Cast .38s

[George Mabry]

My very limited casting experience has been with 200 grain .45s but I want to start casting .38s. The mould I'm looking at is a Lee, double cavity that is described as a 158 Grain Tumble Lube 2 Ogive Radius. Attached is a photo of the bullet. I've never seen a cast bullet with all those small grease grooves and I have no idea what a "2 ogive radius" is. Does anyone use this style of bullet? Am I correct in assuming that his particular design is not good for pan lubing? I like the looks and am thinking of getting this mould but I only have experience with the 2 grease ring design.

[Guesser]

That is Lee's "tumble lube" design. I suggest you go to Lee's site and read up on the process and procedure.

[RickinTN]

George,
That bullet, or that style bullet is designed for Lee liquid Alox and tumble lubing. Many folks, including myself actually use 45-45-10, which is 45% Alox, 45% "rendered" Johnson's paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits, which thins the mix a little. Tumble lubing is a pretty quick process for lubing several bullets at a time. I have not tried lubing a tumble lube design any other way, but I'm sure some have and can give you an idea as to how it works. If I were going to lube with a lube-sizer or pan lube and wanted a standard lube groove I would look closely at the Lee 158 RF bullet.
Good Luck,
Rick

['74 sharps]

Tumble lube is a quick procedure and works well. Doesn't have to be a TL bullet with the fine grooves to be lubed with alox. I use the White Label lube straight and sparingly on a Lyman #358665 unsized flat nosed large lube groove bullet and it works just fine in my 38's & 357's.

[Boolseye]

The Lee TL358-158SWC (tumble lubed semi-wadcutter)is a favorite of many, myself included, in .38 spl. and .357 mag. Can't speak for the RN, 2 ogive bullet that you mention. I use 45-45-10, too (see the sticky in the lube forum for the exact recipe). Pan lubing will not work well for TL (tumble lubed) boolits.

[KYCaster]

A "One Radius Ogive" will look like half a round ball joined to a wadcutter body. A "Two Radius Ogive" has the shape of an arc whose radius is two times the radius of the bullet shank.

Here ya go........Everything you always wanted to know about ogive but were afraid to ask:

http://mathscinotes.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/ballistics-ogives-and-bullet-shapes-part-1/

Jerry

[DxieLandMan]

[QUOTE=Boolseye;2668385]The Lee TL358-158SWC (tumble lubed semi-wadcutter)is a favorite of many, myself included, in .38 spl. and .357 mag.

I use this one too and I am pleased with the results. Using Alox lube, I put boolits in a coffee can, add lube and shake them and allow to dry.

[bangerjim]

I have pretty much every 38 cal mold Lee makes in both standard and microgroove designs. This is an excellent boolit. I used to tumble lube it with great success. You can tumble lube ANY boolit, not just these. The microgrooves just attract and hold the liquid a little better than standard wide grease grooves.

During the past 9 months, I have switch totally to powder coating all my boolits, eliminating the need for grease lubes of any kind. And also eliminated leading 100%.

But you will find TL'ing with 45/45/10 a very fast and efficient way of getting a grease coating on any of your boolits.

You will like that mold.

As far as ogive......it's all math, my friend. Check out that link above!

banger

[mdi]

You can pan lube T/L bullets with fair to good results. I have tried it, and if I don't try to size after lubing, the work pretty good, but there's not a lot of lube there to work with. I prefer to dip lube my T/L bullets in 45-45-10 which has worked quite well all the way to magnum velocities...

[Double B]

Ditto to Dxielandman, it is a good shooting bullet. TL designs work well for beginners as no sizing or fancy lubing process is necessary. Just tumble in coffee can or cool whip bowl and load em up after they dry.

[George Mabry]

Thanks for all the input. I just placed my order with Midway for the 158 grain, TL bullet.

George

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

George,

I am not a Lee or tumble lube person, started casting way before that idea got started and personally don't even like the thought of it.

However, be that as it may, the style of Lee mold that you show in your post is one that is not known for good longevity. Poor design in the pins and grooves that align the two halves of the mold blocks..

I know, I know, many folk will disagree, but yes I have been there and used those and DON'T.

Lee has recently redesigned at least some of their single and 2 cavity molds to a much better system, such as used by most other mold makers.

I'd suggest that instead of buying a Lee 2 cavity mold, that you pay a small amount more and buy a Lee 6 cavity mold.

While the Lee six cavity mold is NOT of the quality of good custom molds, they are a great improvement over the old single and 2 cavity type.

I have a number of the 6 cavity molds and they are a reasonable value for the dollar spent. In fact, I wish they had a good bullet style in the 6 cavity for the .44. They don't.

Look around and find a good used Lyman or RCBS bullet sizer/lubricator and forget the tumble lube.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Jupiter7]

If tumble lubing is in your future. I suggest contacting member buckshot for a push thru sizer after slugging the guns. Also buy jug of 45/45/10 from http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31. It is easy to do, easier with better products.

[alamogunr]

A "One Radius Ogive" will look like half a round ball joined to a wadcutter body. A "Two Radius Ogive" has the shape of an arc whose radius is two times the radius of the bullet shank.

Here ya go........Everything you always wanted to know about ogive but were afraid to ask:

http://mathscinotes.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/ballistics-ogives-and-bullet-shapes-part-1/

Jerry

Thanks for the link, Jerry. I bet I'm not the only one that appreciates an easy to understand explanation of bullet shapes and terminology. I've always felt that I understood what people were talking about when they used various terms but there was always that doubt. Now all I have to do is figure out how to calculate the volume of a boolet. I'm not sure I've got the patience to calculate the lube groove volume to be subtracted.

[George Mabry]

Thanks for the reply Coot. Since I've already ordered the mold, that double cavity will be my first .38 but I doubt my last .38 mold.

Jupiter7, I made some 45-45-10 and tried it on my cast .45s. It worked well. Certainly an improvement over tumbling with straight LLA. I like the concept of pan lubing but my first attempt at it last week left a lot to be desired. I'll give the pan lube another go in a week or so and see if I can avoid some of the mistakes I made the first time around. Thanks for the reply.

George

[rhead]

Thanks for the link, Jerry. I bet I'm not the only one that appreciates an easy to understand explanation of bullet shapes and terminology. I've always felt that I understood what people were talking about when they used various terms but there was always that doubt. Now all I have to do is figure out how to calculate the volume of a boolet. I'm not sure I've got the patience to calculate the lube groove volume to be subtracted.


1: Attach a length of thread to the base of the boolit with a small speck of super glue. (as near the center as you can so it will hang straight)

2: Suspend the boolit in the air with your powder scale. (This may take a little imagination depending on your scale design).

3: Weigh the boolit and record the weight.

4: Suspend the boolit in a glass of water and weigh it again.

5: obtain the difference in the weights.

The difference is the volume of the boolit in grains of water which is probably what you have your case volume in.

if you want the volume of the part of the boolit below the crimp groove carefully remove water from the glass until the water level is even with the crimp groove and weigh again. The weight loss in grains is the volume of the nose part of the boolit in grains of water. Do the math to figure the shank of the boolit. If your eyes are good enough the thread can be attached to the nose of the boolit. It is difficult for me to get it centered on that end. You will get the volume of the shank instead of the nose that way.

1 grain = .06479891 cubic centimeters
1 cubic centimeter= .0610237441 cubic inches

If you want the volume in some other unit Google is your friend

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hey George, don't despair with all the technical info, making good cast bullets and good hand loads doesn't need to be that technical! Been doing it since the 60s.

WOW guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good thing there are folk that like and yes need to do and go the extra mile with experimentation, But I'm not one of them.

I don't need to know how make some product and exactly what it contains, I just need to know how to make it work.

Same with me and cast bullets. There are many well proven styles and designs out there and they are good enough for me without figuring out how and why.

No offense meant or implied to you smart folk, glad your out there and I'll tag along back here in the shadows and benefit from your discoveries, but I just don't need to know ALL the how and why.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have that same mold, it must be 20 years old. I have made several 1000 boolits with it. For tumble lubbing I use a whipped topping container, it has a rounded bottom and that makes it very easy to swirl around and flip gently to coat with lee liquid alox. I can do about 50 to 75 38 boolits at once. Just put the boolits in the container then squeeze a little LLA on them and do what it said above. I then spread them out on a piece of wax paper and let them dry. After I have done this I put the container lid back on, and put it up for the next session, don't clean it out though.

[45-70 Chevroner]

[QUOTE=George Mabry;2669768]Thanks for the reply Coot. Since I've already ordered the mold, that double cavity will be my first .38 but I doubt my last .38 mold.

Jupiter7, I made some 45-45-10 and tried it on my cast .45s. It worked well. Certainly an improvement over tumbling with straight LLA. I like the concept of pan lubing but my first attempt at it last week left a lot to be desired. I'll give the pan lube another go in a week or so and see if I can avoid some of the mistakes I made the first time around. Thanks for the reply.

George[/QUOTE
I have tried pan lubbing also, but that was a long time ago. I will never go back. Pan lubing was, simply, to much trouble, I am sure there are plenty here that would disagree, but since tumble lubing came along I have never tried pan lubing again. I know you can tumble lube any boolit, but I only tumble lube TL boolits. I have several Lyman Luber Sizers.

[George Mabry]

I have tried pan lubbing also, but that was a long time ago. I will never go back. Pan lubing was, simply, to much trouble, I am sure there are plenty here that would disagree, but since tumble lubing came along I have never tried pan lubing again. I know you can tumble lube any boolit, but I only tumble lube TL boolits. I have several Lyman Luber Sizers.

right now I'm inclined to agree with you but there were a couple of steps in the process that I would do differently given another chance so I may give it another go when time permits. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

George