Hopefully, my last over-charge...

[SniderBoomer]

Lyman 358428, 3.5 grains Bullseye, new Starline brass, CCI SPP. That was the intention.

Fired off a couple in my 1894c. It was a busy night a the range, lots of noise, but somehow this light load didn't feel light at all.

Stopped right there.

On both, saw this ring about 1/10th inch where the case brass is thickest:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2h6u2p2.jpg

I've seen worse flattened primers, but this is what I got.

http://i61.tinypic.com/28taxqd.jpg

I pulled them back home. Mortified to find all the batch were carrying 8.5 grains Bullseye.

I'm normally meticulous, but been having eye problems and stress to match. I can only think I set the bar-scales wrong, namely that first notch in the main slide-bar scale, I think it was on '5' when I meant it sat there on '0'. It's such a fine little thing to see. I am assuming my Powder dropper would never make a gross error like that.

The brass with correct loads of 3.5 Bullseye seem to stay around 1.282, these two were stretched to 1.292 on one firing.

My first and last overcharge, I'll be making sure of it.

Hey, nobody likes admitting mistakes like this, but, I did one. Learn from me, be meticulous. If you get bad stress, ailments, not sleeping right - take a break.

[uaskme]

It is easy to make a mistake no matter how meticulous or experienced you are. Glad stretched cases are all you got.

[NSB]

Glad you're OK and nothing came apart. Just a suggestion and not a critique....you might want to consider a different powder and put more volume in the case. It's easy to check for overload that way. Bullseye to my way of thinking isn't the right powder for a case like this. Just a thought....

[C. Latch]

Wow. I wonder what pressure/velocity that generated?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid here but you might also want to have your chambers that those were fired in checked out with some of that micro-fracture spotting die. Don't want to have a KB with your normal loads either because you weakened the cylinder.

[Goatwhiskers]

You have my sympathy. Did the same thing myself with some .38's. Don't recall the powder, but the charge was to be 7.5gr, somehow had bumped the pea over on the scale and the actual charge was 12.5gr. This also was my only venture into loading for someone else. The guy came back telling of how stiff the loads were, had to knock the empties out with a block of wood. Mind you he shot up the whole 150 rounds. I had not used my scale since, that was how I found what the problem was. I'm a lot more careful now, also I won't load for others, nor shoot someone else's reloads. Too soon old, too late smart. GW

[Dan Cash]

Get one of those unreliable (sarc) digital scales and a powder measure.

[Animal]

Snider, thanks for posting your experience and pics. The majority of education I've had in reloading is through various books, with black and white photos. The pictures you posted are much easier for me to wrap my mind around than the ones in the books.

I'm glad you are okay!

I've intentionally double-charged a case with the powder of choice, place it in my loading block, compare it to a properly charged case next to it, shine my flashlight over the case and try to commit to memory what a double charge would look like. I've found that even with a flashlight it can be easy to overlook a doublecharge... especially if your mind is on auto pilot.

[fecmech]

what is a Lyman 358428??

[country gent]

A good place for a set of rcbs check wieghts. Checking the set scale after setting it with a the 1 grn 2 grnand .5 grn together would have shown the error. Checking and rechecking a measuring insturment is never a waste of time.

[dverna]

Check weights would NOT have found the problem. The guy made a mistake in setting the scale.

I agree with Dan Cash. I stopped using a balance scale long ago. Too easy to make a mistake or to get something "bumped". I check the digital scale then check my drops on a digital scale. Once the powder measure is set, I check a powder drop every primer tube (100 rds). So much faster and reliable.

One other thing you may want to consider if you do not have a digital scale is to make a "powder checker" for your favorite loads. A dowel that fits the case with a line marked for the correct charge volume is cheap, easy to do and fast to use.

I have never over charged but came close once doing the same thing as the OP. I was just lucky to catch it.

Don Verna

[osteodoc08]

Glad you werent injured. I wonder sometimes when I will find an overcharged case. I dont fret over it and make sure I double check everything, but loading with high energy powders (small doses) worries me some. When I load with 2400 or similar, a double charge will over fill the case. Another reason I have been leaning towards trailboss with light revolver loads. I havent encountered a problem, but its always back in theback of my mind. I've only had 2 squibs. Enough for me.

[SniderBoomer]

Very kind and worthwhile replies folks. Yep, a big reminder to stay sharp doing this.

I taped 'stretch' on my powder dispenser, hopefully, this will remind my old eyes to double check the scales every session:

http://i59.tinypic.com/abtr8j.jpg

[SniderBoomer]

what is a Lyman 358428??

A typo, I meant the Lyman mold number 358429, based on an original design by no less than Elmer Keith

One of the best 357/38 boolits I have in my stash. No mold collection is complete without that one ;-)

[w0fms]

Especially on 38, which I really like Bullseye for, I've considered milling down a case on the lathe as a "volume" check as well.. (kinda like a custom Lee dipper, but only for a sanity check) I may do that someday. .38 is a great caliber to reload for but I hesitate to recommend it for a beginner since the cartridge size was designed for black powder! I wonder if that fancy RCBS "charge master" might be a good investment someday.. I do typically check my primary scale against two others I have and check weights as well. But I am worried about a hot or double load on 38 someday as well. My only mistake was not putting powder in a 38 at all so far.. and I don't know how I did that.. but on a revolver that was a "fun lesson" as the boolit got stuck in the forcing cone and locked up the cylinder.. had to pound it back into the case. I suppose I was lucky as well... It all turned out ok... scared the living bejeesus out of me at the time tho...

Fred

[Bullshop Junior]

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid here but you might also want to have your chambers that those were fired in checked out with some of that micro-fracture spotting die. Don't want to have a KB with your normal loads either because you weakened the cylinder.

He said he shot them in a lever gun. Probably no harm done.

[MtGun44]

REALLY good that you didn't put 8.5 Gr of BE in a valuable revolver like
a K38. I imagine that would launch the top half of the cylinder and top\
strap into low earth orbit.

In a stong rifle, looks like no real harm done and a good lesson learned for
a low cost.

Bill

[nanuk]

the primer doesn't look flattened at all

the brass bulge looks little different than some rifles I have.

can you post some fired brass from known FULL Power loads, or factory loads, so we can see how THEY come out of your chamber?

perhaps your gun's chamber is a bit loose.

I did some searching and found loads around 6.3gr Bullseye under a 180gr JACKETED bullet, and it was not listed as MAX.

what IS the max load for a rifle using 180gr and Bullseye?

[Pb2au]

Just goes to show;
1) double and triple check.
2) when your gut is telling you something, listen. Call it feral instinct or whatever.
Really glad you came out of it ok and your rifle was fine.
An excellent reminder to us all.

[SniderBoomer]

the primer doesn't look flattened at all

the brass bulge looks little different than some rifles I have.

can you post some fired brass from known FULL Power loads, or factory loads, so we can see how THEY come out of your chamber?

perhaps your gun's chamber is a bit loose.

I did some searching and found loads around 6.3gr Bullseye under a 180gr JACKETED bullet, and it was not listed as MAX.

what IS the max load for a rifle using 180gr and Bullseye?


Interesting question, I too have never seen a bulge like that, however, the brass was new and unsized, and this may be a factor.


As an aside, I saw this a couple of weeks ago, somehow, a 44 got touched-off in a 45LC.

http://i62.tinypic.com/ibmh60.jpg

[Bullshop Junior]

I had a whole box of factory hornady 454 ammo someone gave me bulge just like that.

[Echd]

When I go hunting for brass on the police range I see an alarming amount of 9mm that was blown out in a .40 chamber like that, and complete .380 cartridges that I can only assume get mixed in with 9mm and were tossed when they failed to function.

[telebasher]

I'll bet that just about everyone of us that has cast and reloaded for a while has made a few dumb mistakes whether they will admit to it or not. I know I have and will probably do so again if I don't stop relying on memory and use my reloading notes.

[762 shooter]

The very first rounds I ever loaded back 38 years ago were 22 grains of 296 under a 44 mag 240 XTP. I finished loading 50 and double checked my scale and I had set it to 12 grains. Asked several seasoned reloaders about just shooting them out and was informed about never downloading 296. Bought my first inertia bullet puller the next day and never looked back. I do look at my balance beam scale setting quite often during the process ever since.

762

[geargnasher]

I made an awschitt like that a year or two ago, set the scales, adjusted the measure, and threw a whole batch of .30-30 10 grains overcharged because I put the weight in the wrong place. Fortunately, when I did the "light check" of all the cases in the block, I noticed the powder was all up to the base of the neck and that is WAY too much RX 7. Dumped all of them back in the bottle, emptied the measure, and walked away until a time I was less tired. From that day forth I use my El Cheapo digital scale as a final check to make sure I'm in the ballpark at least before throwing the charges. It's nice to get an analog AND digital input to the brain before building explosives. Something about both reading a Vernier scale and seeing the numbers on the digital display gels it for me.

Gear

[Bullwolf]

I use my El Cheapo digital scale as a final check to make sure I'm in the ballpark at least before throwing the charges. It's nice to get an analog AND digital input to the brain before building explosives. Something about both reading a Vernier scale and seeing the numbers on the digital display gels it for me.

Gear

I still don't entirely trust the inexpensive digital Frankford Arsenal DS750 scale I purchased on sale at Midway. However that being said, the digital scale has been an excellent double checking tool when used to compare charges weighed on a vernier scale assuring me that I have not made any kind of set up error.

I have caught a potential mistake or two I might have made this way, and now its a common part of my reloading practice to use both digital and analog scales together.

I even double check my RCBS 1500 chargemaster still with an old fashioned balance beam scale. It's rare to make one error, and rarer still to make the exact same error twice in a row on two different types of equipment. As gear said, it's always nice to double check when you're playing with explosives - especially when they get held in your hands, or are close to your face.



- Bullwolf

[smokeywolf]

I weigh my finished cartridges on the bigger Ohaus 3100 scale. This gives me a final indicator of a possible double or over charge.

smokeywolf

[captaint]

Glad you got away with one, Boomer. My eyesight is such that I have to look, with eyeglasses on, at my RCBS beam scale with a magnifying glass when I think I have it set. I have the scale mounted eye high when standing. I really use it only for checking & setting charges. Then I use the Uniflow. Keep checking, folks. Mike

[MrWolf]

I use a medical grade digital for the same reasons that I just can't see the smaller numbers anymore.

[jeepyj]

Its interesting. I know that there are a lot of BE powder lovers out there and personally I like its accuracy however the exact reason I don't use it anymore is its so hard to look into the rack and see if one is double charged because it is such a small amount to begin with. (I use a single stage press) Many years ago I went to Unique because easier to see the level when I fill the rack and still retain accuracy.
Jeepyj

[hickfu]

I know a lot of people dont like the digital scales but I use one along with my 505 beam scale.... I check EVERY charge no matter what Im loading for, Yes it is slow going when trying to do a bunch of 9mm but I still load them 1 at a time with a scoop to the digital scale and then over to the beam scale to double check and then into the case. Im disabled and have all the time in the world so I go slow... Im still worried about overcharging something and I hope I always will!

Doc

[smokeywolf]

I know a lot of people dont like the digital scales but I use one along with my 505 beam scale.... I check EVERY charge no matter what Im loading for, Yes it is slow going when trying to do a bunch of 9mm but I still load them 1 at a time with a scoop to the digital scale and then over to the beam scale to double check and then into the case. Im disabled and have all the time in the world so I go slow... Im still worried about overcharging something and I hope I always will!

Doc

I'm with you!

I weigh 90 to 100% of my charges on an old Redding oil damped beam scale. I then do the visual check in the loading block. Finished cartridges are then weighed for a final check. My own suspicious nature causes me to then play back, in my mind, all my motions and steps. My compulsion to maintain my record of no undetected mistakes, will then on occasion, prompt me to reject a cartridge, based on nothing other than an uneasy feeling.

My wife and children shoot my handloads. I'm never in a hurry and I never tolerate distractions.

Reloading carries with it a great responsibility. If anyone, family or not, was ever maimed or killed as a result of my mistake, God might forgive me, but I know I never would.

smokeywolf

[dbarnhart]

Why not use an RCBS lockout die? I use one. If the charge is half a grain over or under it locks the press up and gets your attention.

[hickfu]

Amen Smokeywolf, I never would and never could forgive myself if anything ever happened to someone using my reloads.....


Doc

[9.3X62AL]

Just goes to show;
1) double and triple check.
2) when your gut is telling you something, listen. Call it feral instinct or whatever.
Really glad you came out of it ok and your rifle was fine.
An excellent reminder to us all.

AND HOW! I'm very happy that no injuries or damage resulted from this course of events.

[kawasakifreak77]

Good thing that was in a lever gun!

I've done the same, pushing the limits of 300blk when I started with the caliber. Loaded a few so hot the first one literally fused the primer in the pocket. It cannot be removed. I had to pry the case out out of the bolt & that case sits on my bench as a reminder now.

[Pilgrim]

Different strokes, and all that. For rifle loads I use a Lyman powder dispenser (DPS II) which weighs out every charge. There is a double check as you have to enter the powder charge first, and then the machine weighs out and displays each and every charge as you go. All of these are loaded on a rockchucker. For pistol I use a P-W 375 which is a five station tool. Sorta like a turret tool, but "inline". I dispense pistol powder using an RCBS Little Dandy powder dispenser. This also provides a double check process. First you look up the rotor needed for the powder and load desired. Dispense a half dozen loads and dump it back into the powder measure to settle the powder. Next dump the first "real" load and weigh that load on a digital scale. It nearly always weighs a bit less than that desired (1/2 gr. or so). If it doesn't, something is wrong and it's time to stop and sort things out. In addition, since the powder chamber limits the powder dropped, the only way to get a double charge is to go to sleep while you are loading and lose track of the times you've cycled the rotor. That can happen, but it's so easy and so fast to pull the case out of the shell holder and look in the case, a double charge is nearly inexcusable.
The biggest risk is powder hangup, and that goes away as it always dumps the remainder of the load onto the press surface before you can get another case sized, primed, and expanded. Actually, it usually dumps while you are seating the boolit. Pain in the butt to clean off the loader "deck" and to pull the boolit and recharge the case, but better than a bloop load. Again it is nearly impossible to get a normal load plus "hangup" into a case. I worry about over charges when using any fast powder so I pretty much am alert for anything out of the ordinary.
FWIW... Pilgrim.

[shooterbob]

Back when I had a gun shop. I was loading my own stuff and was helping customers. I was loading a 300h&h and I took my loads to the range and we were shooting and talking. I leaned down and Click! I thought what the heck....I pulled the trigger on an empty. I ejected it and.loaded another. I almost touched the trigger, when it dawned on me...click with earmuffs on! I had primed and seated with no powder. And the next round pushed the bullet into the case. I had barely felt a touch. 200 grn bullet stuck in. I tapped it out and made it into a keychain, to always think about loads.

[blikseme300]

When I go hunting for brass on the police range I see an alarming amount of 9mm that was blown out in a .40 chamber like that, and complete .380 cartridges that I can only assume get mixed in with 9mm and were tossed when they failed to function.

I have seen a similar pattern at one of the indoor ranges I visit from time to time to collect brass. I have had a personal experience as well where I had a brain fart and used a 9mm magazine in the .40 pistol. It was a pair of Stoeger Cougar pistols at the range and the mags fit each other. The dust puff about 50' out and the lack of cycling alerted me that something was out of whack.

The lesson I learned once again is to always pay attention. Safety is no accident.