I can look down through the rear aperture and simply center the target in the ring of the front insert. It's a lot nicer than trying to put a front bead over top of a target which is visually smaller than the bead. And it avoids the issue of different size targets at different distances.

[Eutectic]

What about using a peep rear and globe style front sight? Having played around with some single shot rifles set up with such sights I love how I can look down through the rear aperture and simply center the target in the ring of the front insert.

We called that "double aperture" and a lot of the target shooters used that setup when I was young. I was taught back then that it was the most accurate sight alignment there was and I still believe that for iron sights. (Optical sighting (scopes) not included.)

The double aperture downfall is needing contrast to see well. I seen younger eyes use them hunting 50+ years ago but I never could tell the difference between the blacks, browns, and greens in the woods to get a good sight picture.

At around 50, my father went to a post in his Lyman 17 front sight saying he was having trouble seeing even with the black and white target.

Eutectic

[TXGunNut]

What about using a peep rear and globe style front sight? Having played around with some single shot rifles set up with such sights I love how I can look down through the rear aperture and simply center the target in the ring of the front insert. It's a lot nicer than trying to put a front bead over top of a target which is visually smaller than the bead. And it avoids the issue of different size targets at different distances.

I have that setup on my 32WS 94. Looks a little odd but shoots well, especially for my eyes.

[BCRider]

I hear you on the use of this double aperture setup in dim woods for hunting. But in well lit open areas it sure does make for a nice clear sight picture. In particular the small size rear aperture really sharpens up those "old guy eyeballs".... :D But it's that small rear aperture that cuts down the light so much.

For dimmer conditions I've been quite surprised on how well a larger rear aperture or ghost ring setup on the receiver works with a front post. Not a beat but a post. The rifle I shot a few times with that setup had the front post set up to put the bullet at the middle of the top line much like a direct aim handgun. And the ghost ring didn't attenuate the light much at all. For closer in hunting out to maybe 80 to 100 yards I'd have no issues using that setup at all. And it sure is fast to get a good sight picture.