Quick and dirty .38 special

[chickenmcnasty]

Hey all,

I'm a novice caster. I've been doing .490 roundball, lee real and minie ball for my muzzleloaders. As such, I have been using pure lead to do this.
Enter the gp100 .357 revolver that is on the way. I have a friend that has all reloading equipment and .38 special dies. He does not cast bullets.
I'm wondering if there is a cheap and easy way to mix an alloy without throwing down money on a hardness tester. Is it possible to weigh everything and add tin/antimony to get "in the neighborhood" without hardness testing?
Also, is sizing the bullets necessary? I would appreciate any guidance I can get. Thank you

[fecmech]

Don't get too rapped around the axle over hardness testers. I've managed to cast a little over 40 years without one, casting for magnum pistols and a smattering of rifles. The .38/.357 is an excellent place to start, jump in and start swimming.

[Idz]

I use soft range scrap in my S&W model10 38 spl for plinking loads with no problem. I think the LASC website will give you lots of alloy recipes if you want to go up to 357 velocities.

[MUSTANG]

ChickenmcNasty:

I would recommend using 38 Special brass cases and either a 148 wad cutter or 158 grn semi-wad cutter with 2.5 to 3 grs of Bullseye or Red Dot powder. Following two links provide sample Lee molds for these two. Hodgdon Clays, Titegroup, W-231, and 700-X are other powders; but you need to look up load data for them. This would work well for you since you all ready have the 38 special dies. In my muiltiple 357's I routinely use 38 Special brass, and on rare occasions 357 brass and loads.


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/623052/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-358-148-wc-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-148-grain-wadcutter

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/164178/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl358-158-swc-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-158-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter

For sizing you might try the Lee Sizing Lube and Die set in .358:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/685087/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-358-diameter?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[runfiverun]

a couple of way's to mix your soft lead without even breaking a sweat.
lino-type or super hard from roto-metals are the easiest and you can just weigh out the material then melt it together in your casting pot.

[dubber123]

If you can score some clip on wheelweights, (many casters will trade you for some of your pure lead), and mix the WW 50/50 with your pure it makes a very usable alloy for many different applications.

[roberts1]

a couple of way's to mix your soft lead without even breaking a sweat.
lino-type or super hard from roto-metals are the easiest and you can just weigh out the material then melt it together in your casting pot.

Easiest way i can think of is just buy some range scrap ingots here in the swappin and sellin section for about a buck a pound. Theyll work just fine for what you want. Sellers usually know the hardness if youre interested. A lee 158 grain swc mould and tumble lube for simplicity. I use them in 357 and 38 for target shooting.

[roberts1]

derf didnt mean to add the quote!

[NSP64]

You can add some magnum shot to the pure to get a harder alloy.
Get some ww lead in the swappin section then water drop to get to the harder allows.

Load it in 357 loads in 38 brass ONLY if you do not know anyone that has a 38.(you don't want them to shoot 357 loaded 38 brass in their 38)

[chickenmcnasty]

ChickenmcNasty:

I would recommend using 38 Special brass cases and either a 148 wad cutter or 158 grn semi-wad cutter with 2.5 to 3 grs of Bullseye or Red Dot powder. Following two links provide sample Lee molds for these two. Hodgdon Clays, Titegroup, W-231, and 700-X are other powders; but you need to look up load data for them. This would work well for you since you all ready have the 38 special dies. In my muiltiple 357's I routinely use 38 Special brass, and on rare occasions 357 brass and loads.


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/623052/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-358-148-wc-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-148-grain-wadcutter

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/164178/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl358-158-swc-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-158-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter

For sizing you might try the Lee Sizing Lube and Die set in .358:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/685087/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-358-diameter?cm_vc=ProductFinding

What is the difference between those 2 molds?
Is sizing necessary? I'm really just looking for some practice rounds. Accuracy is an afterthought.

[DLCTEX]

Whether sizing is necessary is dependent on your mould and what your gun wants. Many moulds will drop close enough to size that you can shoot them as cast. Lee's tumble lube moulds are made to shoot as cast and tumble lubing is simple to do. I would recommend 45/45/10 for the magnum. that's 45% alox/45%Johnson's paste wax/ 10% mineral spirits. Do a search for how to prepare it properly. Any of the lube groove boolits can be tumble lubed also.Lee makes a push through sizer that is inexpensive and works in a reloading press. I would suggest a .359 sizer. You will need to flare the case mouth to seat boolits without damage.

[lwknight]

If you plan to use 38spl loads just size them 1/1000 over the slug size and never worry about hardness or softness. Pure lead bullets work great and the commercial 15 bnh bullets work just as good. After all the famed FBI 38 bullets were pure lead 158 grain HP

And then the .357 loads need to be harder depending on how hot you load them.

[bangerjim]

If you DO want to get a SWAG on hardness without spending $80-200, do a search on here for using artist pencils to test hardness. The go out and buy a set for $10-15!

Not as accurate or fast as a Cabine tester like I use, but will get you in the ballpark.

bangerjim

[earplug]

size and bore diameter combined with powder burning rate have been more important to me then alloy.
After your ears and hand get tired of the pain of a steady diet of magnum loads your casting and loading will get easier.

[Fishman]

You can buy the 45-45-10 tumble lube from white label lube who is a sponsor here. Tumble lubing unsized boolits dropping .358 to .361 in diameter should work just fine for .38 special plinking. At least it did for me saturday. :)

[Char-Gar]

Hey all,

I'm a novice caster. I've been doing .490 roundball, lee real and minie ball for my muzzleloaders. As such, I have been using pure lead to do this.
Enter the gp100 .357 revolver that is on the way. I have a friend that has all reloading equipment and .38 special dies. He does not cast bullets.
I'm wondering if there is a cheap and easy way to mix an alloy without throwing down money on a hardness tester. Is it possible to weigh everything and add tin/antimony to get "in the neighborhood" without hardness testing?
Also, is sizing the bullets necessary? I would appreciate any guidance I can get. Thank you

Hardness testers are not necessary. Good alloy can be mixed by weight.

I cast bullet for 35 years before I bought a hardness tester (SAECO), but I only use it to determine hardness of unknown scrap lead.

I have cast bullets for 55 years without a lead thermometer or a lube sizer heater.

When I started casting none of the above items were available and thereby not needed. Over the years many gizmos have been introduced to the market and caster are now convinced they need such things, which they don't. Another success for the marketing people. There are a number of gizmos that are fun to play with and every once in a while make life a little easier, but necessary..hardly!

[MUSTANG]

Chicken McNasty:


Below is a pic of the two boolits (Near Scale) beside a 38 special case. The approximate seating position for each is relational to their placement in the picture. As you can see, in additional to added weight, the Semi-Wadcutter sits with a longer nose than the wad cutter. The wadcutter provides nice clean circular holes on a target, with the Semi-Wadcutter cutting a slightly less perfect hole, but better than a more rounded nose would. It is easier to place a Semi-Wad cutter into revolver cylinders than a wadcutter, but after you chamber a few, no big deal on the wadcutters.

100263

Depending on finances, the 148 Wadcutter can be a better choice for frugal shooters as you can cast about 6% more 148 Wadcutter boolits compared to 158 grain Semi-Wadcutters using the same amount of lead. Personally, I prefer the 148 Wadcutter because it makes holes easier to see from the firing line with an inexpensive set of binoculars from the 25 Yard Line.

Both will require the mouth be belled to avoid shaving lead from the sides. A Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die would be a good purchase for you to fulfill this need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140461/lee-universal-neck-expanding-die

[mdi]

A Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition will tell you nearly everything needed to cast, load, and shoot lead bullets (the 3rd in much better for a new caster than the 4th Edition, unless you're into black powder cartridge shooting). From my handbook; Lyman #2 alloy (a good all around alloy), 9 pounds of wheel weights + 1 lb. of 50/50 solder = 10 lbs. #2 alloy. Or 4 lbs. linotype + 1 lb. 50/50 solder + 5 lbs. pure lead = 10 lbs. #2. Elmer Kieth often used 16-1 alloy (94% pure and 6% tin).

Since wheel weights became evil demons trying to get into our water supply, I haven't found many to use for bullets so I purchase range lead and if needed I'll drop a bit of linotype in it for extra hardness (don't get into the "harder is better" myth). I recently got a Lee hardness tester and began testing samples of all my alloys. I tried the "formula" for BHN vs. chamber pressure, but it didn't work for me. I have returned to casting approximate wheel weight and mystery (range lead) alloy. If the bullets fit the gun properly, ain't no leading...

[Char-Gar]

Alloy hardness is not near the bug-a-boo many think. Any given alloy will give good results over a fairly wide pressure range. There are limits, but the latitude is quite wide. Most often softer is better.

When I started casting in the late 50's I fell in with a bunch of older men who had been casting and shooting for 30 to 50 years at that time. They had a sure fire hardness tester. They smacked two ingots together and if they rang it was rifle alloy and if they went "thud" is was handgun alloy. That might sound a little comical today, but it worked far better than you would suppose.

Bullet casters and shooters these days, seem to way over think the activity. It is neither arcane science nor some form of magic. There are some basic principals and guidelines that if followed will give good results every time. Those principals and guidelines are fewer than most folks think. Proper bullet fit is king and the others fall in line below it. All the rest won't cure bad bullet fit and proper bullet fit can tolerate quite a latitude in the other areas.

[lwknight]

Bullet casters and shooters these days, seem to way over think the activity. It is neither arcane science nor some form of magic. There are some basic principals and guidelines that if followed will give good results every time.
Now that's what I'm talkin about.

[chickenmcnasty]

A Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition will tell you nearly everything needed to cast, load, and shoot lead bullets (the 3rd in much better for a new caster than the 4th Edition, unless you're into black powder cartridge shooting). From my handbook; Lyman #2 alloy (a good all around alloy), 9 pounds of wheel weights + 1 lb. of 50/50 solder = 10 lbs. #2 alloy. Or 4 lbs. linotype + 1 lb. 50/50 solder + 5 lbs. pure lead = 10 lbs. #2. Elmer Kieth often used 16-1 alloy (94% pure and 6%

I know I can get tin easily, but I'm not sure about Linotype. The 16-1 alloy sounds like it would be easily accomplished. Is leading not an issue? It seems it would be fairly soft.

[chickenmcnasty]

Now that's what I'm talkin about.

I'm sure I'm probably in the overthinking group. It's just that initial fear of screwing something up and hurting the gun that keeps me obsessing about it.

[chickenmcnasty]

Alloy hardness is not near the bug-a-boo many think. Any given alloy will give good results over a fairly wide pressure range. There are limits, but the latitude is quite wide. Most often softer is better.

When I started casting in the late 50's I fell in with a bunch of older men who had been casting and shooting for 30 to 50 years at that time. They had a sure fire hardness tester. They smacked two ingots together and if they rang it was rifle alloy and if they went "thud" is was handgun alloy. That might sound a little comical today, but it worked far better than you would suppose.

Bullet casters and shooters these days, seem to way over think the activity. It is neither arcane science nor some form of magic. There are some basic principals and guidelines that if followed will give good results every time. Those principals and guidelines are fewer than most folks think. Proper bullet fit is king and the others fall in line below it. All the rest won't cure bad bullet fit and proper bullet fit can tolerate quite a latitude in the other areas.

With that being said, should I just pick up the mold and a sizer and stop worrying so much?

[Digital Dan]

That pretty much covers it. Everything you need has been laid out....run with it. Mostly it's common sense, not rocket surgery.

Later on when you've become hopelessly addicted, have dozens of guns, tons of lead and more gilhickeys than any two pawn shops....this is NOT the place to visit for support or consolation.

[Char-Gar]

With that being said, should I just pick up the mold and a sizer and stop worrying so much?

Yes that sounds good.

[Char-Gar]

I know I can get tin easily, but I'm not sure about Linotype. The 16-1 alloy sounds like it would be easily accomplished. Is leading not an issue? It seems it would be fairly soft.

16-1 is what Elmer Keith used and recommended for full snort 44Magnum loads and he called his bullets "hard cast".

[btroj]

With that being said, should I just pick up the mold and a sizer and stop worrying so much?

That is what every new caster should do.

Stop over thinking it and start doing it. Learn from experience. Cast, load, shoot. Repeat. A bunch. You will learn much this way.

[Char-Gar]

That is what every new caster should do.

Stop over thinking it and start doing it. Learn from experience. Cast, load, shoot. Repeat. A bunch. You will learn much this way.

Yes, we learn from our mistakes. No mistakes..no learning. I really don't understand folks being afraid to make mistakes and wanting to get everything perfect before the will try something. Nobody would ever learn to ride a bicycle with that thinking. I find that totally alien.

[btroj]

Mistakes aren't bad, they tell us what didn't work.

My opinion is that we learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than we do a computer bench.

Why do people. Expect to learn without doing the homework? Heck, isn't shooting what this is all about? People want to read about it but not do it?

Guys, get off the computer and go shoot! A bunch. It is fun and it is educational.

[bedbugbilly]

For my 38s, I cast with whatever I have - sometimes fairly pure lead and sometimes range lead - size 'em to .358 - tumble lube 'em in Alox/paste wax (even conventional lube groove bullets). I'm casting WC, SWC and RN - put them over Bulls Eye and "have at it". Never had a problem with leading in any of my 7 38s/357. Either brass or nickel tubes will work just fine - personally, I prefer nickel - they're "prettier". As mentioned . . don't "over think" it. Just jump in and get your feet wet . . you'll discover over time what "works for you". Just be careful with your load data . . pay attention to "Minimum" and "Maximum" data - start low and work up. I don't load "hot" as I'm pretty much a "plinker". To me, loading "less" means you can load "more" as over time, the powder will last longer . . but then I'm old and cheap! If your friend reloads, he'll help you out and get you started right . . just dive in and enjoy!

[MUSTANG]

ChickenMcNasty:

As said repeatedly here; get started and go shooting. At your leisure, go read this article for background. Do not get lost in the options, Cost effective & Quality Range time should be your goal.


http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_11_Wadcutter.htm

[Silverboolit]

To eassily see if your alloy is 'hard' or 'soft' you can compare it to a known alloy. If you can get some commercial bollits with a known hardness it is simple. Just put the known one and your unknowen one in a bench vise, nose to nose, and squeezethe together. If your bollit is softer than the known, it will be shorter . The hard one will deform less than the soft alloy. I have used this before and it works pretty well.

Lee makes a 105 SWC that is a hoot to shoot and saves lead also!!