Remember to remove your cleaning rod before firing!

[Artful]

OOPS....:(

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/sparky0007/650x487xKaboom2_zps03c4ff88jpgpagespeedicCYXbYEBDH l_zpsdc9ca322.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/sparky0007/media/650x487xKaboom2_zps03c4ff88jpgpagespeedicCYXbYEBDH l_zpsdc9ca322.jpg.html)

You might well think that the catastrophic destruction of firearms caused by shooters leaving their cleaning rods inside their guns was a rare occurrence, but you would be wrong. It happens far to often. These photos show what happens when a cleaning rod is left in a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle. A member of the SnipersHide forum reported that this KABOOM happened two benches down from him at the range. The shooter only sustained minor injuries. Two holes were punched in roof and pieces of the rifle were scattered around the range.
- See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/19/338-lapua-magnum-kaboom/#sthash.PeUrdy2r.dpuf

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/19/338-lapua-magnum-kaboom/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/650x487xKaboom6_zpsead0dca9.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uBTWr _Y7qY.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/650x487xkaboom5_zps4b8b9842.jpg.pagespeed.ic.m8veN h0Nuh.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/650x487xKaboom7_zps615f5d07.jpg.pagespeed.ic._FSd_ 9Q1qD.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/650x487xKaboom3_zps0ec90044.jpg.pagespeed.ic.kOqUk n8ozg.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/650x487xkaboom4_zps6a8c4489.jpg.pagespeed.ic.OEepl pFtnE.jpg

[btroj]

Holy cow! Hope nobody was hurt. That is a very expensive lesson.

[MrWolf]

Damn. Thanks for a visual reinforcement of what a moment of carelessness can cause.

[btroj]

I have to ask- why was a cleaning rod left in the bore at any time?

[LIMPINGJ]

Ouch!

[fatnhappy]

I'm glad no one was hurt. Having said that, anyone too stupid to clean a bolt action from the breech doesn't deserve such a fine rifle.

[shooter2]

Why? Because people screw up now and then.

A local BR shooter used drop in weights to extract the brass. He forgot to remove the weight one time and lost his right eye and suffered other injuries. He was/is a top BR shooter and had been shooting for years. You only need to F… up once.

[oldred]

You only need to F… up once.


You got that right, in this sport once is plenty!!!!!!

[JSnover]

That absolutely sucks. If he taken one more look, or if someone at the next bench had just glanced over and said "hey!" this wouldn't have happened.

[JSnover]

I'm glad no one was hurt. Having said that, anyone too stupid to clean a bolt action from the breech doesn't deserve such a fine rifle.

Ok, but he didn't deserve to have it blown up in his face, did he? Maybe there should be a questionnaire to fill out before the dealer will let you buy it.

[Bullshop Junior]

All that brass laying on the ground is what caught my attention...

[Artful]

All that brass laying on the ground is what caught my attention...

Many ranges have taken to having rules that say if it hits the ground it belongs to the range.
Another source of income for them.

either that or it's telling us your a brass hoe :kidding:

[btroj]

I'm a brass hoe and proud of it. Lead too.

[Dale in Louisiana]

I've seen it done with a couple of sections of rammer staff from a tank's 105mm gun. No 'splodey. Lots of red faces.

dale in Louisiana
(old tanker)

[lreed]

Clearly,a design flaw! Do you suppose he will litigate?

[fatnhappy]

Ok, but he didn't deserve to have it blown up in his face, did he? Maybe there should be a questionnaire to fill out before the dealer will let you buy it.

There is, but filling out the ATF-4473 doesn't qualify him for mensa.

This isn't a ML or a garand, it's a bolt action which is most easily cleaned from the breech. I'm not buying the story. Somehow the cleaning rod wasn't fully ejected during the detonation? The cleaning rod portion that is sticking out isn't bent at all (not even during the fall from the bench), but the breech end of the heat treated forged steel barrel is? My BS meter is pegged.

[nicholst55]

The same applies to boresighters; remove before firing! I've got a 25mm Auto Gun barrel sitting in the Arms Room that's about 3 feet short because a boresight was left in place when they fired...

[roysha]

I have to ask- why was a cleaning rod left in the bore at any time?

I truly have no idea why this individual did what he did but on really hot days I will insert a brass rod into the bore to act as a heat sink to cool the barrel after a string so I can maintain a relative standard barrel temp for accuracy testing. However, to preclude forgetting it, I remove the bolt and extend the rod out the rear of the receiver plus I have a 6" or so paper disc that the rod has pierced in the center at the muzzle end so even if I could get the bolt in without remembering the heat sink, I can't see anything because of the paper disc blocking the scope.

Perhaps he was using the cleaning rod as a heat sink. The 338 Lapau is a rather hot cartridge. Then again, perhaps Darwinism was trying to correct an error and didn't quite succeed :wink:.

[btroj]

I just stand the rifle up in a rack and let the heat in the barrel draw air from the open breech. Think chimney.

[Artful]

Somehow the cleaning rod wasn't fully ejected during the detonation? The cleaning rod portion that is sticking out isn't bent at all (not even during the fall from the bench), but the breech end of the heat treated forged steel barrel is? My BS meter is pegged.

Check your meter -
Rod is bent at the muzzle
(check out second picture carefully, not in line with bore)
and
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bore-obstructions-cause-nasty-accidents/
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/barrelstuck.jpg
depending upon conditions it is known that the rod will upset
and stick in the bore.

Now every muzzle loader I ever saw with the ramrod left in upon firing
did eject the rod either whole or in pieces.

[starmac]

I'm glad the guy next to him wasn't hurt.
Chances are he will never make this mistake again.

[snuffy]

I'm glad no one was hurt. Having said that, anyone too stupid to clean a bolt action from the breech doesn't deserve such a fine rifle.

You meant to say muzzle--right?

I'll go one further, clean from the breech AND use a bore guide. Cleaning rod contact with the rifling in front of the throat is almost as bad as it wearing the rifling at the crown.

[fatnhappy]

You meant to say muzzle--right?

I'll go one further, clean from the breech AND use a bore guide. Cleaning rod contact with the rifling in front of the throat is almost as bad as it wearing the rifling at the crown.

actually I omitted the word "not" .....not to clean....

[fatnhappy]

Check your meter -
Rod is bent at the muzzle
(check out second picture carefully, not in line with bore)
and
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bore-obstructions-cause-nasty-accidents/
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/barrelstuck.jpg
depending upon conditions it is known that the rod will upset
and stick in the bore.

Now every muzzle loader I ever saw with the ramrod left in upon firing
did eject the rod either whole in pieces.


Your photos from a second mensa candidate that went above and beyond for a darwin award have nothing whatsoever to do with the original post. Your thesis is the cleaning rod was obturated to the bore?

Then how did 3/4 of the rod eject the bore? How is it the rod managed to move 3/4 of the way down the bore then magically arrest? It moved, therefore it wasn't obturated to the bore. It should have cleared the muzzle with the energy involved.

My BS meter is still pegged.
Strange things happen though, so maybe he's just a moron not a lying moron.

The shooter must have cleaned his rifle from the muzzle. Dumb
to clean his rifle on the range from the muzzle would have required he step off the firing line to clean it or stand in front of the bench.
cleaning in front of the bench on a live line is dumb (and prohibited at every range I know of)
managing to clean off the line, transport the rifle back to the line, chamber a round and not notice the rod was still in the barrel? dumb. .......and I'm incredulous.

I'm smelling BS

[btroj]

That cleaning rod also has no handle on it. Weird. Just weird.

[Artful]

Your photos from a second mensa candidate that went above and beyond for a darwin award have nothing whatsoever to do with the original post. Your thesis is the cleaning rod was obturated to the bore?

Then how did 3/4 of the rod eject the bore? How is it the rod managed to move 3/4 of the way down the bore then magically arrest? It moved, therefore it wasn't obturated to the bore. It should have cleared the muzzle with the energy involved.
1) it appears to be a brass rod, yes my theory is it did expand when the bullet hit it.
2) I don't see any documentation of how long the rod was so I doubt 3/4 of the rod ejected - I have some short and 1 very long rod
3) I don't see how you find evidence of it moving



My BS meter is still pegged.
Strange things happen though, so maybe he's just a moron not a lying moron.

The shooter must have cleaned his rifle from the muzzle. Dumb
to clean his rifle on the range from the muzzle would have required he step off the firing line to clean it or stand in front of the bench.

cleaning in front of the bench on a live line is dumb (and prohibited at every range I know of)
managing to clean off the line, transport the rifle back to the line, chamber a round and not notice the rod was still in the barrel? dumb. .......and I'm incredulous.

I'm smelling BS

I agree - whole thing is something dumb but I can dig up more pictures of dumb happening - the interweb is full of 'em.

I also wonder about no evidence of any handle on the rod
- it's almost like it was a brass rod used to clear a stuck bullet
(squib or pulled & stuck in rifling when didn't fire) then forgotten in place...

[btroj]

Or was that rod used to see where an obstruction was in the bore? In other Wordsworth as that rod in the bore on firing or was it inserted later?

[fouronesix]

Ditto. It's fairly common for bore obstructions to remain in the bore after firing. Hard to tell in the OP pics if the rod stayed in the bore after firing or was put back in for the pics, but I wouldn't doubt it stayed in the bore after the kaboom.

[fatnhappy]

measurement of photo #1 suggest the amount of cleaning rod (which is the suggested obstruction per the hyper linked article) appears 78% as long as the barrel. Let's just guess the barrel is 28" long (as suggested by other objects in the photo used for reference).

If the cleaning rod is as long as the barrel it was only inserted 6" from the muzzle, 4 of which are muzzle brake then only 2" were in the bore. If it's 4" longer was 6" into the bore and 18" from the bullet. It remained in place?
That's the stationary theory?


Otherwise the cleaning rod moved. An object in motion wants to stay in motion. I'm assuming there were at least a hundred thousand reasons PSI it would remain in motion.
It moved or it didn't move. those are the options.

I'm suggesting it's a staged photo for illustrative value, and the handle remains at whatever location it really came to rest.

That aside:
Let's assume the narrative is absolutely factual, this guy still jeopardized the safety of himself and others at the range by a series of negligent acts.
Sorry if I'm unsympathetic at the loss of his rifle. Those around him might be better off until he aquatints himself with safer habits.

[Hogtamer]

I'll give $25 for the scope!

[tomme boy]

The Savage rifles in 338 Lapua are known for having a bad chamber. I bet he was knocking a case out of the chamber and forgot the rod. Even though it was his fault, I would be after Savage because of the faulty rifle.

[Artful]

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/231407-kaboom-manatee-today.html


Originally Posted by Queequeg
Happened this afternoon at the Manatee Gun and Archery Club.

Al, Ren and Myself were there with a couple other folks.

Ren was at bench 12, I was at 13. The fellow at 11 is the guy who had the Kaboom. He was running a Savage .338 Lapua.

After the boom, I heard Ren ask "Are you alright" and then turned to look in time to see the fellow reacting in total shock. Literally stunned.

Ren and I went over to him and could not see any major injuries. Ren was uninjured as well but had a lot of fiberglass splinters on him.

The barrel nut is what I presume punched the two holes in the roof. One was ~ 1" square, the other about half that size.

The shooter is a regular there and is a pretty smart guy. He had been having a problem with sticky cases though he said he was certain the loads were mild. That's why he was content to knock the sticky ones out with the rod.

He simply forgot to remove the rod after knocking out the last stuck case.

You can see what happened next.


Originally Posted by Ren
That's pretty much exactly it. I think there was one free bench between me and him. Luckily Alan was up in the club house, as Him and Michelle would have been right beside him at the time of the rapid field striping of the savage. Yes the action, barrel, scope, stock are all trashed.


Originally Posted by Queequeg
This happened at around 1:45 pm. The injured shooter was still shooting his other rifles when I left at 3:30.

He "Messed" up, pure and simple and he never said a word to the contrary.

I offered to put a bandage on his arm wound but he decline several times.

After about an hour he asked me if I wouldn't mind grabbing my first aid kit after all! The band aid he had on that ding was soaked with blood and running down his arm. Of course, I kind of figured it wasn't just a little boo boo when I offered to bandage him 45 minutes earlier!

He's a polite, decent guy who is a regular there and shoots a lot of really nice rifles.

He's OK.

Humbled, has a nice ding on his left arm above the elbow and probably a profound memory that won't soon fade!

He is also damn fortunate that he caught a break. And so are Ren and myself as the "ship" that blew through the steel roof was going fast enough to rip through him or us.

I prefer to be both lucky AND good!

The ceiling was cleanly penetrated by something that went vertical very swiftly!

http://forum.snipershide.com/attachments/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/27347d1390192605-kaboom-manatee-today-kaboom11_zpsf9d8b16e.jpg
http://forum.snipershide.com/attachments/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/27348d1390192644-kaboom-manatee-today-kaboom10_zps71e0426c.jpg


Originally Posted by alnkal00

It was my girl and myself to the right of this person and she was laying prone and I was videoing

Lucky for us she suggested we go heat something up and eat.

He might be a nice guy but hes got more money then brains

Ive seen him go in from the muzzle end every single time he is out there

He likes to do the shoot and clean, thats fine but good lord man use a bore guide and go in from the breach ......***!!!

Then he did it again not more then a hour later (cleaning that is) that afternoon with his other rifle, going in from the muzzle end

I f*ing knew as soon as he set up next to us that it was a bad idea

And yes Im still upset cause I was standing up next to that bullship and even more so cause my girl was right with me (Thank God She Came With This Day)

AL

[JSnover]

There ya have it. A troublesome chamber, enough stuck cases to develop the habit of punching them out from the muzzle. Sooner or later you forget one step, get distracted, etc.

[fouronesix]

If one were not witness, no telling about where the ramrod ended up or if the photo was staged. The other half of the equation would be "an object at rest wants to stay at rest" .... the overall concept is called inertia. That ramrod is likely fairly massive in relation to the bullet. Bullet could have easily tried to overrun the ramrod before the ramrod had a chance to move very far. The kinetic energy of the collision would have expanded both the bullet and end of the ramrod tight into the bore. By that time the breech rupture could have been complete... so no more pressure.... no more movement of the bullet or ramrod.

BTW. I've done experiments on a couple of firearms involving similarly massive bore obstructions. The results were as described above.

[starmac]

I am pretty sure if I was sitting beside him and he was having to extract cases with a rod, I would have heard about this second hand. It would be hard to blame savage for leaving a rod in the bore.

[country gent]

A very catosropic faliure that was avoidable. There are many reasons this could happen. Leaving a rod to draw heat, cases sticking a bad extractor. cleaning and got distracted. The distraction is the issue when distracted or interuppted it pays to do a double check of everything to be sure what is what. Muzzle loaders with the removeable false muzzles were pined for 2 reasons one to keep the rifling in alighnment and there was a blade,pin bar blocking view of target to sights if left on. While no one was hurt this time it is more luck than any other reason no one was. The shock waves running thru the length of that rod had to be impressive though. Rather than debating wether its real or not maybe we should step back and examine our personal practices so it dosnt happen again. I would hate to hear one of the cast boolets family has been injured for a reason like this

[John Allen]

So he is out a rifle and a pair of underwear

[bhn22]

I found a picture of the shooter. Tall skinny fella:
97475

[Hickory]

Clean from the BREACH!

[starmac]

Well witnesses claim he was having stuck case problems, it is pretty hard to shove a case out from the BREACH.........

[Artful]

seems a lot of reports of Savage 338 LM having issues with Hornady brass sticking but not Laupa?

[TheDoctor]

Saw something similar one day. Guy at my range had a brand new Sako in 338 Lapua. Was bore sighting at the bench. He remembered to remove the boresighter. What he DIDN'T check.....was that the mandrel came out with it. Peeled the barrel halfway down the stock. Action and scope seemed ok. Scared the schizit out of all of us.

[leadman]

I do clean a couple of rifles from the muzzle on the range and it can be done by standing alongside the bench and sliding the rifle back so the muzzle is even with the front of the bench.
If this guy was having continuing problem with stuck cases could be that rod is solid to add some weight to knock the cases out easier.
Mild loads and stuck cases in a case that size that uses very slow powders? Maybe tooo light on the powder and causing a high pressure situation?
I have sat out a couple rounds on the range 'cuz some shooter or other was having problems he shouldn't have or just unsafe. I usually inform one of the RSOs as to what is going on.

[oldfart1956]

Well....I have sent a ramrod downrange form a muzzleloader. Quite impressive recoil. Also, it's common for me to carry a range rod in the barrel on the way to the range when testing loads for leading. I could very easily see me not pulling the rod before firing. You won't clean my trapdoor from the breech with a rod. I won't tear the Marlin apart every time I want to swab for leading. I can...but I'm not gonna do it. I might have 10 different loads for it and I'd spend more time breaking it down an re-assembling than shooting. Before someone has renal failure...I do use a crown guard/muzzle protector. Some of the handles on my rods are so small you'd never see them from a firing position. Not all of use are perfect and we learn to live with it. Some of the replies make me feel like my proctologist...surrounded by...ahhhh...enough. Audie....the Oldfart..

[Bullwolf]

I watched a guy do something similar about 20 years ago with a bolt action Marlin 22 magnum rifle, and an aluminum cleaning rod section. (without the handle) Luckily for him he did not get hurt. In this case it shot the cleaning rod section all the way out of the gun, and it also blew the magazine out of the gun. The cause was pretty obvious when you saw the cleaning rod laying on the ground a bit away from the shooter. I don't recall if the cleaning rod got bent or not.

Surprisingly to all around the gun was still functional afterwards. I was close by when it happened and got to check out the barrel, and chamber. Once the brass was cleared, the chamber did not appear to be visibly swollen, and there was no bulge anywhere that I could detect in the barrel. After all that the gun still functioned!

The guy stuck the magazine back in and went on shooting the rifle like nothing spectacular had happened. Sure glad that it wasn't my rifle. Chalk this up as another reason not to go shooting next to strangers at the public range.

Of course this was only a 22 magnum rim fire, not a center fire rifle. It still it left quite an impression on me after seeing it done. I'd hate to see it happen with a higher pressure cartridge.



- Bullwolf

[btroj]

Hmmmm, a couple blown up 338 Lapuas. Could it be mall ninjas buying a big, bad rifle to send it?

Maybe they are a sign of the new shooters on the range.

[.22-10-45]

How do we know the guy was cleaning? could have had a stuck case..handloads? & gotten a bit rattled and simply forgot?

[Love Life]

The story is a little old. The chambers are known for sticking cases. Hornady makes brass just as crappy as Federal.

The man was punching the cases out with his cleaning rod and was fine with his sticky case situation. Seemed to be a common thing with the savages.

The full report (with the guy who actually did it) is on Sniper's hide.

[tomme boy]

If I remember right about the 338 Lap. the throat has to set up for solids if you are to shoot them. This is one of the reasons for case failures in this round.