HELP!!! Bullet sticking in gun

[shanep]

Problem solved

[Alan in Vermont]

I have no idea wht cfe223 is like but I would say that either it's too slow for you load or the charge is too light. Either way you're getting low pressure as indicated by leakage around the case and failures to cycle.

[emorris]

You didnt have enough chamber pressure for the case to make a seal with the chamber. Cfe223 powder is ment for full power jacketed loads. Where did you get your load date from?

[shanep]

You can't find cast bullet loads for cfe223,it does work great for jacketed bullets. So should I add a couple of grains. Somebody somewhere has to figure it out since there is no cast data, shot fair for not a good load. I figured it was to light is why it did it, first time that's happened.

[emorris]

Hodgdon lists 26 grains for a starting charge for fmj, so how did you come up with starting at 9 grains? You dont want to start pulling load data out of thin air. Lets start here, what type of gun, the barrel's twist rate, and what alloy are you using?

[hydraulic]

You said the bullets were sticking in the gun. Did you mean they stuck in the barrel?

[shanep]

No the cases not stuck just not ejecting

[shanep]

I will get you the twist rate when i get hm

[emorris]

I'm guessing you have an autoloader of some sort?

[Bullshop Junior]

You mean the cases are not ejecting...the bullets are hitting the target?

[Jupiter7]

I'd start at a 10% reduction of jacketed and work down til the gun stops cycling and then work back up for accuracy and cycling. Simple answer to your query, you didn't have enough powder. You may be able to look at the burn chart for a little help to see where cfe223 relates to known performers(h4895 for example) in reduced loads.

[Blammer]

If you can't find any load data for your powder and cartridge combo I would highly suggest.

1. Write Hodgdon and ask and see what they say
2. STOP guessing and find another powder

too little of a powder charge CAN be as bad as too much.

I personally will recommend you stop what you are doing as you could hurt yourself or someone close by if things go wrong.

some powders just don't play well when reduced.

H110 for example.

[Bullshop Junior]

If you can't find any load data for your powder and cartridge combo I would highly suggest.

1. Write Hodgdon and ask and see what they say
2. STOP guessing and find another powder

too little of a powder charge CAN be as bad as too much.

I personally will recommend you stop what you are doing as you could hurt yourself or someone close by if things go wrong.

some powders just don't play well when reduced.

H110 for example.

Blanket had a good point

[osteodoc08]

Shane, no offense, but stop immediately. It does not seem like you have a good grasp of proper reloading techniques, much less how to communicate the issues your having. Your initial description to what I think is occurring are completely different.

Do you have someone close by to show you the ropes?

[shanep]

It is a 1:9 twist an I based my load off of max loads of a comparable powders burn rate don't remember which one right now wrote it down somewhere. It may not be good for cast but in my ar it's better than factory ammo by a lot an consistent. Thanks for helping

[shanep]

Yes they are hitting

[shanep]

Thanks but I understand what everyone is saying I'm very safe I based the load off of a comparable powder (guess I'm gonna dig out my notes so I'm not such an idiot) burn rate. 10. Grains was max load on it on that powder.

[MtGun44]

This powder is NOT appropriate for such SUPER low loads. It does not burn well
at this level. You are far better off using a medium or faster speed powders like 2400 or
Unique for this level of power.

Rifle powders need to be run at high enough pressures to burn "as intended" - you
are WAY off this zone and the powder will probably burn with very low pressure and
lots of unburned powder and crud. This is your soot and there is probably actually
unburned powder particles being forced between the case (unexpanded and not sealing
due to too low pressure) and the chamber.

Bill

[rsrocket1]

Shanep, you are way off on your burn chart. CFE223 is comparable to BLC2, W748, Varget. These powders are very slow compared to the shotgun/pistol powders used in reduced load shooting. The standard load of CFE223 with a 55g jacketed bullet is 24.7 to 27.4g. You were lucky that 10 grains went off at all. If you are trying to shoot a "cast bullet" type of load, you should be using somewhere between 6 and 8 grains of a shotgun/pistol powder like Unique or Red Dot. These reduced loads will not cycle the action and eject the brass. They are meant for bolt action guns and not AR type guns. You CAN shoot them in AR's, but you will have to hand cycle them.

Low charges with slow powders may result in stuck bullets or worse yet, "secondary explosions" where the primer drives the bullet into the rifling, then when the powder goes off, the pressure skyrockets resulting in a ruptured case, blown out magazine and possible injuries to the shooter.

[dverna]

There are threads on people who have shot cast in AR's and been able to cycle the action. Do some research.

In fact, do a lot of research. As others have stated, you cannot just reduce any powder charge and expect it to be safe.

If you find a load on the internet that is not close to a published load - DO NOT USE IT!!

Don Verna

[shanep]

Problem solved

[220swiftfn]

Shane, as others have said CFE223 is a RIFLE powder. In other words, in relative burn rate AS YOU SEEM TO BE TRYING TO USE IT, (like a pistol powder), the burn rate is slower than my grandma (and she died years ago.) You follow this up with the statement that this load worked fine with jacketed, but once again, you are WELL below any listed data for this powder in that round.

Be careful, buy a reloading manual......


Dan

[Cmm_3940]

Shane, you should really pay close attention to the fact that so many very, very experienced reloaders on this forum have gone into panic mode over what you have posted. What you say you are doing is dangerous. There is a very real likelihood of you destroying your expensive gun and severely injuring yourself and others.

Buy a reloading book.
Visit the powder manufacturers' Web sites to learn what it is safe do do with their products.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle?&CartridgeName=223+Remington&OrderBW%5B%5D=55&Manufacturer%5B%5D=Hodgdon&Powder%5B%5D=CFE+223

If you are unable or unwilling to do these things, I highly recommend you buy your ammo and stick to fishing.

[btroj]

So you loaded based on a burn rare chart? Decided a reduced load was just fine?

How long have you been reloading and do you own any manuals?

[Animal]

Shanep, I'm a bit new to reloading/casting myself. If you don't have anyone experienced near by that will be happy to sit with you at the bench and pour out there knowledge, then I say that you and I have a lot in common. Get at least 2 reloading manuals and at least one Boolit casting manual. Learn as much as you can from this forum and these kind fellas (who are a bit irritated with your decisions at the moment but more than happy to help) on this thread.

I've gotten my tail chewed out for a dumb decision I made on this site, but that is necessary for growth. This stuff isn't rocket science but the risk involved will by far outweigh the reward. There is no sense in dying over chasing the 'perfect load'.

Your initial post does lead people to believe that you are sticking boolits in the barrel, yet you are also saying that all the boolits are hitting target. Try to carefully write your post in good detail. Don't expect anyone to be able to help you if you are trying to work up a load that isn't based on any reputable data. Lots of good men make a living by experimenting with powder/projectile combinations for companies that publish data. Let them do their job.

If I'm not mistaking, the CFE powders are specifically designed for jacketed or plated bullets. The purpose is to reduce copper fouling. I may be wrong, but that is what I recall the moment. If that is the case, it seems counter-productive to use it for cast.

Best of luck to ya

[dragon813gt]

Well I ran Quickload for that charge and used a RCBS 55 grain cast bullet since the OP did not state what bullet he used. Barely over 1k psi at the muzzle, chamber pressure of 3100 psi and just under 1k fps. 27.8% of the propellant burnt.

The OP really needs to learn proper reloading techniques. How you got from the starting jacketed charge to 9 grains w/out a work down is a recipe for disaster. You're luck you didn't stick a bullet, and follow it up w/ another shot.

[Animal]

Well I ran Quickload for that charge and used a RCBS 55 grain cast bullet since the OP did not state what bullet he used. Barely over 1k psi at the muzzle, chamber pressure of 3100 psi and just under 1k fps. 27.8% of the propellant burnt.

The OP really needs to learn proper reloading techniques. How you got from the starting jacketed charge to 9 grains w/out a work down is a recipe for disaster. You're luck you didn't stick a bullet, and follow it up w/ another shot.

Wow, that doesn't look like it shows any real potential. That'll stick a boolit in a snub-nosed .38 spl.

[John Boy]

Why? Any ideas on what to look for.
Shane, your reload is so far under charged with the CFE223 it is pathetic! Indicative that you never went the Hodgdon's online loading data for the caliber-powder and bullet weight
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
It's posts like this that scare me that some folks have a rifle and don't take the time to determine the Minimum-Maximum load data!

Your lucky you didn't blow up the barrel with a squib

[osteodoc08]

Shanep, I'm a bit new to reloading/casting myself. If you don't have anyone experienced near by that will be happy to sit with you at the bench and pour out there knowledge, then I say that you and I have a lot in common. Get at least 2 reloading manuals and at least one Boolit casting manual. Learn as much as you can from this forum and these kind fellas (who are a bit irritated with your decisions at the moment but more than happy to help) on this thread.

I've gotten my tail chewed out for a dumb decision I made on this site, but that is necessary for growth. This stuff isn't rocket science but the risk involved will by far outweigh the reward. There is no sense in dying over chasing the 'perfect load'.

Your initial post does lead people to believe that you are sticking boolits in the barrel, yet you are also saying that all the boolits are hitting target. Try to carefully write your post in good detail. Don't expect anyone to be able to help you if you are trying to work up a load that isn't based on any reputable data. Lots of good men make a living by experimenting with powder/projectile combinations for companies that publish data. Let them do their job.

If I'm not mistaking, the CFE powders are specifically designed for jacketed or plated bullets. The purpose is to reduce copper fouling. I may be wrong, but that is what I recall the moment. If that is the case, it seems counter-productive to use it for cast.

Best of luck to ya

Animal, it's good to see your making some growth as well. I know you've learned a few things and are better for it. Speaking of which, I might have to make a trip close to Valhalla (ha ha). PM sent.

To the OP, please heed our advice. We only are concerned about you or someone around you. Reloading can be fun and rewarding, but it's not something to venture into willy nilly.

[triggerhappy243]

besides what rsrocket1 saying...... all the fouling not going around the case is going thru the gas port and gas tube. you plug up that gas port in the barrel, you are in for a frikkin surprise when you start shooting jacketed bullets. the lead builds up in the gas port too.... plugging it as well.

[btroj]

There won't be a lead buildup in the gas port. Many here shoot cast in AR type rifles with no problems at all.

[Blanket]

would suggest as the others to get some good loading manuals, or an air rifle. Lots safer

[shanep]

Problem solved

[lka]

I'm getting PC .224 casts cycling my ar. My ar is piston driven and adjustable though.

[bangerjim]

I own nine manuels

But do you own a brain? BTW................"manuals"

No insult meant by any means, but there are a LOT of experienced people on here that have told you to PLEASE STOP what you are doing. I personally respect all of them!

I would certainly listen to what they are saying.......while you eyes left to read their pleas and comments.

banger

[shanep]

Problem solved

[shanep]

I am mature enough to know experience out weighs anything, I am taking your advice I'm not going to try it again an thanks to most for there good advice.

[DRNurse1]

Learning curve here is to start from a known or verifiable point and move up or down until a failure to function under test conditions occurs or pressure signs indicate it is time to stop.

Lots of information in the stickies regarding this so failure to read the directions or follow reasonable safety processes is....dangerous.

[osteodoc08]

Problem solved

Inquiring minds want to know,.......how was it solved?

If by saying it's solved and the problem isn't TRULY solved, then that leaves you without sage advice to help actually fix it. If you did indeed, fix it, then I will still accept you as young brother here with open arms.

We want you to enjoy the sport and be safe. Not be a statistic.

[Animal]

Agreed. A little closure on this would be nice.

[bangerjim]

This interesting (!!) thread has been mentioned in some others on here as an example. Hopefully those new to this addiction of ours will take heed and stay within the guidelines of established published loading data.

We hope his "resolution" was just not going to ground and going silent. Feedback would be greatly welcomed by all who voiced concerned.



banger

[shanep]

The problem fixed is I'm not going to hurt myself without proper load data on cast bullet for this powder. The reason the case didn't eject is lyman cast load data says in its .223 section not for cast bullets because it's not enough powder according to there book. Problem solved.

[osteodoc08]

The problem fixed is I'm not going to hurt myself without proper load data on cast bullet for this powder. The reason the case didn't eject is lyman cast load data says in its .223 section not for cast bullets because it's not enough powder according to there book. Problem solved.

Really? Give it time.

The rather aloof, blasé attitude shown is exactly what will get you hurt. Please don't ever shoot near me.

I still strongly suggest you just stop and find a mentor before you hurt yourself or someone else.

[dragon813gt]

I'm trying to figure out what a Lyman manual has to do w/ Hodgdon's powder? There is nothing wrong w/ working a load down. But you start at a known value and work your way down incrementally. I would also contact the manufacturer to find out if a powder is suited for downloading. H110/W296 is not the only one that you shouldn't do it w/.

I have to be honest. It's threads like this that make me not like taking my stepdaughter to the range. You want to hurt yourself, have at it. You hurt me, well that's not going to end to well. You hurt her, I'm not one to make idle threats. I'm younger and when you came across someone who reloaded it used to be great. Lately it makes me really cautious because I don't trust the newbies.

[shanep]

Lol yea yea

[shanep]

Thanks to all that tried to help with talking about the fact but for the idiots get a life.

[dragon813gt]

So we're the idiots?

[triggerhappy243]

guys.... I think it is time to stop with this one. we all know that years of proven experience and dedication to "SAFETY FIRST" tells us where to draw the line.

This forum was not put up to become a pissing contest. I, FOR ONE, do not shoot with anyone who I personally know, is not at least as safe a shooter as I am. And if they display acts of stupidity and unsafe behavure when with me, I never have them with me ever again.

[stubert]

You can lead a horse to water............................

[dondiego]

I think that he has learned a valuable lesson here and will most likely be a safer reloader from now on.

[stubert]

We're trying o help him and He calls us idiots? Please tell us where you shoot, so We can avoid you.

[triggerhappy243]

we tried to help...We all tried. YOU COMMENTED, " you can lead a horse to water..."the OP will take the info and do whatever he wants to with it..... he is calling you idiots, not me. all I am saying is dont sink down to that level. JUST LET IT GO!!!!!! stubert...... grow up, I am not the bad guy here. I didn't call anyone here an idiot. And I take firearm and reloading safety DEAD SERIOUS.

[stubert]

My last post was not directed at you, triggerhappy243, It was for the OP. Sorry for the confusion.

[triggerhappy243]

No problem... this is the reason why I suggested we all drop it. the aggravation is just not worth it. have a good day.

[bangerjim]

"...............can't we all just get along........?" (famous statement of the past)

"****e seeks it's own level"................(another famous statement from the past!)

Carry on....

banger

[KYCaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps

[TXGunNut]

I think we've beat up shane enough, either he's learned from his mistake or he won't.
For the sake of other newbies and lurkers it may help to know that in over 30 years of loading I can count the number of times I've used an unpublished load on the fingers of one hand, and thanks to that practice I still have the original number of digits on each hand. This is serious stuff dealing with tens of thousands of pounds of pressure and hundreds of ft/lbs of energy. A cavalier attitude will result in an ER visit or worse, if not for you then possibly some innocent bystander.

[Animal]

TXGunNut. Question, and totally irrelevant to the discussion... How does one get the status of "Fuzzy Boolit"?

[shanep]

Ive learned amen cast iis new to me but am goin by the book broke down every bullet an am going to learn more before i load any cast