Lube Help & Muzzle Loading

[scrat]

Ok i bought a lee R.E.A.L mold for my 50 cal. Going through my Lee reloading manual. Shows that you can use LLA to lube bullets for muzzle loading. HOWEVER when i got my mold yesterday i opened it up. AND for the heck of things i actually read the paper. NICE. the paper says to use muzzle loading lube on the bullet or shortening like crisco. SO my question. I have always had pretty good luck with lee liquid alox in center fire rifles and handguns. Has anyone used it for muzzle loading if so give me the feedback. Id love to start casting and lubing some bullets to get ready for the weekend. If anything i was thinking of double lubing the bullets. Cast on wednesday after work. Then tumble lube them. Then Tumble lube them on Thursday again. Then friday pack up everything so i can go out shooting on saturday. orrrrr

do i have to go find some lube quick.

This is going to be used in a 50 cal muzzleloader. Inline CVA Buckhorn

[garandsrus]

Scrat,

LLA is supposed to be bad ju ju for a muzzle loader. I have never tried it since other folks reported that it is really a pain to get the fowling out.

I have of course tried it with smokeless and it works fine.

John

[scrat]

Great then what would be a good lube to use on muzzle loading bullets.

What about johnson paste wax. has anyone tried that

[Loudenboomer]

TC Bore Butter is the best store bought lube I've used. It keeps the leading down and the fowling soft. Costs a few bucks but comes in a user friendly squeze tube. Old timers used bear tallow. Lard and bees wax combos with softening compounds work well too If your into the mixing thing.

[ktw]

Plain Crisco or Bore Butter of you want something quick and easy.

A mix of beeswax and olive oil is also good.

-ktw

[Topper]

I'm sure there are other lubes you can make, some probably better, but this is what I use for REALS & Improved Minies in 45cal. with very good results.

"1995 Lube" - sourced from Paul Matthews

2 parts yellow beeswax
1 part Pure Neatsfoot Oil
1 part Murphy’s Oil Soap

(easy to make in 8-oz batches)

1) Melt 4 oz of beeswax in the microwave. Usually 6-8 minutes is about the right time.
2) Stir in 2 oz of Neatsfoot oil when beeswax is melted. Stir until the mixture is lumpfree.
3) Stir in 2 oz of Murphy’s Oil Soap, stirring continuously as the soap is added. Again, mix until there are no lumps.
4) Pour into storage containers as soon as batch is well mixed.

Very soft and sticky. Will not melt in the sun, but works well in the cold, too. NOT suitable for pan lubing.

[44man]

Beware the squeeze tube in cold weather! [smilie=1: Get the tube warm and put it in a little jar or you will have to drive your truck on the tube to get any out. :mrgreen:

[RBak]

Scrat,

LLA is supposed to be bad ju ju for a muzzle loader. I have never tried it since other folks reported that it is really a pain to get the fowling out.

I have of course tried it with smokeless and it works fine.

John

Like many others, I have read this, and heard this, since Lee came out with the stuff.
And, I'm sure John is not the only one who has ever heard the horor stories.
This post is not directed toward him, or anyone else. It's just the way I see things.

Now, I am no chemist, or chemical engineer, or anything....other than your average old shooter trying to still have a little fun with my guns.
I am nearly 70 years old, and I have been doing this for a pretty good while now.

And, what I'm going to say is based on my own experience, so keep in mind YMMV.

Not too many years back, I gave LLA a try in my muzzleloaders.

In fact, I have tried it in several of my muzzleloaders, several different times, with several different boolit styles, and for the life of me, I have never seen anything that would lead me to think it was actually bad for the rifles, or exceptionally hard to clean up after shooting, or any of the things I have read and heard.
I suspect I was disappointed that none of the stuff I have read actually happened.

Every gun I have used it in has cleaned up just fine, no problems whatsoever, none of the barrels have rusted and fell off, and quite honestly, I suspect I am not astute enough to see any difference in LLA , Crisco, Natural 1000, Bore Butter, homemade bees-wax based lubes, or any type lube for that matter in the actual shooting / accuracy department....except, LLA was probably a bit less messy handling the boolit when loading.

Now, having said that, I have to say that LLA is quite likely not the best lube for muzzleloaders, all these folks can't be completely wrong.
But, I don't think for a second that anything bad is going to happen if you do try it. Or even if you decide to try it, and stick with it.

In fact, I have a friend that casts a little bit and uses only LLA for his muzzleloaders. He takes a deer every year, and an elk every other year, and shoots probably 4 to 5 hundred shots every year in practice....and, he has done this for the past fifteen years that I have known him.

I know this because I shoot a lot with him on weekends.

The good part of this is nobody has ever told Jerry that LLA is a bad thing, and since he never has time to get on the Internet and read how things should be done, he just does it his way.....and it works great for him.

Perhaps we could all learn a little something from him.

Russ...

[cabezaverde]

My son shoots a Winchester X-150 inline and the 370 Maxi ball with American Pioneer Powder which I think recommends no lube because of contamination issues. We tumble lube the Maxi's in LLA (2 coats), and let them dry well. No Bore Butter, Crisco, etc, just the Liquid Alox.

He is very happy with this set up and gets exceptional accuracy. Killed 2 deer this year with that gun and load, clean up is a snap because of the powder. No leading.

I would say try it and see with your gun.

[beleg2]

Hi,
Im very happy with Bore Butter but I would like to try LLA.
My only concern is how many bullets can you shoot using LLA?
Have you to clean between shot or can you shoot a string without cleaning?
Thanks
Martin

I would preffer LLA to BB for handling cleaness.

[scrat]

What i can say with LLA. when i shoot it for my centerfires.

I try to cast way ahead of time. If im in a desperate hurry i do what can get me in trouble. If not then i cast a head of time. This month i will cast maybe 1000 .308 170grn bullets. I will tumble lube them all and let them dry naturally. Then tomorrow i will tumble lube them again. Then i will put them in a box after about 24 hours and put them away. Next month i will take them out to use them and the stickyness is usually almost about gone. Much easier to deal with almost like a factory coated bullet.

Now if im in a hurry and the wife is not home. I will tumble lube them. Then put them in the oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes. Then take them out and air out the house.

Waiting a month is the best thing to do. cast a head of time the bullets will be a lot less sticky. Now CRISCO. i can see it now i will have to take a couple of rags with me to and maybe some hand cleaner as that seems to be pretty messy of a job.

Any how i guess i will try 10 rounds of LLA check the barrel clean it up then try some crisco. Just dont know seems like crisco would be sticking to the powder unless i use a fiber wad over the powder.

[Blammer]

I like natural lube 1000 plus, and I have had good luck with crisco melted with some beeswax to make it a bit stiffer.

I really don't lube my REAL bullets too much as I't kinda hard to get the lube on them. They are great plinkers for me. I get good accuracy with them. I think I'm shooting the short ones, at 250grs.

[Ohio Rusty]

Any lube that is a non-petrolium product and is thick will work well with muzzleloaders. Non-traditional lubes would encompass any you can buy across the counter. Traditional lubes are things like bear grease or other animal tallows will work as a lube for a muzzleloading conical bullet or patched round ball. There is nothing wrong with T/C's Bore Butter or CVA's Slick Lube. You can also make your own or just get a can of crisco as someone else suggested. I know a fellow that really likes olive oil and beewswax together. He adds more oil for winter and more wax for summer so it's less runny.
Ohio Rusty

[Wayne Smith]

All of the information I have read about petroleum lubes comes from the BPCR folks. They are shooting long bullets using a relatively large amount of lube perhaps at higher velocity than typical from MLs. I'm not sure that the experience would transfer, but I'd be careful. Those guys have put a lot of lead down range.

[jonk]

The difference is that if you don't clean after each and every shot, the LLA quickly hardens and does nothing to soften fouling, meaning that it is very hard to seat the bullet; whereas Crisco, Bore butter, beeswax/olive oil mix, etc., DO soften fouling and lets you shoot a number of shots before you have to clean. So it depends on your shooting habbits. Me I'm a lazy bugger- anything I can do to slow the need to scrub helps.

That said I would think that a pre-mixed amount of LLA and crisco, for instance, might work fine.

[MT Gianni]

Hi,
Im very happy with Bore Butter but I would like to try LLA.
My only concern is how many bullets can you shoot using LLA?
Have you to clean between shot or can you shoot a string without cleaning?
Thanks
Martin

I would preffer LLA to BB for handling cleaness.

Martin, you may be able to make a lube similar to Crisco from the rind of Mata-hombre or such. It is a solid vegetable oil base thinner than lard but not an oil. i think any such would do for a muzzleloader but not for the volumes shot in cartridge loading. Gianni

[KCSO]

I shoot traditional rifles only and my favorite lube is now bear oil. This was also Ned roberts lube when he could not get sperm oil. I started many years ago with sperm oil and was spoiled. For bullets I use bear oil and bees wax and this will letr me shoot up to 17 rounds from a b/p gun with no cleaning and excellent accuracy. Bear oil is kinda hard to get unless you know a bear hunter and i have been lucky in that, but it doesn't spoil fast and a gallon will last a long time. If you can't get a bear then try sheeps tallow (Old Zip) as that will work well also.

[Freightman]

I guess that no lube would be in order with APP as there is a man who is going for 10,000 shots with no cleaning at all with the APP. Here is the link http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/nocleaning.html