Have you ever had to admit defeat?

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Have you ran across a rifle you just couldn't get to perform the way you think it should?
Or am I just not able to wring this one out with my current abilities?
When do you admit defeat and move on?
I've got 4 rifles that shoot cast great,
I have a 7mm-08 Handi rifle I'm about to turn into a tomato stake.

[Bohica793]

Have you:

Chamber cast it?
Slugged it?
Fire lapped it?
Sacrificed two chickens, a goat and the odd virgin under a pale, full moon?
Sought out professional help (for the gun, that is. Your condition is incurable.....)

[Doc_Stihl]

I had a rifle that I shot 25 different loads through. I tried 8 or 9 different boolits and couldn't get it to through better than a 4" group @ 100. Never much worse than 6" with anything I tried, but nothing closer. I tried different powders, alloys, sizing and nothing really changed it. I was looking for the next thing to try when I decided that I wasn't having fun anymore.
Shot jacketed just fine.
I have an 06 barrel for my Encore that shoots anything you feed it well. From 110gr @ 2200 to 240gr @ 1100. Just slings everything nicely.

[45 2.1]

Jim-
Will it shoot jacketed adequately? If it does, then do a impact throat slug and measure it, duplicate it with cast and it should shoot. I have a rifle that won't shoot jacketed under 2 MOA, but will shoot cast under 0.5 MOA with only one boolit. Several rifles I have only will shoot one boolit really well and the others shoot poorly. It's all about boolit fit. Maddening, isn't it....................

[CWME]

I have a 22 hornet Handi that I can't get to shoot. Gave up, it was becoming a chore to load and test for it. I was not having fun anymore and so I moved on.

[bobthenailer]

I was defeated with 2 contender barrels with cast boolets one was a 32/20 .308 bore the other was a 7mm TCU
i tried at least 2 boolets in each with many different powders and different boolet sizing dia , accuracy was mediocer but both shot jacketed bullets excellent.
Conversly all the cast boolets i tried in both calibers shoot excellent in my XP-100 in 7mm IHMSA and RPM XL in 30/20

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

After much tinkering with the rifle it will shoot jacketed acceptably.
Not benchrest, but average and inch at a 100.
Scope base is bedded to the barrel, helped,
for end work including bedding from lug to spacer, helped,
barrel bedded to the action, big help,
varying pressures on the for-end screw, and the spacer between the
action and for-end, settled it some.
I have not impact slugged it, but I did chamber cast with cero-safe & slugged the barrel. First mold
was too small as the barrel is over-sized. The second mold, is a NOE
288-407-FN lovern style (150 grain). If fits perfectly on the nose section and if sized at
.286" fills the throat. Un-sized @.288" it wont chamber.
Twist is 1:10
Tried tumble lubing with 45-45-10 which works great in my .308 & Argentine 7.65x53,
Tried Blue Angel hard lube in various number of grooves, tried Carnuba Red in various number of grooves.
Nothing seems to be locating a sweet spot.
The one thing I wonder about is if this boolit, being a Loverin style, does not have enough bearing surface to engage
the typical shallow rifling in the H&R's?
I even resorted to buying a .270 mold and paper patching it up. No joy- but, it was my first try at paper condoms.
I've tried alloys from 8.5 to 28 BHN, harder is better but still not something I would be comfortable to use in a hunting situation.
The intention when I bought this thing was to have a cheapo beater to carry around in the rig.
I've burnt up 2 bricks of primers and haven't made much progress except for de-kinking the mechanical issues that came from the factory.
The one odd thing I've notice in all of this, I never had any leading with all the stuff I've run through the pipe- go figure

I think I want to trade off the barrel and get a 357 barrel

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

One other thought I have, since my latest aquistion of a Buffalo Classic 45-70,
I did try the 7mm-08 barrel on that frame and it locks up REALLY nice.
I might take it to the range in that configuration and see what happens,
a 7mm-08 Buffalo Carbine :D

[ShooterAZ]

I had to admit defeat on a Mosin Nagant. The throat is so rough and corroded that it tore up my boolits upon firing. First couple of shots on target, then goes quickly down hill. It shoots jacketed OK though.

[dtknowles]

I have a 22 hornet Handi that I can't get to shoot. Gave up, it was becoming a chore to load and test for it. I was not having fun anymore and so I moved on.

I had a .22 Hornet Handi that would not shoot as well as I wanted. I gave it to my brother, he loves it. I bought a used .22 Hornet Ruger #3 to replace it. It is better but not great. It is a quest with more paths than we can take. Pick a path and proceed.

Tim

[Hickok]

I think ever so often a person will run into a rifle that needs an electric wire run up through the barrel and a light socket attached to the muzzle end. Then attach a base plate to the butt and a switch and use it for a unique standup lamp!:Bright idea:

Some guns can be a challenge, and some can be a curse!

[MT Gianni]

Jim, I have a 7.62x39 handi that does well with the Louverin 311466. I don't believe it is the boolit style.

[square butte]

Jim, Look on the bright side - There's nothing like good home grown tomatoes in the Flathead come late July and August. Thought maybe I could get a rise out of ya. On second thought - probably outa change that to read "green tomato chutney". Seems like the first frost was always along about August 17 or 18

[gwpercle]

Some times they become possessed by demons...then the only cure is to have a Priest perform an exorcisim and rid it of the evil spirits . After that , if it still won't shoot...give it to someone you don't like...then it's his problem!

[CPL Lou]

I had a 30-06 like that. After expending ALOT of ammo and trying every trick I knew, it turned out to be a scope that gave up the ghost sometime during the early stages of load development !
New scope turned my tomato stake into a sub moa shooter.

CPL Lou

[freebullet]

Lol, wait til you have one that won't shoot jacketed into 6moa, very frustrating. When it has sentimental (family pass down)value and you don't want to part with it. I never gave up, just take a break from playing with it. One day you'll think about it different and something will click and it will work out. Good luck.

[mpmarty]

Mine was a Remington 721 in 270 Winchester. To this day I won't own a Remington 7xx series rifle.

[stephenj]

Over the years i think i have had something like 6-8 enfields
Mk3 and mk4 's .... i have yet to get one to shoot any better then
4-5 moa .

I keep hearing tales of those one hole groups and 1 moa shooters
But i have yet to witness it ... a friend has one that is an honest 3moa shooter and its the best i have yet. To see one shoot .

But i bet that ill still talk myself into another one some day in my quest to find one that will shoot jacketed or lead in 2-3 moa

[oldfart1956]

Browning 92 in .44 magnum. By the time I get a boolit big enough to engage the rifling it's too big to fit in the chamber. Very fussy about nose shape as well, even some of the rnf designs are glitchy. The rate of twist is designed for 300gr. plus boolits apparently and I ain't going there. No way to mount optics (crappy eyesight) and the buckhorn sights inhale. Trigger pull is about 12 pounds. Shoots jacketed with max+ loads into tiny groups if you're foolish enough to take a beating like that. I'm not. Audie...the Oldfart..

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Cast 22 boolits. This is where I had to admit defeat. Two different molds, a number of alloys and two different center fire 22 rifles. I admit defeat on this one and tip my hat to anyone that can get those tiny little lead boogers to fly straight.

[uscra112]

Cast 22 boolits. This is where I had to admit defeat. Two different molds, a number of alloys and two different center fire 22 rifles. I admit defeat on this one and tip my hat to anyone that can get those tiny little lead boogers to fly straight.

Amen to that. Even sold all my moulds and everything associated therewith. So what happens? Last month an uber-rare Stevens Model 108 (1894 predecessor to the Model 44) drops into my lap, and what's it chambered for? .22 WCF. The predecessor to the Hornet. Anybody got a mould that drops .228?

[dtknowles]

Amen to that. Even sold all my moulds and everything associated therewith. So what happens? Last month an uber-rare Stevens Model 108 (1894 predecessor to the Model 44) drops into my lap, and what's it chambered for? .22 WCF. The predecessor to the Hornet. Anybody got a mould that drops .228?

I think you should send that rifle to me so you don't get frustrated. I will beagle my mold and get that beast shooting. If it old enough we don't even need to involve an FFL. What do you need for surety?

Tim

[Land Owner]

I have a different "problem" of my own making. I purchased a business associate's Estate and quadrupled my arsenal, which was not small at the time. I am faced with too many toys all at one time, not that that by itself is a bad thing. I believe it may take the rest of my days to wring out accuracy in 6 new and different calibers across dozens of new pistols, revolvers, and long guns. So it has become a Fish or Cut Bait sort of daily question, which gun gets wrung out this day/week/month/year (in the interstitial spaces between my day job, family, and sleep) including new cases, powders, boolit moulds, reloading, range testing and the whole 9-yards. Then there are additional calibers that I want to own but have, in the "short run", been diverted from purchasing and the process repeats...what a hobby!

[308w]

Land owner since I too am a Floridian, you could just hire me to work out loads in all your new arsenal. I could retire from my current job and while it would be a lengthy endeavor, I could get all your new found irons shooting their best. It would be a sacrifice but it would be for a good cause!!!

[Char-Gar]

Have you ran across a rifle you just couldn't get to perform the way you think it should?
Or am I just not able to wring this one out with my current abilities?
When do you admit defeat and move on?
I've got 4 rifles that shoot cast great,
I have a 7mm-08 Handi rifle I'm about to turn into a tomato stake.

Victory or defeat depends on what your goals are. My goal has been to get any rifle to shoot cast bullets as well, but not necessarily at the same velocity, as jacketed bullets. With that as my goal, I have never been defeated. Set some higher goal and I might be defeated.

Rifles are individuals and are not the same, even of the same caliber. One must consider the twist of the rifling, the interior smoothness of the bore, the specs of the chamber and so forth. While each of these need to be considered, each of them can be dealt with.

One of the big problems I have noticed about this board is folks tend to do an information dump on folks with issues and mention every possible issue that might comes up without consideration of the relative importance of each. This makes it difficult for folks to sort through it and chart a linear course to success.

This stuff isn't near as hard as some folks make it appear.

[Char-Gar]

I have a different "problem" of my own making. I purchased a business associate's Estate and quadrupled my arsenal, which was not small at the time. I am faced with too many toys all at one time, not that that by itself is a bad thing. I believe it may take the rest of my days to wring out accuracy in 6 new and different calibers across dozens of new pistols, revolvers, and long guns. So it has become a Fish or Cut Bait sort of daily question, which gun gets wrung out this day/week/month/year (in the interstitial spaces between my day job, family, and sleep) including new cases, powders, boolit moulds, reloading, range testing and the whole 9-yards. Then there are additional calibers that I want to own but have, in the "short run", been diverted from purchasing and the process repeats...what a hobby!

You don't have a time problem or a shooting problem, you have an addiction problem. However it is common to folks on this board. With time, you will learn to set priorities and concentrate on the few firearms that truly interest you. Guns are like women, sooner or later you will have to make a choice as trying to have them all, leads to a bad end.

[cbrick]

I was defeated with 2 contender barrels with cast boolets one was a 32/20 .308 bore the other was a 7mm TCU. i tried at least 2 boolets in each with many different powders and different boolet sizing dia, accuracy was mediocer but both shot jacketed bullets excellent.
Conversly all the cast boolets i tried in both calibers shoot excellent in my XP-100 in 7mm IHMSA and RPM XL in 30/20

Yep, the throats in T/C barrels aren't called Linda Lovelace throats for nothing. T/C intentionally deep throats them to decrease pressure on the Contender frame, that may be a good thing but it does present problems trying to get cast to shoot well with that huge jump to the rifling. The XP and the XL both shoot the same calibers well because of a normal throat.

Rick

[Land Owner]

...you have an addiction problem...to have them all, leads to a bad end.

Oh yeah! I have an addiction alright. It is the Best of times. It is the Worst of times. Don't feel badly for me. I am just wallowing in my own self pity. I should take advantage of 308w. Think he would "work for lead"?

[Toddlo]

I'm fairly new to casting and reloading for that matter, but have you ever tried playing with Cartridge Overall Length (COL) on your cast loads for that 7mm-08? I wrestled with my Model 43 Win 22 Hornet for a while with a 34 grain Jacketed HP I bought (because of the price for 500) that would not group well, although it did shoot other, heavier jacketed bullets well. I finally started playing with the COL on it and found I could get it to shoot under 1" groups at 100yds by going from 1.725" to 1.80". I couldn't load them in the mag anymore, because of the length, but I shoot groundhogs with it so no biggie. Maybe take your best "bad load" and give it a try to see if it improves at all.

[texassako]

I never thought I would end up with a gun that would not shoot, but I am about ready to admit defeat and rebarrel an old '95 Winchester. It just refuses to shoot anything for some reason. Slow, fast; jacketed, cast; light or heavy bullets. It refuse to budge from its blunderbuss patterns.

[Char-Gar]

Oh yeah! I have an addiction alright. It is the Best of times. It is the Worst of times. Don't feel badly for me. I am just wallowing in my own self pity. I should take advantage of 308w. Think he would "work for lead"?

I don't feel badly for you as I am a recovering gunaholic myself.

I have had a life long preference for 30 caliber rifles because in my salad years, the army used the 30-06 and the cowboys used the 30-30 and that was all I needed to know. I strongly lean toward the 30-30, 30-40, 308W and the 30-06. I do have other calibers, but seldom shoot them anymore.

I have four 308s, two Winchester 88 leverguns, one Savage boltgun and a Remington 700 VS. They all do very well with cast bullet. All have 1-12 twist barrels, save the Savage who has a 1-10 twist. The only negative on the 308 Win. is the short case neck which limits the number of bullet designs that work well in it. But that are some that do very well such as the RCBS 165 Sil.

I tend to prefer the 30-06 over the 308 Win not because the round is superior, but I just like some of the rifles chambered for that round (1903, 1903A3, 1917, Garand and so forth)

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Well, my method has been to play with it, try stuff, and when the frustration takes over, hang it up for a while.
Then, if I read something here I havent thought of or tried, I take it down and try it.
I am giving serious thought to finding a 357 barrel and having it reamed to 356 Winchester.
I like the 358Win, but I like a rimmed cartridge for single shots, and the brass thickness of the 356 is
a little thicker, making the inside case capacity a touch more cast friendly

[308w]

Land owner that just might be a good deal on my end, lol!!!

[BCB]

My 223 Remington shot in the Super 14" and Super 16" Contender barrels...

Forget it, forget it, forget it...

But both of those barrels will shoot Hornady V-max like there is no tomorrow...

No tomato stake of them--But no cast boolits either...

Good-luck...BCB

[Lead melter]

Yep, been down this road too. My curse was a Savage 110 in .243 Winchester. I spent several months trying to get it to shoot consistently. One day it would punch 1/2" groups, the next day groups would open up to 3-4" with same load, same rest, same range, etc. No reason for the dispersion that I could ever find.

When I finally gave up on the little bugger, I wrapped a $20 bill around the barrel before heaving it out the window of my truck. I figured if someone found the gun beside the road, at least it would have something worth picking up.

[Hickok]

I have a 22 hornet Handi that I can't get to shoot. Gave up, it was becoming a chore to load and test for it. I was not having fun anymore and so I moved on. The .22 Hornet has been one of the most finicky calibers I have ever loaded for. Worked with 2 different Hornets and they were like a woman with PMS.

I think the long slopping shoulder adds to the hassle. I did find pistol primers really helped grouping. One Hornet was a Ruger heavy barrel bolt action. It wouldn't shoot until I made a shim and put between the two piece bolt to tighten up the slop. Then it was a tack driver. The other was a Savage that had a long chamber and a long throat. After I fireformed cases so the shoulder moved forward a bit, and seated boolits out long, it shot good. Headspacing with the rim didn't work well, but when I used the shoulder to headspace it was fine.

I would rather have a .22 K-Hornet if I had a choice.

[JSnover]

A H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70. I think it will hold better than 2 moa. Problem is there isn't enough windage to get it on the paper beyond 40 yards. By the time I gave up, the warranty was well beyond void. It's been locked away for about five years. Maybe I'll try again some day...

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

the first 3 shots I ever fired from my Buffalo Classic :) and I bought it used
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/first-3-45-70-2-11-14_zps8e5045d4.jpg

[Land Owner]

That right there looks like the epitome of defeat...

[Jack Stanley]

I had a Ruger number three that shot pretty well ... the problem was it refused to put the group in the same spot from one day to the next !! Not a good thing for an aledged woodchuck rifle .

It is someone elses problem now , life is to short to fight with some things .

Jack

[bbqncigars]

The only gun that caused me to raise the white flag was a TC Contender that I bought the first month it was available in .30Herrett. I tried every combination of powder/bullet/boolit/primer over a period of 25 years. The damned thing would not do better than 4moa when my Ruger SBH would put a cylinder full into 1.5moa all day and every day. I'm considering having the barrel rechambered, but then again, I might scrap it.

[dverna]

Another Handi-rifle in .22 Hornet that would not even shoot jacketed. I gave up on it. Life is too short to deal with the frustration.

Don Verna

[TXGunNut]

Yes. I once had a Marlin 30-30 that simply would not shoot no matter what I did. I removed the brand-new scope and bases, reinstalled the rear sight and traded it for a NIB Colt (along with a generous handful of cash). It was a shame, one of the slickest Marlin 336's I've owned.
One day, several months later, I mounted that same scope on a rifle that was a good shooter but it was hampered by a cheap scope had begun to fog up. Lo and behold, the accurate rifle began to behave just like the one I had traded off. Sad thing is, a trip back to the mfg hasn't helped this scope. It's around here somewhere waiting for a return trip. :-(

[rintinglen]

I've had two rifles over the years that wouldn't play nice.
One was a 30-06 Winchester 670 that refused to put three bullets together. It would put two touching, then one two inches high, then another left an inch or two, then another someplace else. then the next group would vary the pattern, start out high, then low, consistently inconsistent. Tried two different scopes, probably 15 different loads. Finally gave up. What was aggravating was that I had a bolt action Savage 30-30 that would shoot into 2 inches all day and into the night. I paid exactly a third of what I paid for the Winchester for the Savage. It wasn't very smooth, but it would shoot..

I also had a 32=40 Winchester 94 that wouldn't shoot, but there the bore told the story, there are corn cobs with smaller pits and smoother surfaces.

[A pause for the COZ]

Have you ran across a rifle you just couldn't get to perform the way you think it should?

Yes... I have a 2 Groove Long Branch 303 British that I am currently in a love hate relationship with.
I have yet to get any cast bullet to shoot worth a darn and I have had many that will key hole the target.
Best I have done is a 6 inch pattern.
This thing shoots Jwords inside 1.5 inches at 100 yards. But who cares about that?
Tough to find the right cast bullet combo. It has .303 bore and .317 grooves. But the throat is .316

After it has sit for 6 mos. I am about ready to try again.

#1 Chamber cast
#2 Paper patch?
#3 Powder Coated bullets.

So not done yet.

[taco650]

Have you ran across a rifle you just couldn't get to perform the way you think it should?
Or am I just not able to wring this one out with my current abilities?
When do you admit defeat and move on?
I've got 4 rifles that shoot cast great,
I have a 7mm-08 Handi rifle I'm about to turn into a tomato stake.

Don't turn it into a tomato stake, just sell the barrel & get something else to put on your frame. I might get flamed for saying this but its just a piece of machined, polished and blued steel. If you're not happy, move on or use it for j-words. Guess you could also get it bored to a .338-08 by JES.

[JesterGrin_1]

Yep I had one a Marlin 1894 SS in .44 Mag. I am a bit hard headed in not wishing to give up. So it took over 600 test rounds to finally figure out to give up lol. I had this wild thinking that I could make hunting loads that would shoot 1" or better at 100 yards with a scope lol. The best I could ever do is 2 1/4-2 1/2" at 100 yards.

I sold it and got a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70. The best thing I ever did. :)


Ask 44Man about his love of the Marlin 1894 .44 Mag lol. I think his is now a Tomato plant stake lol.