Loading for a Mini-14, Question

[stubert]

I just got a Mini-14 (5.56/.223) and am going to load for it. I have 2 questions, #1 can I use regular rifle primers (cci400)? They make some that are specific for AR's. Why? #2 Will 21.5 gr. of h335 work the action with a 55 gr bullet? Thanks, Stu

[Shiloh]

Beats me why they make specific primers for the AR. Are those the CCI ones in the white box??
Are you loading jacketed bullets or cast?? I no longer have a Mini, but have owned several over the years. They will digest anything.

Shiloh

[BruceB]

I'm not aware of any primers "specifically for the AR", but you may be speaking of the CCI #41 "Military" primers. These apparently nave somewhat less sensitivity than standard Small Rifle primers, just as their #34 primers serve the same purpose in the Large Rifle size.

I use the standard CCI #400 Small Rifle primers in the Mini-14 and AR15 without any trouble whatever. Thousands of them have been fired in my rifles with perfect satisfaction.

There's certainly nothing wrong with using the #41, but regular primers do work well.

The only primers I'd suggest avoiding in the Mini are Remington's #6 & 1/2. These are clearly marked as UNSUITABLE for such high-intensity smallbores as the .222, .223 etc. On the one occasion that I tried several hundred of them in .223, my Mini-14 pierced several of them.

The Remington #7 & 1/2 worked perfectly in the Mini, without piercings.

With jacketed bullets, I expect 21.5 grains of H335 might give failures to function. My 55-grain jacketed load is 25.0 H335, which gives 3100 fps at the muzzle of my 20" Armalite, and it works perfectly in both that rifle and the Mini-14. (I've never tried it with a cast bullet.)

[stubert]

Thanks, I am starting with a J bullet. i have CCI 400's I will up it if it fails to cycle. That was the start load in speer, for .223 Thanks again, Stu

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I also agree that if H335 is your powder of choice , your starting load may be a little lite to function the action. Load a few and test, the
CCI 400 should be fine...as stated the #41 SR and were introduced to help with ignition when we started importing all the junk from the Eastern block countries.....IMHO...Have fun and enjoy your reloading. Have a great day, Jim

[Cmm_3940]

21.5 of H335 w/55gr j-word is a bit on the low side, but should function in a mini. My dad loaded some with 20gr of 2460 which is even lower, but they cycled the mini-14 action. That said, it would be happier with closer to 25 gr of H335.

[John Guedry]

I use 335 in mine and small rifle magnum primers as per Lyman 37.

[Shiloh]

Start loads are there for a reference and safety. THe folks who write the books do testing and that is the minimal pressure for fuctionality. It'll work at start leverl for any bolt gun, but may not cycle with the auto. THat is were tried and true reloading practices come in. Bump till you get funtioning and accuracy. Always looking for signs of pressure and accuracy falling off.
We are however talking a Mini here. I traded and sold mine for more accurate rifles, but mini's are a lot of fun.

Shiloh

SHiloh

[shooter93]

For years some say only "mil-spec" primers (like cci white box as noted) in semi auto rifles like the AR, M1A etc. That being said Federal told me that all their primers are safe for said rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

I also suggest a "magnum" level primer with ball powders such as H335. I prefer CI 450s and WSRs both of which are made to properly ignite ball powders, especially in sub freezing temps.

My standard load in milsurp 5.56 cases with H335 under 52 - 55 gr j bullets is 26.5 gr. That is a milspec load that duplicates M193 velocity and psi. Current loading manuals hold the psi down to SAAMI .223 levels which is less than 5.56 psi's. I have shot thousands of such laods through several Mini 14s and ARs.

Larry Gibson

[CGT80]

I use 23.2 grains of h335 and a hornady 55 fmjbt/c with mixed brass and cci 450, cci 41, or wolf 223 primers. My mini 14 is the "Target Model" and is a 223 chamber, not 5.56. This load seems to be the most accurate from my limited testing when I bought the rifle.

I use the same components but 24.5 grains of h335 for my Ar15 in 5.56. The ar has an 18" barrel and runs at 2950 fps. The mini has a higher velocity with less powder, but I think the barrel may be longer on the mini.

My grandfather used winchester and federal primers with imr 4895 for his old mini 14 and seemed to have no problems.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I can`t bring to mind the exact charge of powder I used, but the powder is Accurate 2230. I loaded up 3 kegs of 8# each of this powder and a large amount of 55 gr. fmj bullets and alot of CCI srp back in the 1990`s and am still shooting them.Robert

[rhead]

For years some say only "mil-spec" primers (like cci white box as noted) in semi auto rifles like the AR, M1A etc. That being said Federal told me that all their primers are safe for said rifles.

I have always guessed that the "Mil-spec" primers were designed to withstand being crimped into the brass without damage to the priming compound or the anvil. the crimping process is the only extra action that I know of that a mil-spec primer would encounter. Then again it could be a tax issue. regular primers have always worked well in mine.

The above is a guess about what might be the difference.

[MtGun44]

Mil spec primers are for use in selfloading rifles (full or semi) with FLOATING FIRING PINS to prevent
the floating pin from slam-firing. Note that every round fed form the mag on an AR15 WILL have
a slight ding in the primer from the floating firing pin. Use a soft enough primer and you can get a
slam fire. The military understands this and makes their ammo with primers which have
thicker or harder cups in the primers to avoid slam fires.

The Mini-14 is a copy of the Garand/M14 action. I forget whether is has the full deal of the
tail on the firing pin which has to clear the bridge in the receiver to fire, preventing it
form firing until full lock up - but I presume that this important safety feature would
be included. If so (highly likely) then don't sweat the primers as far as slam firing is
concerned.

Look at a primer from a round that has been loaded under full power cycling
from shooting and see if there is a mark. If so - you want to avoid soft
primers like Fed Benchrest - know to promote slam fires in SA rifles with
floating firing pins.


Bill

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bill beat me to it but that is the reason for the #41 and #34 primers. Supposedly more of an issue with Garands (although I have never had a problem with mine slam firing with Rem 9 1/2 primers which are about as soft as primers get.) Also the firing pin on a mini 14 does work exactly like the Garands, and M14's. Most people never realize how much stuff is actually going on inside a Military firearm. Mausers have like 12 different functions most of which are safety features that prevent firing unless the gun is ready and you really want to.

My standard load for 5.56 /.223 ammo with 55 gr FMJBT recycled bullets is 25.0 gr of BLC-2/W748 it is a fine ball powder and meters very well in Dillon Powder measures. I am using CCI400 primers but also have WSR primers which are a little hotter.

Larrry's point about ignition in very cold weather is also a consideration if you are shooting in cold weather. During the summer I doubt it will matter at all, but bally powders are notorious for being hard to light in very cold weather. H110 is especially known for this and that is why they always specify Magnum Primers for that powder. Regular primers will still light it but when temps drop to around freezing ignition gets more inconsistent. Since I live in CA, and the coldest it has ever gotten is 55 degrees, I have never experienced this problem personally. But I have always used Magnum Primers with H110. I also have never seen a problem using Regular Small Rifle Primers with BLC2/W748, but if we go to war with Russia and I have to go fight in Siberia I will probably want magnum primers.

Or at least that's what I'm telling people. :roll:

Randy

I use this same load in my Mini 14, Kel-Tec SU16CA and Bushmaster Plastic AR.

[BruceB]

My rifles and I know about COLD weather, after living in the Northwest Territories for well-over thirty years.

In that time, I loaded-for and used M1As, M14s (REAL TRW M-14s) Garands, M1 Carbines, AG42B (6.5x55) Ljungmanns, FALs, AR180s, Mini-14s and AR15s.

All were used in intense cold, down into the minus-40-degree area or even colder....some in deliberate tests to see how they reacted at that low temperature. A variety of powders were used over the period.

At his late date, I do not recall ever using "Magnum" primers in any of that ammunition, and I KNOW that I never loaded any of the CCI "military" #41 or #34 primers.... they weren't available in our parts. I used CCI 400 in .223 and CCI 200 in the others.

There were no failures-to-fire, nor were there any slam-fires in the rifle types which have floating firing pins. This experience spanned many years and many thousands of handloads. I believe I'm quite safe in saying that standard CCI 200 primers will work safely in the rifles mentioned above,

This experience did NOT stop me from adopting the CCI #34 as soon as I had access to them after immigrating to the USA. There's a sufficient depth of history on the topic for me to accept the collective wisdom.... I don't need to have a slam-fire in a PERSONAL rifle, to learn that it is possible.

All my 7.62x51 and .30'06 (Garand-specific) rounds now use the #34 primer , and that M1A of mine has never fired anything else. It's now well-into the second 5000-primer case of its lifetime.

Incidentally, it seems to be an "accepted truth" in at least some military-rifle circles, that the CCI #34 is a magnum-strength primer for all practical purposes. I have no opinion on this matter, but they surely do work well for me.

[higgins]

Here's the information from CCI on the #34 and #41 primers, also stating that they are the ballistic equivalent of the magnum primers (i.e., use magnum primer load data).

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30

[shooter93]

[I] have no doubts at all that slam fires can and do happen. And if you ever witness one or it's aftermath you'll gain a respect for the occurrence. There are more reasons for them happening than just the primer though including headspace problems. Like I mentioned Federal assured me all their primers meet Mil-specs. I have no problem with using the cci except they are very scarce here and all my other loads bith rifle and handgun use Federals so I was glad to get their input.

[triggerhappy243]

Magnum primers posess a thicker cup to withstand the slam fire effect. if you recall that serviceman a year or two ago that was arressted and charged with posessing a full auto ar15? I believe that that was a result of the "SLAM FIRE" because after atf inspected the rifle, nothing was said about any parts conversion done to the rifle. the scenerio will scare the **** out of you if it does an unexpected mag dump on you. when in doubt, use the mag primer in that semi-auto.

On a second note, I use H335 in my AR-15. it has a wylde chambering, not the 223 like the mini-14. or the mil-spec 5.56. dont confuse the data between the 3. look for data catered for the mini-14 in 223.

[CGT80]

On a second note, I use H335 in my AR-15. it has a wylde chambering, not the 223 like the mini-14. or the mil-spec 5.56. dont confuse the data between the 3. look for data catered for the mini-14 in 223.

I have read a bit about chambers on the mini 14. I think I even saw data directly from ruger. All mini 14's, except the Target Model, are supposed to be 5.56 chambers and safe for 5.56. I have the oddball, the target version. Maybe someone else can verify or disprove what I have read.

Do most books have load data for the three different chambers? I have always seen 223 remington listed. I load on the lighter side as I use mixed brass and am only hitting paper and steel. I have the mini in 223 and an AR in 5.56. My mini reaches higher velocity with less powder than the AR 15, using the same components. The AR is an 18" barrel.

I haven't had a slam fire in the mini or M1 Carbine, or any other gun for that matter, but I did hear my AR-15 do a couple double taps when I let someone else shoot it from the bench. I couldn't get it to happen. It has an S3G trigger that is probably 3 pounds and very little travel, so I think the trigger struck their finger when it recoiled. I checked the gun out real well after that. It was fine, and it hasn't happened again.

[triggerhappy243]

my books (speer #14 and sierra) show data for 223 remington and 5.56 milspec but I have not seen data specifically for the wylde chamber. like new loading for any ammo, one needs to start loads on the light side and work up. semi-autos are picky in that bullet velocity will vary greatly with different chamber dimentions, and barrel length. I own 2 AR'S and the same reloads I make fired in each rifle differ in velocity by 250 fps. one is a wylde chamber and the other is a milspec 5.56.

[Cmm_3940]

.223 Wylde will fire milspec NATO 5.56x45 ammunition without issue.

"Wylde is a hybrid chamber designed to yield the accuracy advantages of the match .223 Remington commercial chambering but without the pressure problems when using NATO spec ammunition."

http://www.jprifles.com/instructions/Rifle/JPCG-223.pdf


"The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO ammunition. It is relieved in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy."

http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=274

[Hard_Cast]

WSR primers let my Colt 6920 go full auto on me. 23 rounds into a 30 round mag, I was able to hit the mag release. She wasn't coming up for air....

I now only use CCI mil-spec for all my semi-autos, though it crossed my mind to load two, then a M855....

[uscra112]

The Mini-14 does have the little "tail" in the firing pin, which hits on the frame until the bolt has rotated into battery. I've never seen a pin mark on ammo cycled but not fired, unlike my SKS, which puts a pretty obvious dent in the primer every time.

[pls1911]

If you go with cast be certain your alloy is either linotype of heat treated at least as hard as lino.

[Chuck Walla]

I've been reading alot of old posts and I've noticed that questions come up every once in awhile about casting for .223. Am I the only one that thinks casting for .223 is pretty much a waste of time? I tried monkeying around with it briefly for my Mini 14 and quickly came to my senses. You can't push them much over 2000 fps and retain any type of accuracy, and the cost of gas checks is ridiculous. I've been looking into dies for swaging bullets from .22 cases and that seems to be more worth the effort if you're going to make you're own for .223.
If you go with cast be certain your alloy is either linotype of heat treated at least as hard as lino.

[Cmm_3940]

It all depends on what you consider a waste of time.

2000 fps is about as fast as you can push them in a fast twist 1-8, 1-9 bbl such as the AR platform. The mini-14 I've messed with has a 1-12 twist, which allows you to push them faster. I never bothered finding out how much faster, since I wanted rounds I could use in my AR.

Gas checks are much cheaper if you buy them from a vendor here. Cheaper yet if you make your own.