Japchester 1892 45 Colt loads

[bigted]

got my engraved winchester 45 colt with the 24 inch round barrel, been runnin some loads thru it but have not gotten any loads that I would consider "hunting" loads to be used on deer or antelope.

question is this ... what hotter loads do you all use in this pristine lever rifle? or should I just be happy with the anemic revolver loads in it? I am very happy with this rifle and am totally willing to run the lesser loads thru it ... however ... I also would be jazzed to be able to pack it in the woods for deer and be confident that I would not be under gunned.

the unique is a very clean burner in my rifle and I have loaded in small increments up to 11 grains behind a 266 grain cast boolit ... these with no signs of any over pressure showing on the case nor primer. I have several loading books but all I find with cast boolits are pretty low velocity ... however I do have the hornaday book that lists some hotter loads for the Blackhawk and contender pistols but they all list jacketed bullets ... so another question is ... can I use this data for my cast boolits of equal weight? if not ... why not?

I have accurate molds 454260 and a lee 300 mini in .454 as well as a Lyman mold that I do not remember the number for a 250 grain boolit. these are the boolits I have access to for starters.

I am interested in what others do for hunting loads in the winchester {miroku} for the 45 colt?

thanks.

Ted

[jonp]

Linebaugh has a good write up on the 45colt using stout loads and some numbers with it in "Exploding the myth".
its interesting but approach these numbers with caution. I stopped short of his max loads as the flash/recoil got unpleasent

[knifemaker]

Your Win. 92 will handle the "Ruger only" loads given in some loading manuels. You can expect about 400 -450 fps more velocity over what is given for a pistol with a 6-7 inch barrel. You will also notice some good recoil on your shoulder.

[Nrut]

Ponder this Ted,
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

You have a 45-70 short mag Ted.

But before you start with heavy loads be aware that the mag. tube on your rifle isn't all that well secured to the receiver or barrel..
If you fill the mag. tube with loaded rounds and shoot heavy bullets with a snoot full of 296/H110, 2400, or Lil'Gun you will in time (very little time) pound your mag. tube into a unusable mess assuming it stays attached to the rifle..
The heavily loaded mag. tube wants to stay in one place while the rest of the rifle wants to move back due to recoil..

Then the trouble begins...
The receiver end of the mag. tube get pounded badly using heavy hot loads..

Why??
The mag. tube is not threaded into the receiver..
It just fits into a recess..
Now check over your other mag. tube attachments to the barrel and you will find there is a screw at the muzzle end..
There is another screw that holds the forearm tip on that fits between the mag. tube and barrel through a little groove in both..
IIRC there is a little pin that fits between the mag. tube and barrel also..(someplace)
Been 7-8 years since I played with mine and it is still in good shape because a friend of mine tore his up badly using 320gr. LFN and a heavy dose of one of the above powders..
He tried fixing it to no avail until he finally made a clamp that act's like a barrel band to prevent movement in the opposite direction between the barrel and mag. tube under recoil..
You might what to consider the same if you use heavy loads..
We also pondered on silver soldering or epoxying the mag. tube to the receiver but did't try it..
I will probably try epoxy but wonder how it will hold up to expansion and contraction issues..
I bought a Browning Low Wall soon after and put the neat little 92 away for another day..
BTW mine was quite accurate with a 300gr. WFN at least out to 100 m. or so..
Don't recall what the groups were but remember a slightly smaller than cantaloupe sized rock at 100m didn't stand a chance shooting off a P-U hood..

[robertbank]

My advice is to consider getting a recoil pad for the gun. My 92 in 44Mag was absolutely brutal on the shoulder with mid range 44 Mag loads. I don't want to even think what it would have been like had I pushed the limit.

Take Care

Bob

[bigted]

so I am guessing that my 45 colt should stay as a revolver/rifle combo and maintain my 45-70 for hunting then ... sure hate to tear up a perfect rifle in any way.

[robertbank]

I would think 8.5 gr of Unique under a 250 - 260 gr bullet will knock down anything you likely will encounter out to 100 yards. If you need more you are up against a large Brown Bear and under gunned at anything outside of pistol range. Walk don'r run for a bigger boomstick. The 45Colt is no 45-70.

Take Care

Bob

[Nrut]

Ted,
The previous owner of my rifle was shooting a 250gr. bullet over H4227 for about 1450fps and my rifle didn't show any buggering to the mag tube at the receiver interface..
Plus you don't have to load up the mag. tube with a bunch of heavy bullet loads for hunting..
The guy mentioned in post #4 above repaired his .45/92 gave it to his wife for a hunting rifle..
My feeling 1500 fps is the max that I would want to go for hunting using a soft bullet (9-10bhn) just to keep up your penetration anyway..

[williamwaco]

Nobody likes my ideas.
I am just to conservative to be any fun.

This is what I recommend.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=024C&mid=534175

[bigted]

yes I agree with the premis that 8.5 grains unique under the 255/260 grain boolit should do for a small blacktail anytime and I WILL be hunting in timber.

elk or larger should be attempted with my marlin 45-70 and here I agree with williamwaco except that my marlin will suffice as a good hunting rifle for bear/big game.

the Blackhawk/contender loads should be ok in this rifle as an every once inna while thing but I agree that the 8.5 unique are mild enough for revolver [vaquero] or rifle [92].

this rifle is hungry all the time and crying for attention even as I type ... I hear it moaning that just setting is against its nature.

ho hum ... so many gunz to play with and so little time in a day. whatever should a feller do?

[jonp]

I ran 9gr of unique in my rossi for target under a 255gr boolit and wish i had a recoil pad. No qualms using that for whitetail/ black bear within 100yrds or so

[robertbank]

I ran 9gr of unique in my rossi for target under a 255gr boolit and wish i had a recoil pad. No qualms using that for whitetail/ black bear within 100yrds or so
Seems to be the curved back on the buttstock. I tried holding my Rossi in different ways and only changed the spot where I bruised myself. LOL. Took a friends advice and put a recoil pad on the gun and problem solved.

Bob

[bigted]

Linebaugh has a good write up on the 45colt using stout loads and some numbers with it in "Exploding the myth".
its interesting but approach these numbers with caution. I stopped short of his max loads as the flash/recoil got unpleasent

found that article and it was interesting to say the least. all his data was gathered with revolver guns and not rifles so I would guess that my loads are going to do just fine in my winchester rifle. thanks for the reference.

as to the recoil ... I have an advantage in that I am tall and have these ape like arms so ... I always put on a laceup leather buttpad so I get the length of pull I require for not gouging myself with my thumb or fingers that wrap around the wrist of the stock. besides they look kinda like they belong there as I leave the leather lace hang after tying the knot in it. they add around 1 inch to the buttstock and in this case ... I put a carved wad of very dense foam in the crook of the crescent so the leather pad stays straight and I get the added length I need.

[osteodoc08]

That gun can handle Ruger only loads, but lots of shooting, you'll know it on the shoulder. Just for reference:

RCBS 45-270-SAA clone with 13.5gr HS-6 gets me 1360fps out of a Marlin 1894 CB

HDY 255gr "cowboy" boolit with IIRC 6gr of Trail Boss gets me 830fps out of a Marlin 1894 CB

HDY 250gr XTP with near max dose of 296 gets me 1700 fps out of a Marlin 1894S Carbine and 1280 out of a 5.5" Ruger Bisley

360gr LFNGC with 20.3gr 296 gets me 1400 fps out of a Marlin 1894S Carbine and 1130fps out of a 5.5" Ruger Bisley

300gr Sierra with 22.1gr 296 gets me 1425 fps out of a Marlin 1894S Carbine

MP 454-297 mold at 305gr WFNGC with Penta point loaded infront of 22.1gr 296 gets me 1150fps out of a 5.5" Ruger Bisley

I hope that gives you some insight to loadings and velocities expected.

My loads not your loads safe in my guns applies here, yada yada yada.

[DougGuy]

bigted, that rifle you have is MORE than adequate for ANY critter on the North American continent! My own pet loads I use in my Rugers will work great in your levergun, and will definitely knock down anything that walks, chances are you could shoot through a 16" standing pine, and STILL kill whatever is on the other side of it!

For short range closeup work, let's say 75yds or less, the Lee C452-300-RF is a very tough boolit to beat. It may not stabilize well enough to go 100+yds, but it's wide meplat cuts a nice entrance, a golfball sized wound channel, and a nice clean exit, and you will likely not recover any of these in the game, you'd have full penetration, in-and-out on any hoofed game you take with it.

Lee 300gr RF GC seated long in the bottom crimp groove, over any of the following powders: 18.0gr H2400, 20.5gr LilGun, 22.5gr H110/W296

This is just one boolit. A very good boolit at that, but there are many sets of load data for .45 Colt in the Ruger Only pressures that are safe in your '92.

[bigted]

bigted, that rifle you have is MORE than adequate for ANY critter on the North American continent! My own pet loads I use in my Rugers will work great in your levergun, and will definitely knock down anything that walks, chances are you could shoot through a 16" standing pine, and STILL kill whatever is on the other side of it!

so I guess I am a bit surprised that you feel thusely about the 45 colt. I do know this about the 45-70 but never transferred this train of thought to the 45 colt cartridge. I have seen personally moose run off with 2 375 H&H 300 grain factory slugs thru the heart/lungs area and run as if nothing has happened. I have heard of the big bears to have carried 2 and 3 full power house loads of 416 hits and keep the charge up till getting to within 3 or 4 feet of the shooter. so I guess I have never put the 45 colt into this category of killing power. I also ran 4 270 winchester 140 grain loads thru an elk head and the only reason it stopped was because of the stump it stumbled over and could not regain its feet.

it is nice to read about somebody having such confidence in the 45 colt cartridge.

I do agree with the premise tho that this dandy winchester of modern make will withstand the "ruger only" loads. I would not want to run these thru it all the time but ... they should give what im looking for on the small blacktail deer herds in the timber where I will be hunting. with maybe a blackbear thrown in the mix from time to time.

[TXGunNut]

Good thread, thanks for starting it. Here in TX and most of the lower 48 a moderate 45 Colt load well deployed will do the deed for up close shooting. Yes, I think your 92 can duplicate BP 45-70 loads but I don't think it's a good idea.
Looking forward to seeing what works for you, I'm thinking any accurate load that gets you 1300-1400 fps from an appropriate 250 class boolit will do all you should expect from this rifle.
Rumor has it I have a minty 94 Trapper in 45 Colt hiding around here somewhere, you may have inspired a future project. :-)

[frank505]

I shoot the RCBS 300 grain gas check semi wadcutter in mine. 20.5. grains of WC 820, Rem 2 1/2, starline cases. This load runs 1550, and I have shot this load for twenty years. Have not experienced any issues with the rifle. It is my favorite carry rifle for snowshoeing and hiking.

[bigted]

so drug out my chrony ...[RCBS]... today to run some loads to see in reality what they would run in my 24 inch round barreled 45 colt. I was both surprised and disappointed in some as follows. the weather couldn't have been any better either ... not a cloud in the sky and the sun behind me the whole time. the chrony setup at 10 feet for the first screen from the muzzle of my rifle. very pleasant 28.5 degree F. no wind.

all shooting today was done with the accurate mold 452260 mold that throws a 266 grain boolit with a nice big lube groove in it and a crimp groove ... flat base with a meplate of around .300 inch.

unique powder yield these velocity's.

8.5 grains = 1150 fps
9.5 grains = 1225 fps
10.5 grains = 1300 fps
11 grains = 1360 fps
11.5 grains = 1385 fps.

next I shot 2400 powder and these are the real world yields
19.5 grains = 1525 fps
20 grains = 1545 fps
20.5 grains = 1590 fps

lastly I shot some IMR 4227 powder and these are the yields
21 grains = 1320 fps
22 grains = 1390 fps
23 grains = 1450 fps

so for the things I desire ... it looks like the 2400 powder is going to be my choice. the unique burns the cleanest with the 2400 being close on its heels and the 4227 being the dirtiest powder tried today.

all in all I really like the velocity and felt recoil of the 2400 powder loads with the 20.5 grain loads doing the best in power and trajectory. will try it for accuracy another day but today I learned what I set out to learn. the loads came from my Hornaday book in the Ruger/Contender pistol section. all safe loads and I find other loads that go hotter in an older Lyman book for the same pistols.

this rifle is so pleasant to shoot ... I have to pinch myself from time to time. it is so smooth and settles into my shoulder so nicely ... lite enough to pack for distance as well as in the thick stuff. what a treat ... I am used to carrying my other rifles that weigh from 8.5 pounds to a couple that tip the scales at over 13 pounds. this is a nice surprise and a great treat for me. I cant wait to hunt with it and settle down round the campfire for a bonding experience with it. such a rifle ... my goodness ... gushing like a school girl ... n I don't care !!! :roll:

[Nrut]

You'er sick!










LOL

[osteodoc08]

Nice velocity using the 2400. I've got 1-1/2# of it on the shelf and may need to see how she runs with that.

[bigted]

[You'er sick!]

yep ... I know it !!! :drinks:

[gon2shoot]

Apply the "Taylor" formula to those results and you will be surprised just how potent the 45 is. I mostly hunt in brushy country now with 100yds being about as far as I can see any direction.
Using a 255gr boolit in the 1400fps. range the gun will make good kills on anything I make a decent shot on.

[jonp]

Pleasant to shoot with 20gr of 2400? You should get a 460 Weatherby Mag and be done with it.

Exploding the Myth is actually Dissolving The Myth. I have it saved on my comp and got the name wrong. You might want to try some H110/W296 if you have it before settling in on 2400. Higher velocity without the sharp snap of recoil more of a push but that was my experience only. I am a big fan of H110 in all high velocity/power loads in Mags and it works well in the 45Colt also.

[bigted]

Pleasant to shoot with 20gr of 2400? You should get a 460 Weatherby Mag and be done with it.


I do shoot way more powerful rifles then this ... namely a 375 H&H and I also have a 458 win mag. but I download these for something a little more manageable.

remember that I have the 24 inch RIFLE ... not a short barreled 20 inch carbine nor the 16 inch trapper. I also have the leather lace up pad on the hind quarter for the length of pull over that snazzy crescent plate.

this rifle is very fun to shoot with these hot sounding loads but I will try the H110/W296 powder when I can locate some. the local folks are still fraid of the current gubberment and so are hoarding everything they can get their hands on ... know that everything up here is shipped in an extra fashion according to the procedure down there in America.

at any rate I do like the 2400 powder and till I find something else for a hunting load ... I will stick with the 20.5 grain load behind the 266 grain accurate boolit. seems like this would be a spiffy close range load in this dandy rifle.

the IMR4227 powder comes close to the same velocity and push of recoil ... I have not maxed out with it yet so I have some more experimentation to do with it so maybe the 4227 is a go to powder as well. the 1600 FPS is my goal with this rifle/load combo for hunting. I like the unique load of 8.5 grains for general plinking in the rifle as well as my Vaquero. nice pair of weapons to pack and play with.

where do I find the TAYLOR formula? I will do a search after I get this posted but help may need to be given this internet deficient hunt n peck computer genius.

edit ... found the Taylor formula ... my expectations outdo the 44 mag in the final equation. my little 45 colt with a 266 grain boolit going 1700 fps carry's a 29 in KO figure. this comes in over my old 270 loads by a bunch and hovers just below the 45-70 with a 350 grain boolit. not bad according to this formula.

[bigted]

went out to upgrade my data with the IMR 4227. my loads in my rifle ran 1350 FPS for the 301 grain LEE hollow base with 20.5 grains ... top end for the 300 grain boolits in 45 colt as I read it ... of the IMR 4227. which give a 26 on the Taylors formula ... 6 grade points higher then the 44 mag.

I also ran some fun loads with GOEX cartridge powder ... 40 grains powder ... 266 grain boolit lubed with SPG ... a federal match large pistol primer. this load runs 1100 FPS thru my rifle and gives a 21 grade on the Taylors formula which is still above the 44 mag numbers.

so yes I am surprised at the numbers in comparison with the normally accepted handgun hunting load with the 44 mag and 240 grain boolits. this will fill the bill better then I ever expected. even with the blackpowder loads ...[which by the way if you haven't tried them you should ... man they be fun!]... they develop the KO numbers that Taylors formula compares favorably with the 44 mag hunting loads.

the BP loads are fun and for cleanup allow me to state the why I have so much fun with them ... to clean the rifle I go at it as such ...

1- i PULL thru the bore a double patch with my string cleaner soaked with Ballistol/water mix in a 10 part water to 1 part ballistol mix.
2- I then PULL it thru the second time folded with the dirty side inside the patch.
3- then look down the bore as the barrel is startlingly clean with almost all the fouling gone.
4- now I use my rod and PUSH a ballistol soaked single patch down and back 10 times.
5- turning it over on the tip of my rod I run it down and back out another 10 times.
6- now I run a dry patch down and up 5 times to dry the bore.
7- now I oil a patch and run it in and out 5 times ... I take this oily patch and rub down the rest of the rifle.

all in all it takes 4 patch's ... just 2 more then the smokeless loads require for cleaning and sometimes I need the 4 patch's for a complete and proper cleaning with the smokeless loads so it be a push in some cases ... no more elbo grease and the smell of BP and ballistol just makes me smile ... instead of the foul odor of the ammonia cleaners needed to dissolve the smokeless powder fouling.

that's it. except for the first string PULLs this is JUST as easy to clean as any smokeless loads I ever clean up after. not taking any more cleaning supply's and NOT taking any ammonia stinking scrubbers to the barrel.

well that's my storie ... im not gonna waver nor stutter ... and ... im gonna wait to see what others do with their Winchester model '92' rifles in 45 colt chamber.

thanks for the help and I look forward to hearing about more loads and experiences with this little dandy. maybe a hunting experience or two with them.

[DougGuy]

my expectations outdo the 44 mag in the final equation. my little 45 colt with a 266 grain boolit going 1700 fps carry's a 29 in KO figure. this comes in over my old 270 loads by a bunch and hovers just below the 45-70 with a 350 grain boolit. not bad according to this formula.

Now you get my reasoning for so much praise for the .45 Colt. It's not a 45-70 never was intended to be, but with the Lee C452-300-RF boolit over modern powders, it handily steps over a .44 Magnum and gets right up under the momentum and power of the old gatling gun cartridge. The Lee boolit runs right at 320gr lubed and checked here.

[osteodoc08]

Now you get my reasoning for so much praise for the .45 Colt. It's not a 45-70 never was intended to be, but with the Lee C452-300-RF boolit over modern powders, it handily steps over a .44 Magnum and gets right up under the momentum and power of the old gatling gun cartridge. The Lee boolit runs right at 320gr lubed and checked here.

And my exact reasoning for not owning a 44.

I've got a 41mag and a 45 colt. If top end loads aren't enough, I need a rifle. Then I play with my 45/70.

If I need more than my 45/70 slinging major lead at 1700 FPS, I shoulda stayed at home!

I've got a few rifles to handle longer range stuff, but under 100-150, my 45/70 definitely gets the nod.

***BigTed***
I'm not sure why you need ammonia based cleaners unless shooting jacketed. Powder, lube, soot should clean up fine with Hoppes #9 or other general cleaner. I only use ammonia to cut copper, mostly in my 22-250. Even now, they have ammonia free copper cleaners that work fair.

[bigted]

I use the "Butch's bore shine" and it smells like pure ammonia to me but ... having come from a home where my dad would inspect all weapons after putting them away ... er just before they were put away ... I can say that if there were ever any black on any patch ... my involvement with the guns was curtailed till I learned to "clean em proper". its the why of why I like black powder ... it is easy to return the weapon to pristine condition ... not so much with smokeless powder.

is Hoppes #9 not an ammonia based cleaner? it has been years since I used it ... may be time to remedy this condition. I used it as a kid and it seemed like it took lotza scrubbing to bring the fouling outta the metal ... coarse I was using the metal jackets then too so maybe that IS it.

I still maintain that the BP loads will do most jobs needing to be accomplished with a 45 Colt in a rifle. I cant imagine ... if hit rite ... a snazzy little blacktail buck wouldn't meet his ancestors when hit with a 260 or 300 grain boolit of a soft metal mix. heck we used to feed the family with a whole lot less then that amount of power ... coarse the deer ... like it sounds like all other game animals ... could have gotten a lot tougher in the last 40 years. ahhh guess its just me huh? [smilie=1:

[snaketail]

This is the best .45 Colt data I've found. Would like to see more 296/110 info...
Thanks
M

[bigted]

yep ... me too. I cant find those powders yet but as soon as I can ... unless someone else beats me to it.

[TXGunNut]

yep ... me too. I cant find those powders yet but as soon as I can ... unless someone else beats me to it.

I'm using 21 grs of 296 under a similar boolit from Ranch Dog but haven't tried it in a rifle. I shoot it in my Ruger. Only shoot BP in my other .45's.
Dunno what I'm doing wrong but my smokeless cleanup uses more patches and takes longer than BP. Only takes 4 patches for a revolver, 3 for a frontstuffer. Smokeless takes a minimum of 5, generally at least 6 patches.
Ya'll are going to force me to bring that Trapper out of retirement. ;-)

[bigted]

c-mon Tex ... ya know yer gonna ... jest *** whell getter did ... drag that hummer out and get with the program my friend. that Winchester aint gonna shake itself out.

I am havin a ball with my 45 Colt in this Winchester. we are waiting for your range report and fins with loads and accuracy.

[DougGuy]

I accumulated my .45 Colt loads over the years, some came from John Taffin and other writers published in the gun rags before any of us had internet, but the majority of what I use now comes from the current Hodgdon data.

Since way back when I first started loading for Rugers and Trappers, I used 22.5gr W296 or H110 interchangeably under all of the heavy boolits without incident or pressure signs, it just seems a sweet spot for a case with this much volume under the base of the boolit. I use 340gr SSK PB hardcast w/lino over .060" wax sheet gas checks, talk about a load that will rock your world shooting it out of a 4 5/8" Vaquero, whew!

The two fired boolits on the left are exactly those 340gr SSK TC PB designs, they had been driven endways through 32" to 36" of seasoned oak out of that Vaquero when they were recovered between rows of stacked firewood.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01713_zpseefbffc2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01713_zpseefbffc2.jpg.html)

[KirkD]

Here is an article on the 45 Colt in lever guns http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

[Ozarki]

Ted, I had to size mine at .454 for accuracy.

[w30wcf]

I've been shooting the .45 Colt in a rifle since 1997 or thereabouts. I don't hunt much so haven't harvested any game with it. I do like to shoot steel animals though. :grin:

I do like H4227 under a 250-260 gr cast bullet for 1,600 (24.5 grs) and 1,721 (26 grs - capacity load).

With the Gould 330 gr. h.p. .45-70 bullet sized to .457, 20 grs of 296 ballistically duplicates the vintage .45-70-330 loading (1,385 f.p.s.) and is not a maximum load.

I agree that the .45 Colt with b.p. is a lot of fun! Several years ago I tested some original UMC .45 Colt b.p. cartridges (pre 1911) to see what they would have produced in a rifle if a rifle had been chambered in .45 Colt back then. I did have to replace the primers which were dead. Anyway, average velocity ...... 1,241 f.p.s. 40 grs of Swiss or Olde Enysford FFG will provide a ballistic equivalent to the b.p. ammo in the days of yore........

Which bullet are you using? 45-260B? C? D? etc.

w30wcf

[bigted]

my boolit is the 45-260F. it has a generous lube groove and seems to fly pretty good rite now. I am on the search for an old steel Lyman/Ideal receiver sight as this gives me the best of all worlds for accuracy ... don't really get along with the wrist mounted flip-up sights but the receiver mounted peep with the adjustment nobs is just what the doctor ordered.

I have 1 can of 2F GOEX that I been hoarding so think I will open it and load a few 40 grain loads with it and settle both the 266 grain as well as the Lee 301 grain hollow base boolits on there to see what the 2F gives me velocity wise.

[w5pv]

I had a 45 colt in a 92 rossi to follow mw home yesterday,I don't know how it will group but with 6.3 grains of titegroup the four times I shot it at a target at 25 yds I hit with it out of the box.I will see what it will do when the weather clears.There was this guy that was at the gunshop said he reamed the chamber of his Rossi out to 454 and did some minor adjustment to the cartiage lift for the longer boolit.He offered to go get it and let me shoot it but the only intrest I had was if the action was strong enough for the Ruger and Contender loads and that was my answer.The four shots I did pleased me.If I had wanted a 454 Consul I would have bought it in that Chamber and have no intentions trying to make a race horse out of the 45 colt.

[bigted]

guess I had not contemplated the 330 Lyman sized down to fit the case. this sounds interesting and I intend to give it a try. thanks for the tip.

I don't desire to "race horse" my colt chamber either but ... this little rifle is such a sweety that id like to collect game with it as it would carry like a champ and the love affair is just going to get sweeter as time goes by. I want to develop loads that I can ... plink ... hunt ... target shoot ... general rock busting ... so this is the experimentation road I am running. I have settled on a good blackpowder load ...[tho I will continue to experiment n play with it in search of that magical load]... I also have a fairly good load developed with the 2400 powder but the boolits still have mystery and other powders as well sooo ... the pursuit continues with this dandy rifle and I am havin a ball with it.

thanks for all the hints and suggestions and I look forward to all the thoughts and experiences you all have to contribute. for all the foo-forah of the fact that there was never in history ... a 45 colt chambered rifle ... THERE IS NOW ... about time huh? I really like the 45 caliber and always have. since I grew to an age that enabled me to know what I heard ... I have been enamored with the 45 cal. in rifles and pistols and revolvers. my first revolver was an older cattleman style 45 colt in a 7.5 inch barrel ... first muzzle loader was a 45 cal. in a CVA kit ... my love affair has not diminished over the years and this addition is maybe the best yet.

[snaketail]

This thread inspired me to go to the reloading shop today. All they has IMR4227 and Little Gun- I bought the 4227, primers and a couple of ingots of Wheel Weight. Now, if it will warm up enough to go outside I'm gonna cast some 270gr boolits and see how they fly with the 4227. Thanks for the inspiration.
M

[CPL Lou]

Here is an article on the 45 Colt in lever guns http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Thanks for posting this information ! Very helpful :grin:

CPL Lou

[w30wcf]

my boolit is the 45-260F. it has a generous lube groove and seems to fly pretty good rite now. I am on the search for an old steel Lyman/Ideal receiver sight as this gives me the best of all worlds for accuracy ... don't really get along with the wrist mounted flip-up sights but the receiver mounted peep with the adjustment nobs is just what the doctor ordered.

I have 1 can of 2F GOEX that I been hoarding so think I will open it and load a few 40 grain loads with it and settle both the 266 grain as well as the Lee 301 grain hollow base boolits on there to see what the 2F gives me velocity wise.

The .45-260F is a great bullet for black powder (which it was designed for) and smokeless too! It shoots very well out to at least 300 meters with black powder where the steel javelina hang out. :grin:

In my testing, 40 grs. of Goex FFG produced 1,130 f.p.s. in the 24" barrel. Olde Enysford FFG and Swiss FFG have higher ballistic strength and produce 100 f.p.s. or so more velocity but doubt the target / game would know the difference.......

w30wcf .

[w30wcf]

I accumulated my .45 Colt loads over the years, some came from John Taffin and other writers published in the gun rags before any of us had internet, but the majority of what I use now comes from the current Hodgdon data.

Since way back when I first started loading for Rugers and Trappers, I used 22.5gr W296 or H110 interchangeably under all of the heavy boolits without incident or pressure signs, it just seems a sweet spot for a case with this much volume under the base of the boolit. I use 340gr SSK PB hardcast w/lino over .060" wax sheet gas checks, talk about a load that will rock your world shooting it out of a 4 5/8" Vaquero, whew!

The two fired boolits on the left are exactly those 340gr SSK TC PB designs, they had been driven endways through 32" to 36" of seasoned oak out of that Vaquero when they were recovered between rows of stacked firewood.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01713_zpseefbffc2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01713_zpseefbffc2.jpg.html)

Impressive! Several years ago I had gotten some similar bullets which worked fine in my Ruger .45 but would not chamber in the rifle due to the large bullet diameter forward of the crimp groove.

The 335 LBT below center, has a decent size meplat and feeds fine in the rifle. It leaves the 24" barrel @ 1,600 f.p.s. when pushed with a dose of H110 / W296. :grin:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/heavybullets.jpg

Heavier bullets my .45 Colts have known.......

w30wcf

[TXGunNut]

c-mon Tex ... ya know yer gonna ... jest *** whell getter did ... drag that hummer out and get with the program my friend. that Winchester aint gonna shake itself out.

I am havin a ball with my 45 Colt in this Winchester. we are waiting for your range report and fins with loads and accuracy.

Pretty sure I know where it is, there was a minty 375 Big Bore hiding in that same safe until recently. ;-) I have plenty of 454424 boolits lubed up with SPG....I dunno, it's a sweet little 98% Trapper. It's an AE so it's obviously not a collector's piece.
Here's a pic of the sight insert I have on it, I bought it from an outfit called One Ragged Hole but someone else is making them now.

98628

[TXGunNut]

This is what my 45 Trapper hangs around with, another Trapper of all things. This one's a 30-30. Hmm....I load & cast for thutty-thutty....[smilie=1:

98629

[TXGunNut]

I had a 45 colt in a 92 rossi to follow mw home yesterday....w5pv


Nicely done! Darned leverguns do that to me all the time too. ;-) I know some 92's are chambered for 454 but a good stiff 45 Colt load is all I really want. 21 grns 296 is about all I can handle in my RBH so it'll be my limit for the 94...if I can find the little scamp.

[bigted]

pesky things act like they have no home ... just lookin at ya with them John Wayne eyes ... all a feller has to do is not look directly at em ... then those 'poor me' eyes don't bother too much ... its enough to know they got em and are looking at ya that way but ... my experience is that NO direct eye contact allows me to come home alone and without a tag-along lever gun.

look forward to your loads and boolits in yer '94'.

[Nrut]

It's been a loooong winter hasn't it Ted..
LOL

We are having Jan. temps here now..
Below 0*F at night and barely above that during the day..
Not fun!

P.S. >>> Now all you need a is Browning/Winchester Low Wall in .45 Colt..

[bigted]

you can say that again ... this winter is taking away some joy ... March ... what a pistol of a month ... nice warm days ...+20 to +30 above ... sometimes mixed with cold nites and occasionally the -20 or -30 below days ... enough to drive a normal feller nuts! let alone a feller like me where the trip is short.

I do like those heavies TXGunNut ... I have a mold that throws around 350 from an acc # 460345 mold that works thru the action of the '92' with the boolits loaded to 1.600 inch. also I dug out my 457122 and cast a few of them for experimenting with. I sized both down to .454 inch and lubed with SPG lube. I have some of each loaded with 20 grains of the IMR 4227 powder which I will deliver thru the chrony as soon as it stops snowing. I will load up some with blackpowder as well so I can run them thru the screens at the same time.

what fun this rifle is being. may need another in 357 but will wait for another burst of energy for that. thanks for the posts and info. keep em coming ... LOW WALL ... hmmm ... :roll:

[DougGuy]

I'm wanting a levergun to follow me home but this forum has been an eye opener as far as things I would choose to avoid if I could. There is the barrel diameter thing in .44 caliber for the Marlins to watch out for, there are many stories of chambers that must have been reamed with a broomstick dipped in volcanic ash, just little things you pick up here and there.

So far, as of the last decision place I have arrived at, it's looking like a Henry Big Boy in .45 Colt is at the top of the list for now.

It's also looking like a good thing to carry along a fired case from the Vaquero, just to see how/if it will fit in the chamber, and maybe a dummy round or two of the Lee 300gr boolit to see if it will feed and/or chamber @1.720" LOA.

[TXGunNut]

Low wall indeed. They're leverguns, right?

[T-Man]

I inherited an old 92 from my granddad. I load the thing with as much 3f as the case will hold and ram a 250gr water dropped WW on top of it sized to 452 and lubed with NRA 50/50. Not sure what the boolistics are, but it will blow through a deer at 50 yards, leaving a 2 inch hole in the ribs on the other side. Clean up is easy. I keep a black iron bluing tank from Brownell's for the purpose. Strip the wood off. Get the water boiling. Drop the barreled action in and boil it for 15 mins. Lift it out, slosh it around in a solution of dish soap and water, swabbing out bore with bore mop, then back to the boiling water for another 15 mins. Lift out. Dries instantly. Then a dunk in a bath of

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/metalworking-tools/metal-fluids/metalworking-fluids-2/ws-11-5-gallon-pail?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CPTB2oG1gL0CFafm7AodSyUAlA

kept in a chunk of PVC sewer pipe, capped off and strapped to the bench with plumbers tape, hang on a wire to drip until it stops dripping. Wipe down the outside. Reassemble and back to the safe.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Seems about 20 years ago Interarms was importing the Rossi in Caliber .45 Colt. Sales were not the swiftest but happily I latched on to one 10 years ago.
For BP I did use 2f but switched to 3F for near all my BP loading. 3F will give about 100 fps more velocity and burns much cleaner. I have yet to have any fouling in my rifle's action or a newer Rossi (but pre safety). Brass shows no blow back fouling. I use beewax and olive oil lube with a cereal box wad under the Lee 255 RFN boolit cast of range lead.
Both my rifles shoot 19 grains of 2400 so well with the Lee RFN 255 ( which drops at 262 with 50%WW and 50% range scrap) that I never looked any further. I hunt river bottoms and woods so a 70 yard shot would be long. My actual longest corn cruncher shot to date was 34 yards taken with my caliber .58 Zoauve replica. Maybe.. just maybe one day ILLinois will trust us to pop bean eaters with pistol cartriges in a rifle. Longest revolver shot has been 15 yards. That's why I switched back to recurves for most my deer hunting.
Anyway if I need more power I have larger chambered barrels to choose from. Not that any critter east of ol" muddy would need to be hit with a harder thumper under my hunting conditions. Even an upper Michigan or Minnesota moose could be hunted with 45 Colt. Fellers did it with 44 WCF and lesser cartriges quit well. I would think they worked at close distances (50 yards or less).
But if a 45 Colt lever flipper was all I had I would look into 296. I have great respect for that powder in 41 Mag, 414 Supermag and other big cases in carbines and DW revolvers . It burns slow, steady and does not go wankers under pressure. Gives good accuracy and is very hard to beat once you find that sweet pressure place for the boolit you are loading in that particular barrel.
Mike in Peru

[bigted]

I cant remember what the load was ... but got tired of waiting for the wind/snow to stop. sooo took the rifle out into the yard and shot a few of the heavy's ... my what recoil ... took the FUN rite outta this rifle. she came to life and in a hurry. think I will stick to the lower loads ... which as stated above ... should very well take care of the deer in the woods that I will be hunting.

may very well load up some compressed bp under the 300 to 350 grain boolits tho just to see what they act like. cant imagine any black tailed deer runnin far with a 266 to 350 thru the lungs/heart area. I love this rifle and the REASSONABLE loads it likes. guess in my exuberance I tried to make it something that another chamber will take care of in fine shape. tis the reason why to have more then 1 gun ... many uses for each but each has its own job to do.

[TXGunNut]

Gotta try the heavy stuff just to know what the rifle will do. I guess that's why I don't buy fast cars. ;-) The 45 Colt was the "magnum" of it's day and BP level loads or a few hundred fps faster are plenty of power/fun for me.

[yeahbub]

Bigted, it sounds like you've worked out what you want, but I thought to weigh in with my favorite hunting load in a Rossi: 21gr of 2400, Lee 452-255-RF cast of WW, paper patched, tumble lubed and sized .453, Win LPP. This seems to compare closely with your Accurate 266gr and 20.5gr of 2400. I've never had one fail to exit deer and they speak with satisfying authority. I know I haven't explored the limits with the .45 Colt in the M92, but this suits all the needs I'm likely to have in the hilly environs hereabout.

I went to paper patching after being dissatisfied with the streakiness in the bore. Now there's only powder fouling and lube residue to clean, which has simplified the task.

If I had my 'druthers, it would have a shotgun butt, but as well as it shoots, the crescent can stay.

[RobS]

So far, as of the last decision place I have arrived at, it's looking like a Henry Big Boy in .45 Colt is at the top of the list for now.

It's also looking like a good thing to carry along a fired case from the Vaquero, just to see how/if it will fit in the chamber, and maybe a dummy round or two of the Lee 300gr boolit to see if it will feed and/or chamber @1.720" LOA.

The Big Boys wont take the longer COL that the 92's will but should work with the shorter COL of the Lee 45-300 RF. The Henry 44 Big Boy will digest the 44-310 RF nicely with the shorter COL seated crimp. Likely around 1.600" to 1.625" ish for the 45 Colt as well.

[bigted]

ahhh ... didn't recon on patchin for this 45 colt. dandy idea and now I gotta try it out for it. thanks for another addition to my patchin fever. I also don't like the leading that is happening but I need to solve that problem by its self. may just be runnin em too hot for my mix. patchin would surely smooth out the barrel ... pretty smooth as is tho.

[robertbank]

Bigted, it sounds like you've worked out what you want, but I thought to weigh in with my favorite hunting load in a Rossi: 21gr of 2400, Lee 452-255-RF cast of WW, paper patched, tumble lubed and sized .453, Win LPP. This seems to compare closely with your Accurate 266gr and 20.5gr of 2400. I've never had one fail to exit deer and they speak with satisfying authority. I know I haven't explored the limits with the .45 Colt in the M92, but this suits all the needs I'm likely to have in the hilly environs hereabout.

I went to paper patching after being dissatisfied with the streakiness in the bore. Now there's only powder fouling and lube residue to clean, which has simplified the task.

If I had my 'druthers, it would have a shotgun butt, but as well as it shoots, the crescent can stay.

I had a 'smith straighten the buttstock and put a recoil pad on my .44 mag Rossi. Took the pain out of shooting the gun even with regular loads.

Bob

[yeahbub]

Until I got to paper patching all and sundry, one of the maneuvers that was useful in reducing leading in straight case cartridges was to load the boolit over a card wad and lube cookie .080-.120 thick. One may have to reduce the load if it's pretty stout due to the reduction in case volume, but having that cookie leaving a layer of lube on the bore with each shot went a long way toward removing existing leading and preventing new. I cleaned many a barrel with reduced card wad/lube cookie loads after falling plate and action matches using commercial cast. A good way to get that lube star on the muzzle, too. Vastly more fun than trying to scrub metallic fouling out of there. That was just too much like work. The down side is when one needs all the case volume possible for propellant, and one doesn't want to reduce what could be a 100% load density charge. This is where paper patching shines. No leading at all and no need for more lube. Just for simplicity's sake, and to easily tell them apart, pistol grade and "cleaning" rounds are bare cast and the "serious" rifle rounds are patched.

[bigted]

got some 300's and some 350's patched and drying as we speak. gotta see if these will shoot at all.

I have a cowboy 45-70 that has some crud in the bore under the stamp on the right side of the barrel rite where it says WARNING so I also have 20 350's patched up to work on its bore with. other option is taking it to the smith to see if the metal has been "punched" into the bore and if so then maybe I can build a 'plug' to work over the section of bore and try to clean it up.

if all else fails with the CB rifle ... I may have a sure fire candidate for that re-lining job for that lever 40-65 winny I have always wanted. heck I already load for my roller in that caliber so notching it down in boolit weight and thus OAL should be a natural for this thin barreled rifle.

[yeahbub]

Wow, it's visible? I've heard that stamping indentations are surprisingly common, often being very slight and going undetected. Sounds like a lap job, but I read some posts that unlubed PP will do it too. That might take a while, I would think.

I'm interested in hearing how the PP compare to bare lubed.

The comments about using 3F black in .45 Colt and the velocities people get have got my curiosity up. I think I'm going to have to try that.

[bigted]

im not sure yet if the spot in my Cow Boy barrel is lead or steel ... this is the why of shooting 20 un-lubed paperpatched boolits thru her. I have lapped several barrels in my illustrious career but never had such a lump to remove ... IF its steel. lead will be removed with the patched boolits but steel will remain in place. the reason I turned a sharp eye to this barrel is the fact that I cant shoot anything without it leading it thoroughly.

IF it be steel that has been "stamped" too deep and punched thru into the barrel ... im not sure that the lapping will do the trick as it seems to me that in the lapping process ... the rest of the barrel in that area would be lapped away at the same time ... hence developing a "bulge" in the barrel in that spot and thusely creating a spot where the gas "COULD" bypass the boolit and hereby creating a spot which would create leading from the hot gas passing the lead projectile and stripping small areas of melted lead from the side of the boolit and the lead mining that I already have with this Marlin Cow Boy 45-70.

the Winchester 45 Colt however seems to lead the barrel with the higher velocity loads ... maybe having to do with the lube I use. I have SPG in the lubrisizer for my slower velocity smokeless and blackpowder loads. I don't want to remove this lube as it is what I use the most of ... so the patched loads for shoots and grins to find a hunting load that will be used for blacktail in the woods. as has been mentioned tho ... the 266 grain loads at slower velocity should fill the freezer just fine so might be just messing to be messing ... may already have the best of the best.

I know that these 266 grain loads are sure a hoot to shoot. they are mild on the arm ... both the one attached to my shoulder AND the rifle! I am going to have to go to the range with a bundle of them to experiment with some bracket loading to discover what she likes for accuracy ... if ya cant hit it ... don't matter how powerful the load.

still n all these paper patched loads will be an eye opener for me and will enable me to see for myself if they want to perform better in this rifle.

[TXGunNut]

Sometimes I wish I had a borescope. I think they're getting more affordable. Getting a good look at this bore anomally would make sure take the guesswork out of this for you.

[bigted]

I completely agree. maybe someday but for now I shot the patched boolits and a couple jacketed and nothing changed. I brought it home and scrubbed the bore then took a slug and drove it thru and out ... then took it and smeared clover valve grinding compound on it and shoved it back n forth over the spot with no seeming change. I think somehow it is steel from some anomaly. gonna take it to the smith and have him look at it thru a scope to determine what if anything can be done or a lost cause. wont abide the leading with every shot thru this CowBoy. more news at 11 so to speak.

[TXGunNut]

Harbor Freight has one now and then, sometimes cheap Chinese junk is better than guesswork.

[yeahbub]

The only truly satisfactory lapping I've been able to accomplish is pressure lapping. It takes off high spots or restrictions aggressively while leaving low places smoothed but largely intact. The added benefit is making the barrel consistent from end to end. I have had barrels with what seemed bizarrely tight spots which benefitted greatly from a lap on a rod, but they were never really finished until fire lapping was done. It's true, though, that nothing will really replace a good look through a borescope. You may want to be sitting down, though. Some of the things I've seen (cracks, fissures, tool marks) were startling, even though the barrels were veterans of years of service and apparently perfectly safe. In one, the rifling looked like an aerial photo of railroad tracks, the ties representing the chatter marks of the button it was rifled with. That one was a real copper queen until it was lapped, but it went from groups measured in feet at 100 yards to almost minute of angle

[TXGunNut]

Well, it's almost 11 local time. Any news?

[bigted]

LOL ... nope ... dang thing still has the pesky lumps in there. I even tried to punch em out with an old cleaning rod ... nuttin to report. still has em in there and study em for all im worth, I gotta take it to the smith and have him look up close n personal to tell me what the deal is in there.

as for the 45 Colt ... I have settled on the 22 grains 2400 powder under the 266 grain accurate ball. this boolit should drag down just about anything that gets in its way for about 100 to 125 yards ... maybe a little further but I will wait for the shot for this yardage. black powder is fun and im thinkin that I have some foolin round yet as im getting split cases in a larger chamber so may have to go with a larger boolit diameter and not size the cases but just enough to grab the boolit with friction a bit before crimping

its all keepin me off the streets so to speak but im havin a ball doing so.

[TXGunNut]

LOL ... nope ... dang thing still has the pesky lumps in there. I even tried to punch em out with an old cleaning rod ... nuttin to report. still has em in there and study em for all im worth, I gotta take it to the smith and have him look up close n personal to tell me what the deal is in there. -bigted

Sometimes I just put a project on the back burner until I figure it out. One sure way to botch a repair is to attempt it without fully understanding what is really wrong and if possible what caused it. Too windy to enjoy a range trip today so I'm working on taxes and other onerous chores again today...after one more cup of coffee. ;-)

[bigted]

I hear ya ... the colt rifle is on hold as I need to get some larger boolits in diameter ... the marlin CB rifle is on hold as I do want to be sure of what im doing before going further ... on to other fun things ... your tax stuff sounds like you need another project to see to instead of those awful tax headack.

been trying to cram cartridge blackpowder into a winchester case just to see what is possible for now. so far I got 90 grains under a .460 inch 350 grain boolit. I will post on the bp cartridge section when I have some news worth reporting. for now ... this is keeping me off the streets.

[salvadore]

I had an Uberti '73 in .45 Colt that I tried getting it to shoot for years. Started out with Pyrodex ended up with 2400 and at least 4 different cast bullets and never could get any decent accuracy. A week ago I purchased a Chiappa '92 SRC, $650 plus tax. I believe it's the same one Cimarron sells for $1100+. Because of the cheesy sights I screwed on a Marble tang sight and headed for the range with rounds I loaded for the '73. After adjusting sights my first two five shot groups went into 2"s at 50yds. This may not impress people that can still see, but I was thrilled. My '73 never shot a 2" group or even a 4" group, the groups looked more like patterns. This was with Lee's 255gr flat point and 17gr of 2400.

Guess it's too late to make a long story short, but I was wondering if anyone had a handle on pressures with 2400 and a 255gr bullet. The 17 grain load is stout compared to the 5gr. of trailboss and remington's swaged 255gr. in the '92. That load also shoots into 2" but quite a bit higher. Any help would be appreciated.

[Freddyfour]

I have been playing around with the 45 Colt a little bit. Used to have a 20" Rossi but traded that in for a 16" version. I haven't shot all the loads through the Trapper yet but this is what I have.

From left to right

250gr made by DRG with a small dose of Unique under it
300gr XTP with a hot dose of H110
300gr WFN PB with a medium dose of H110
340gr WFN GC with a full load of H110
102227
102228
102229

[bigted]

looks like a fun rifle but cant think the 340 grain loads are a lot of fun.

[TXGunNut]

looks like a fun rifle but cant think the 340 grain loads are a lot of fun.

Suspect that load doesn't lend itself to all-day range sessions, might be good medicine for cranky four-legged aggressors.

[Freddyfour]

looks like a fun rifle but cant think the 340 grain loads are a lot of fun.

They are actually not to bad, no worse then 2 3/4" magnum slug. Plus the leather butt cover takes off a little of the bite from the steel plate.

[bigted]

when im in the brush with ol URSULAS I like either my 444 with 300's going the speed of lite and no fun either ... or my 45-70 loaded with either 350's or 400's at around 1800 FPS ... no joy for prolonged shooting either ... BUT ... if old fang comes huffin n gruntin n blowin snot bubbles ... I have faith that these ... either one ... will give out a bit of punishment and im bettin that the adrenaline will negate the un-fun shooting chore.

my 45 Colt Winchester will be a nice carry gun in Oregon where the Biters are a bit smaller and not so energetic as the ones up here. she is just a very nice ... smooth ... slender ... sexy rifle to handle and shoot ... not a Bear gun for me.

[snaketail]

I ran out a batch of Lee 456-220gr rn boolits and tried them in my Rossi. I loaded then with 8.0gr of Unique and found the accuracy good, recoil was almost non-existant and the functioned fine. The boolit is a round nose (nor flat) so I loaded only two, levered one into battery - fired one, loaded one.

Happy with the results, but my casts were a bit soft and I got a bit of leading - will try water drop for the next batch.

These were the first boolits that I cast, lubed, loaded and fired my self. Not bear loads, but darn fun to shoot. My rifle likes fat boolits and these seemed to be right for the Rossi.

(My bear load is the 285gr SAA boolit over 10gr of Unique - and my really big bear load is the same boolit in .454 with 14gr of Unique...and,thanks for the recoil pad Mr Rossi.)

[TXGunNut]

my 45 Colt Winchester will be a nice carry gun in Oregon where the Biters are a bit smaller and not so energetic as the ones up here. she is just a very nice ... smooth ... slender ... sexy rifle to handle and shoot ... not a Bear gun for me. -bigted

I wasn't endorsing going after a bear with a 45 Colt. Just figured the best bear gun is sometimes the one you happen to be carrying when a bear wants to stick his nose in your business. Most Texans don't know nuthin' about bears anyway, we don't have any dangerous game down here.

[robertbank]

my 45 Colt Winchester will be a nice carry gun in Oregon where the Biters are a bit smaller and not so energetic as the ones up here. she is just a very nice ... smooth ... slender ... sexy rifle to handle and shoot ... not a Bear gun for me. -bigted

I wasn't endorsing going after a bear with a 45 Colt. Just figured the best bear gun is sometimes the one you happen to be carrying when a bear wants to stick his nose in your business. Most Texans don't know nuthin' about bears anyway, we don't have any dangerous game down here.

You got Mr. No shoulders which is a heck of a lot more dangerous than any of our bears up here including Mr. Grizz. Did I say I hate snakes......:D

Take Care

Bob

[bigted]

Nobade ... wasn't finding fault at all. just stating what I use for them here. I would rather take a scare from a grizz then be terrified by them ankle biters that slither thru the grass down yer way. im bettin the hogs need some special doins as well.

no im in agreement with ya ... whatever is in the hand will do rather then a short stick. I knew a feller in Oregon that had a huggin contest with a black bear as he was squatin and takin care of some personal business and he killed it with a round from his 38 spcl. stuck the dang short 2.5 inch barrel muzzle into the bears ear which he found with his finger and blew his brain off center. after layin under the bear for a few minutes and wonderin if he were dead ... he crawled out and had to set still for a lil while as the shakes made walkin impossible for him.

moral I guess is that while a short barrel 38 isn't exactly bear medicine ... it worked out for Shorty [6 foot 4 inch] in his time of need. ...[you ever heard of a real short guy being called "Shorty"? or a slim feller being called "Tiny"?

jest putting it out there. :kidding: ... :drinks:

[starmac]

Well I finally took the 45 cowboy out to 36 mile chena yesterday. The only reason I bought it was it was a cowboy, I wasn't really interested in a pistol caliber rifle. I think it is going to be my new fun gun, it feeds them big lees, like butter any way you want to cycle it. You could bust clays as fast as you could lever it, with light loads of unigue, it was more like shooting a 22.
The only problem I had with it, was my wife thought it was pure fun too, so now I'm thinking maybe she needs a 357, to match her handgun. lol

[bigted]

starmac ... glad to hear about your outing ... was the snow rotten there yet?

now for the real good news ... your wife will need a good rifle that will please her ... cant think of another shopping process with the wife that could possibly top that !!! :drinks:

[Doc.Holliday]

My favorite most accurate hunting load for my Winchester Colt 45 is 12.5 gr of 800X pushing a 240 gr RNFP flat base bullet.
Has proven itself on Whitetail and Black bear for me.
Ken Waters seemed to like this powder as well in a Review he did on the Winchester in 45 colt
Another fine round was the same bullet pushed by 11.1 gr of Power Pistol.
I tried this combo in a Rossi 92 in 45 with less than satisfying results ; but out of 5 Rossi leverguns in 4 different calibers I am down to one now( hopefully soon none) due to less than satisfying results in every aspect . Sorry Rossi fans but I personally got no patience for poorly made junk
Doc

[Freddyfour]

The Rossi's certainly are not the top of the line but for me they are the only ones producing rifles in the configurations that I want. If Winchester would make one exactly like my Rossi I would trade it in in a heart beat.

[snaketail]

Dear Doc.Holliday
"Sorry Rossi fans but I personally got no patience for poorly made junk "
And you live half a year in Mexico...must be difficult for you there.

M

[bigted]

may I add that one mans junk is another's treasure?

all in the eye of the beholder!

[robertbank]

My favorite most accurate hunting load for my Winchester Colt 45 is 12.5 gr of 800X pushing a 240 gr RNFP flat base bullet.
Has proven itself on Whitetail and Black bear for me.
Ken Waters seemed to like this powder as well in a Review he did on the Winchester in 45 colt
Another fine round was the same bullet pushed by 11.1 gr of Power Pistol.
I tried this combo in a Rossi 92 in 45 with less than satisfying results ; but out of 5 Rossi leverguns in 4 different calibers I am down to one now( hopefully soon none) due to less than satisfying results in every aspect . Sorry Rossi fans but I personally got no patience for poorly made junk
Doc

I would sell my Rossi's off in a heart beat if Remington/Marlin made there lever guns available up here at a decent price and made them for 38spl/.357amg, 44 Mag, amd 45 Colt. They don't or won't. I guess they just have to much business in the lower 48 to bother.

Take Care

Bob

[Doc.Holliday]

Dear Doc.Holliday
"Sorry Rossi fans but I personally got no patience for poorly made junk "
And you live half a year in Mexico...must be difficult for you there.

M

Maybe Rossi should move there; Most major car companies and aircraft companies from North America and Europe are building there now. Should up Rossi quality by 100%, certainly couldn't hurt. I don't remember saying anything disparaging about Brazil,just Rossi ?? Oh well
In "My" experiences I'll shoot my Winchesters, Marlin, and Browning levers thank-you very much.

Doc

[robertbank]

Dear Doc.Holliday
"Sorry Rossi fans but I personally got no patience for poorly made junk "
And you live half a year in Mexico...must be difficult for you there.

M

Yuo some of us are brave and not real bright. Every year one or two Canadians get murdered down there. It is kind of like a lottery. You win if you get back home safely.

Take Care

Bob

[Doc.Holliday]

[QUOTE=robertbank;2742175]Yuo some of us are brave and not real bright. Every year one or two Canadians get murdered down there. It is kind of like a lottery. You win if you get back home safely.

Take Care

I don't know what criticizing Mexico or ridiculing those that live there has to do with "Japchester 1892 45 colt loads" but to each his own.
I guess it's a defensive Rossi thing. Enough said

Regards
Doc.

[TXGunNut]

Nobade ... wasn't finding fault at all. just stating what I use for them here. I would rather take a scare from a grizz then be terrified by them ankle biters that slither thru the grass down yer way. im bettin the hogs need some special doins as well.-bigted


Actually, the pigs like snakes. For breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks....they think rattles sound like dinner bells. So much so that more and more rattlers....don't. (Darwin proven right again!) That's OK, I can't hear them anyway.

[TXGunNut]

Denigrating Rossi's and Mexico in this thread? And things were going so well.

[starmac]

I have a hard time hearing a rattler, but I was installing a new water tank on a ranch, and the old rancher had cataracts, so couldn't see well. He was following me as I walked by a tractor, with a rattler in the shade under it. All of a sudden he was on my shoulders spurring me, trying to get me going, apparently he still had good hearing. lol

[bigted]

I have a hard time hearing a rattler, but I was installing a new water tank on a ranch, and the old rancher had cataracts, so couldn't see well. He was following me as I walked by a tractor, with a rattler in the shade under it. All of a sudden he was on my shoulders spurring me, trying to get me going, apparently he still had good hearing. lol


now THATS funny !!! just the mental image is grand

[snaketail]

Not long ago, on another web site, a poster gave me a hard time about my Browning BL-22 rifle. Said he'd never owned one, and wouldn't buy Jap-Junk.
Last month that same "junk" Browning beat the pants off that same guy in a silhouette match. If ya gonna talk the talk, then ya gotta walk the walk.

The point is - don't criticize what you don't own. I suspect our Mexico to Canada shooter doesn't own a Rossi. I do own one, I shoot it well - although not as well as my "junk" Browning BL-22 or my Winchester 94. And, its just my opinion, but I think all are better than the new Marlins, but that's a different thread.

[bigted]

allz I know is that my new to me Winchester is a joy to shoot and I HAVE owned the Rossi 92's and thought enough of them that my grandbabies each have one from a very proud PA PA. a 357 mag 20 inch and the other a 45 colt also a 20 incher. both are good shooters and I figure a very cool keepsake for the grand kids. they are a bit rougher then my Winchester but at 1/3rd the price ... I guess the rough can be overlooked in favor of a good safe shooting lever for the kids to begin on.

I have not done much with it [the Winchester] lately but am looking forward to taking a blacktail deer with it when we get settled in Ory-Gun. I got some 40 grain loads done up for it with 2F powder and I figure this will do a smack down on em in fine shape what with the 260 grain 'accurate molds' boolits. come to think about it ... may have to squeeze out some time to go shoot em soon so the border crossing goes a bit smoother. don't know about my powder stash ... may have to make it a contribution to the border gods but... will be back in the country that powder can be had in again.

[starmac]

Big Ted, it sounds like you are moving out. If so check the regs, you can take quite a bit of ammo and powder out with no problem.

I don't know the exact amount, but when I have told them I had ammo, all they have ever done is ask me if I had over 10,000 rounds, never even ask to look at it.

[robertbank]

Starmac was that asked of you when you traveled through Canada to the lower 48? I know we are limited to 10K on our Form 6 when I list my ammo I am going down with. All my ammo is my reloads. I have never thought to include components.

Take Care

Bob

[starmac]

Yes, ask at canadians customs.. I don't know the exact amount you can carry. Everytime I have told them I had ammo they have either never ask how much or ask if I had over 10,000 rounds somewhat jokingly. I do know it is legal to carry a fair amount for an individual, and there is a way if you are a business, to get a permit to carry more, but I never needed to check into that.

This is just for passing through Canada, it could be and probably would be different if I was just visiting Canada and coming back.

[robertbank]

Yes, ask at canadians customs.. I don't know the exact amount you can carry. Everytime I have told them I had ammo they have either never ask how much or ask if I had over 10,000 rounds somewhat jokingly. I do know it is legal to carry a fair amount for an individual, and there is a way if you are a business, to get a permit to carry more, but I never needed to check into that.

This is just for passing through Canada, it could be and probably would be different if I was just visiting Canada and coming back.

I think we have an agreement to allow travelers from Alaska to transverse Canada on their way to the lower 48 and return. You should check into it. It probably involves having handguns registered in Canada, locked in a case with a trigger lock and an understanding you are travelling direct to a US Border crossing. Long guns would not be registered but best to have them locked up and away from ammo.
AFAIK Canada does not have any restrictions on ammo but we may mirror the US restrictions in that regard. ALWAYS declare guns if you have them when entering Canada and do the paper work before you leave home. The only time you run into real problems if you don't declare the guns or ammo. Not much to the paper work from what I can see.

I do the same going south. US Border Patrol are quite friendly and deal with the paperwork quickly. Not sure this would be the case without the proper authorizations in place ahead of time.

Take Care

Bob

[starmac]

I have carried long guns many times across Canada, just buy the permit at the border, with no problem ever. Pistols are a different story though. There is a way to be able to carry them, but it is more of a process, and you can't just show up at the border and get any permit. Ammo has a limit, but it is fairly generous, and no permit required unless it is over the limit.

[TXGunNut]

I have a hard time hearing a rattler, but I was installing a new water tank on a ranch, and the old rancher had cataracts, so couldn't see well. He was following me as I walked by a tractor, with a rattler in the shade under it. All of a sudden he was on my shoulders spurring me, trying to get me going, apparently he still had good hearing. lol


Teamwork!

[bigted]

so what paperwork do I need and where do I get it Bob? is this just a print form off the internet or do I have to go to somebody official to get it? getting kinda late but I want to have a smooth crossing.

yes im movin south. 15 years has been very generous of my wife to put up with the rustic lifestyle I love. im getting old too tho and the cold is beginning to hurt ... as well as the huntin n fishin in Oregon ... best of both worlds with no snarlin grizz or onery bulls to tolerate.

be nice once again ... to be able to shoot something and after dropping the guts ... throw it over a shoulder and take it back in 1 trip to the pickup. or be able to go fishin in January without having to install my nipple muff's.

[robertbank]

so what paperwork do I need and where do I get it Bob? is this just a print form off the internet or do I have to go to somebody official to get it? getting kinda late but I want to have a smooth crossing.

yes im movin south. 15 years has been very generous of my wife to put up with the rustic lifestyle I love. im getting old too tho and the cold is beginning to hurt ... as well as the huntin n fishin in Oregon ... best of both worlds with no snarlin grizz or onery bulls to tolerate.

be nice once again ... to be able to shoot something and after dropping the guts ... throw it over a shoulder and take it back in 1 trip to the pickup. or be able to go fishin in January without having to install my nipple muff's.

Are yo going to go south with handguns or just long guns?

Starmac has crossed several times and lives near you maybe he can fill you in better than I. As a Canadian I only have to deal with your ATF and their forms.

If you can't connect with Starmac PM me your phone number and I will give you a call. I will look up the info you need tomorrow afternoon. I have a shoot in the morning.

Take Care

Bob

[bigted]

thanks Bob ... great idea and it would be great to finally meet someone that posts here. been nearly a shut-in so will be great to get out and meet-n-greet another friend.

[Doc.Holliday]

I don't know why our St. Louis Mo shooter is so hung up about what country I dwell in to keep harping on that fact and after all I did say I was sorry for Rossi"s poorly made junk and I will most certainly agree that there are extremely well made imported firearms coming from Japan, Finland ,Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia , probably even China etc but not Brazil I.M.O.
From the "Rossi Rifleman Forum " The following sticky - "Considering the Purchase of a Rossi? Read this Warning!
by Ranch Dog » 05 Apr 2014 10 "
Seems even the creator of a forum dedicated to Rossi now has serious misgivings.
Oh and I still have one Rossi 92 that I cannot or will not sell or giveaway as I could NEVER do that to another shooter and sleep comfortably at night. The worst mail order purchase I made of a NEW firearm in my life.
I can see Rossi 's being a positive to the economy of the country's gunsmiths - providing they can get parts anymore.
Hope you had a nice Easter in St Louis, Mo.
Doc

[starmac]

Aren't winchester model 70's made in Brazil now?

[TXGunNut]

Aren't winchester model 70's made in Brazil now?


That's what I heard, don't know when the move will take place...if it hasn't already.

[Doc.Holliday]

What I read:

Winchester has recently admitted on its Facebook page that 2013 will see Model 70 rifles assembled in Portugal instead of South Carolina. Winchester states that the change will allow them to increase their output of Model 70 rifles to meet demand. Parts for the rifles will still be made in the U.S.A., but will be shipped to Portugal for final assembly and fitting before being shipped back to the U.S.A. for sales and distribution. SX2, SX3, and Model 101 over/under shotguns are already manufactured according to this model, so it must be more efficient than it sounds. Winchester aficionados already differentiate between pre- 1964 and post- 1964 manufactured Model 70 rifles. Will this change of final assembly point add yet another line in the sand for collectors to debate over? Only the finished product will determine if there is any significant difference in quality between the South Carolina assembled rifles built through 2012 and Portuguese assembled rifles built starting in 2013… - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/01/06/winchester-to-move-model-70-production-to-portugal-in-2013/#sthash.E70pi4QV.dpuf

[robertbank]

FN has been making the HIPower in Portugal for years. No reason to suspect the quality will go down. Who owns the rights to the Winchester name now?

Take Care

Bob

[starmac]

The move took place over a year ago. I remember wwg posting that they had got a letter, saying that shipment was the last of the US made M 70's. It may be portugal where they are made now.