CF Rifle for Ohio Whitetail is here, almost

[bikerbeans]

The Ohio DNR has published a proposed rule change to allow the use of certain CF Rifles for whitetail deer hunting. Rules are now out for public comment and there will be open houses on March 1, 2014 to discuss these and other proposed hunting rules. Open houses are at the district ODNR offices and the state office in Columbus. If you want to hunt deer with a CF rifle in Ohio please come to an open house and voice your support for this rule change. You can also go to the ODNR website and submit and online comment in support of this change.

There is a list of proposed deer legal cartridges on the ODNR website. Basically straight wall calibers .357 and larger. The 50-90 & 50-110 are both on the proposed list, I may need to go after my 50-70 with a reamer.:kidding:

If this proposed rule becomes law I hope to be able to post a pic this fall of a deer taken with my 444S and a 270g LHPGC.


BB

[Djones]

I like those proposed rules better than IN current 1.8" brass length 357 or larger rule.

Good luck. I hope it passes so you don't have to use those darn expensive hard kicking slugs.

[kenyerian]

It is proposed that this rule be amended to allow the use of certain caliber rifles during the firearms season for deer. These rifles are traditional black powder cartridge or pistol cartridge rifles and include the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum,.444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Smith & Wesson. It is further proposed that these rifles be limited to a total of 3 live cartridges through the use of a plug or inert ammunition inserted into the magazine
Hope it passes.

[Cmm_3940]

So pistol calibers and BP rifle cartridges. It still doesn't allow modern CF rifle, but it is better than what we have now.

The 3 cartridge/plug requirement is still silly, though. I don't care if I'm unlikely to get more than one shot at a deer anyway, plugging a rifle is just a huge nuisance to appease someones irrational fears of hunters carrying a full magazine.

[Blammer]

hmm, never new 444 was a Black Powder cartridge or a pistol cartridge.

[madsenshooter]

If I could use a Krag, I'd be for it. Hmm, seems I remember reading a Krag could be made to feed the 444. I don't know, there's an awful lot of people who don't know the range of what they're already allowed to use. This is going to require some thought.

[uscra112]

Now you've got me thinking there. Got a few Krags, got some .444 brass somewhere........

I've also just read about a guy many years ago who was fixing up Krags to shoot the .30-30. If that's possible, then bring on the .38-55 (or .375 Winchester).

Oh happy day !

[bikerbeans]

It is legal to hunt deer in OH with pistols (BFR) chambered in 444M so I think that is how that one made the list. The 375 WIN dates to about 1978 and it made it as well.

BB

[NSP64]

Just as ignorant as the deer hunting laws here in ILLinois.

[Cmm_3940]

It is legal to hunt deer in OH with pistols (BFR) chambered in 444M so I think that is how that one made the list. The 375 WIN dates to about 1978 and it made it as well.

BB

Correct.

Read below for what Ohio has to say about allowable handgun cartridges. Also notice the additional idiocy regarding bullet diameter and nominal caliber, etc.

[badgeredd]

I wonder what the problem is with 44-40 and 38-40? It seems to me it would be better to adaopy a minimum and maximum energy figure. In IN they've dropped the straight wall cartridge wording which has opened the door for some interesting wildcats. MI on the other hand can't get it together for us in the lower third if the state.

On the three cartridge rule: sounds good to me as I often hear 5 successive shots enough times to know that some individuals don't stop shooting until they are out of ammo. No one can tell me and make me believe they really know what is beyond their target. In reality, it would please me to be allowed to hunt with a rifle with any of the cartridges listed even with a limit on mag capacity. My opinion...

Edd

[KLR]

On the three cartridge rule: sounds good to me as I often hear 5 successive shots enough times to know that some individuals don't stop shooting until they are out of ammo. No one can tell me and make me believe they really know what is beyond their target. In reality, it would please me to be allowed to hunt with a rifle with any of the cartridges listed even with a limit on mag capacity. My opinion...

Edd

I'm not big on rules, but I'm inclined to agree. The guys near me blast away until their guns are empty even when it's too dark to see. Sounds like a war zone.

[mark2935]

So we can use a whompn-stompn buffalo killer but 30-30win. & 35rem. are out. Dear odnr, give us more gun days. Bring back the Dec. weekend. Maybe add another day or two to it.

Mark#35

[Hickory]

Well now, this is the most interesting thing I've heard in months.

[Hickory]

I wonder what the problem is with 44-40 and 38-40?
Edd

They've considered bottle-neck cases.

[Themoose]

The three cartridge rule sounds like it will be a pain with guns that have clips or magazines.. It will be hard to modify magazines and clips and dummy rounds sound like an opportunity for a serious accident in the making. I understand some peoples thoughts on the existing 3 round rule, but never understood it very well... If a guy hunts in Ohio with a revolver does he only have three rounds? It seems to me a hunter with a scoped shotgun, sighted in with modern ammo would have less tendency to "pray and spray".
I hunt Southern Ohio and have only missed one year since 1978... it is the only place where I have heard 3 and 4 shot muzzleloaders in the blackpowder season.... never seen them, but in those deep "hollers" you can hear them a long way off.

[bikerbeans]

So we can use a whompn-stompn buffalo killer but 30-30win. & 35rem. are out. Dear odnr, give us more gun days. Bring back the Dec. weekend. Maybe add another day or two to it.

Mark#35

Mark,


Go to one of the ODNR Open Houses on Saturday March 1, 2014 and voice your opinion. You can also log onto the ODNR website and comment on the proposed hunting rules.


BB

[Cmm_3940]

So we can use a whompn-stompn buffalo killer but 30-30win. & 35rem. are out. Dear odnr, give us more gun days. Bring back the Dec. weekend. Maybe add another day or two to it.

Mark#35

hey, you can still hunt deer legally with the mighty .38 Spl round... :groner:

[Shakey Jakey]

I wonder what the problem is with 44-40 and 38-40? It seems to me it would be better to adaopy a minimum and maximum energy figure. In IN they've dropped the straight wall cartridge wording which has opened the door for some interesting wildcats. MI on the other hand can't get it together for us in the lower third if the state.

On the three cartridge rule: sounds good to me as I often hear 5 successive shots enough times to know that some individuals don't stop shooting until they are out of ammo. No one can tell me and make me believe they really know what is beyond their target. In reality, it would please me to be allowed to hunt with a rifle with any of the cartridges listed even with a limit on mag capacity. My opinion...

EddLegislation is working its way thru to allow straight wall pistol cartridges in southern Michigan. My Remington 788 44 mag is chomping at the bit!

[Camba]

Single rifles, double rifles, and combo guns would be great. I can almost see people being cited for "more than 3 rounds" violation. I also could hear the sound of "click" in front of a monster buck with a dummy round in the chamber. :)
Camba

[JesterGrin_1]

Find a Beat up ole Marlin 336 in 30-30 and send it off to Jess to rebore to 38-55 and push a 250Gr RNFP/GC at 2000+ FPS of which it is capable of and you will definitely have something. I say Jess as he can rebore it to a usable .375 bore so you can use jacketed as well as cast Boolits. Unlike the Marlin 336CB in 38-55.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC380250RF/data/loadnotes01.pdf

[Sparky141]

This would be awesome . I could use my 1894 in 357 mag , 1894CB in 45 , 336 in 375 Win or the 1895 in 45/70 instead of a TC muzzleloader .

[JesterGrin_1]

This would be awesome . I could use my 1894 in 357 mag , 1894CB in 45 , 336 in 375 Win or the 1895 in 45/70 instead of a TC muzzleloader .

Yep but as I mentioned the 375 Winchester and the 38-55 can be loaded up to reach out there and touch stuff.

[Pb2au]

My my my.
This is rather interesting.

[Sparky141]

I guess I will have to round up some cast for the 375 as it only gets fed those J word projectiles . the rest shoot cast already . I really like throwing those 405's out of the 45/70 .

[bikerbeans]

I have a 94AE presafety that I have thinking about sending to JES for the 38-55 treatment (brass is hard to find, least for me, on the 375W). I already have a 444S Marlin and a six-pack of legal single shots, but hey I really NEED a .375 cal levergun, right?

BB

[StrawHat]

And maybe, someday, I will get to use my Burnside on an Ohio deer. Currently it falls outside the legal definition!

[waksupi]

It would be easier if the state made a maximum velocity, and minimum bullet weight as the criteria. Say, 2000 fps., 180 gr. in a 30 bore. Range is the concern, so this would limit the flight of the projectile.

[mark2935]

Biker, thanks I've already posted. I just needed to vent. Remember when Ohio tried a 2 week gun season? Best hunt I ever had. Took 2 does the first week with shotgun. Took the biggest buck ever with a Ruger .44mag the second week. We have deer coming out our ears in Ohio. The kill count was down for 2013-14. If odnr wants more dead deer give us longer season and moderate centerfire rifles.

Mark#35

[Old Dawg]

They are trying to balance several factors. 1) To assure cartridge has sufficient powerful to assure humane lethality. 2) To restrict excess range to minimize risks to public safety from stray shots. 3) The 'straight case' only rule probably arise out of #2 in a effort to prevent someone from showing up with something like a .50 BMG necked down to .375. As in all compromises a lot of people are going to get ticked off regardless. In terms of hunting practicality no one is going to be prevented from a successful hunting experience by the restrictions. Remember most of our big game was almost exterminated by weapons far less effective than these.

[StrawHat]

I read that more deer in Ohio are killed by vehicles than by hunters. Time to change that.

[Shakey Jakey]

It would be easier if the state made a maximum velocity, and minimum bullet weight as the criteria. Say, 2000 fps., 180 gr. in a 30 bore. Range is the concern, so this would limit the flight of the projectile.How should they enforce that?

[badgeredd]

Legislation is working its way thru to allow straight wall pistol cartridges in southern Michigan. My Remington 788 44 mag is chomping at the bit!

Our idiotic legislature and some of the DNR idjots seem to be dragging their feet in gettin-er-dun. If Ohio passes a limited rifle law the pressure will be on the MDNR because the neighboring states will be making money where our state won't. It always comes down to cash with these guys. Case in point...the recent change of heart on motorcyclists and helmets. A very confused legislature it is!

Edd

[JimA]

I hope you buckeyes get this passed. If you don't all shoot each other the first year maybe our illustrious Michigan DNR will get the message and quit digging in their heels about pistol caliber rifles in lower Michigan.
You even have better choices for ammo. Our proposal would limit the length of cases to 1.16 through 1.80 inches. That would eliminate all of the big boomers longer than a .460 S&W. It would also weed out 10mm and 45acp as well as the mighty.38 special.

[waksupi]

How should they enforce that?

No idea, but it makes more sense than having a list of legal chamberings I would think.

[jlchucker]

It is proposed that this rule be amended to allow the use of certain caliber rifles during the firearms season for deer. These rifles are traditional black powder cartridge or pistol cartridge rifles and include the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum,.444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Smith & Wesson. It is further proposed that these rifles be limited to a total of 3 live cartridges through the use of a plug or inert ammunition inserted into the magazine
Hope it passes.
What kind of a proposed rule for deer hunting would omit the 30-30? Whoever came up with this one, straight case or not, has to be considered to be a brainless idiot.

[StrawHat]

Ohio deer are nearly armor plated, the 30 WCF isn't nearly enough cartridge! However, they also omitted the 405 WCF from the list and it is straight walled. Curious?

[bikerbeans]

The current pistol cartridge regulations for deer allow for any straight wall cartridge with a bullet diameter of .357" or greater. I am going to lobby ODNR at the open house this Saturday to include that same language for the rifle cartridges. This would allow the 445SM, 405Win and straightwall "wildcats" and any other commercial SW cartridge they forgot.

I agree a .30-30 WCF should be on the list but the current proposal is easier for ODNR's field personnel to enforce as it is basically the same rules they have been enforcing for handgun deer hunting.


BB

[KLR]

These are government guys, not firearms enthusiasts. Let them get this in place and then we can work on tweaking it for the 30-30.

[birddog1148]

I am thinking one of these
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/handi-rifle-sb2457-govt-open-hardwood-stock-blue-finish-rifle-sights-p-23576.html

[kenyerian]

I like the way Birddog is thinking. This law will give me an excuse to get a 45-70 again. (still have the dies). A friend of mine recently inherited an old trapdoor. Maybe I can trade him out of it. I'll have to buy at least three so my son and grandson's can have fun to. Maybe a new barrel for the Encore or a couple of Handies? The possibilities are endless.

[country gent]

Several western states have a "power factor" based on factory ammo loadings for big game hunting. bullet wieght X factory listed velocity. These are normally the mininum allowed cartridges. The kicker comes in describing the upper end as Ohio is trying to do also. Ohio wants mid range cartridges to limit range. Much harder to describe. One other thing to keep in mind is crop damage permits last I knew had no restrictions to firearms when issued. I dont believe they have to be used during seasons either. I can see alot of interesting interpetations of this change in regulations. I am sure Ohio hunters are going to be as safe, considerate and careful as they always have been.

[bikerbeans]

I spent some time today at the ODNR open house in Findlay. I am guessing there were 2 to 3 dozen attendees present for the 1/2 hour I was there. More folks were arriving when I left. ODNR officers were present to discuss any and all of the proposed rule changes. The discussion were held in small groups. Folks were encourage to provide written comments on the proposed rules. The informal style of the open house didn't lend itself to knowing what changes most of the other folks attending were discussing. I was told that the published list of cartridge is pretty much set, but there may be a change in how/if the magazine limit is enforced. I sure hope this passes so I can "justify" buying a Marlin 1895 45-70.


BB

[KLR]

One other thing to keep in mind is crop damage permits last I knew had no restrictions to firearms when issued. I dont believe they have to be used during seasons either.

There are no restrictions to firearms with crop damage permits but there is limitation as to when they can be used. They expire before bowhunting season begins and are not issued again until after the hunting season is over and deer damage to crops becomes evident.

[Camba]

I used to live in Iowa and you could only hunt with shotgun slugs. After some time, they allowed to do handgun hunting (357 mag through 45-70) straight wall cartridges, pistol rounds. Other things there is that feeders are not allowed. That technique made the deer population grow because you don't snipe the deer from 1/2 a mile away. Iowa went from finding a deer in the field and people stop to view then as a rarity. By the time I left Iowa (2006), I learn that Iowa is "the place" to go for monster bucks. I don't know if my train of thought has any correlation but that's the way I understand it. The southern counties along Missouri are open to high power rifles but the rest is shotgun only. I wish Iowa would have allowed the same as in Ohio is trying to do now. I guess it does not matter to me now since I am in Missouri. In Missouri, the public hunting lands have different rules from one another. In one you may use high power rifle while in another you can only use archery or shotgun only. Some areas are for bucks only (no does allowed to kill) and the buck must be at least 4 points in one side of the antlers or better.
The places where you can bring a high power rifle are crowded during the opening day. After that, most if not all of the shootable deer are already taken and you are pretty much done; unless of course, you have your own property or access to one.
Going with straight wall pistol caliber rifles would be great in my opinion until the deer population is up to great levels.
I am not against of bottle neck cartridges, and hope some time soon, they too will be in the list of hunting rifles for deer.
Camba



Our idiotic legislature and some of the DNR idjots seem to be dragging their feet in gettin-er-dun. If Ohio passes a limited rifle law the pressure will be on the MDNR because the neighboring states will be making money where our state won't. It always comes down to cash with these guys. Case in point...the recent change of heart on motorcyclists and helmets. A very confused legislature it is!

Edd

[AlaskanGuy]

I just dont get why they make thing so complicated with so many rules and exceptions... What a nightmare trying to figure things out, and enforcement requires carrying that has about as many pages as the Bible.... Need to be able to quote chapter and verse of the hunting regs these days....

[JesterGrin_1]

I used to live in Iowa and you could only hunt with shotgun slugs. After some time, they allowed to do handgun hunting (357 mag through 45-70) straight wall cartridges, pistol rounds. Other things there is that feeders are not allowed. That technique made the deer population grow because you don't snipe the deer from 1/2 a mile away. Iowa went from finding a deer in the field and people stop to view then as a rarity. By the time I left Iowa (2006), I learn that Iowa is "the place" to go for monster bucks. I don't know if my train of thought has any correlation but that's the way I understand it. The southern counties along Missouri are open to high power rifles but the rest is shotgun only. I wish Iowa would have allowed the same as in Ohio is trying to do now. I guess it does not matter to me now since I am in Missouri. In Missouri, the public hunting lands have different rules from one another. In one you may use high power rifle while in another you can only use archery or shotgun only. Some areas are for bucks only (no does allowed to kill) and the buck must be at least 4 points in one side of the antlers or better.
The places where you can bring a high power rifle are crowded during the opening day. After that, most if not all of the shootable deer are already taken and you are pretty much done; unless of course, you have your own property or access to one.
Going with straight wall pistol caliber rifles would be great in my opinion until the deer population is up to great levels.
I am not against of bottle neck cartridges, and hope some time soon, they too will be in the list of hunting rifles for deer.
Camba

Come on down to South TEXAS. As far as I know High Powered Rifles have always been allowed and there are so many Deer you could not count them. The problem here is to find a place to hunt is Expensive as there really is not any public land to hunt on. And from what I read on this forum and many other places about public land hunting up north it can be darn dangerous. As before going on the net and forums I have never even heard of people having to get to the game that they have taken as fast as they could in fear of someone else taking it. That just blows me away to even think someone would do that. And of course expect to live if caught.

The only time anything like that has happened to me is in a group field Dove Hunting. And since it is Dove it is more fun than anything else. And if someone actually thinks they got a dove 100 yards from me and yells they got it hey I will laugh like Renfield and let them have it lol.

But even though I have been in South TEXAS all of my life pretty much. I have traveled some. And so I understand where certain areas should be held to certain calibers due to how far they can travel to deadly effect. I just wish the people that were in charge of these requirements knew more about what they were talking about.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I think you change the dynamic not the cartridge , allow any rifle cartridge , but you only get 1 in the gun at a time all the guns work , every body can use any cartridge they want and everyone makes a solid effort to only hit the one target

easy to enforce , no bang bang bang unless they are still using the shot gun

but the thing was shotguns were getting more powerfull longer range shooters than many of the cartridges being talked about


it is funny that they will allow 38 spl but not 38 super a balisticaly superior round that is still below the 357 mag we should just accept that politicians are not gun people , heck most hunters don't know half the cartridges that exist they just can't make sense of it all

make it simple we know you could make a real reach out ad touch then cartridge out of a lot of things , 1 of anything and the user is going to be a lot more judicious about where he/she puts it and it will make what it is a mute point

buy the way Wisconsin is now all rifle as of 2013 ,except by local ordinance , the state made the local guys the bad guys and left it up to them to tell you no if you don't like the answer re-elect your local town board and have a new vote. local is the way it should be. I am sure there are many parts of Ohio away from the cities and east along the KY boarder or IN border that are thinly populated and should have use of rifle.

surprisingly very few townships made any ordinance to stop rifle and it has not been an issue

[JimA]

I didn't make it to the open house at Findlay. But I put my two cents in on the web site. It would be easiest for a game warden to have a laminated card with a cartridge list to refer to. I'd leave off a few like the 38 special and 45 acp. I'd include a few like the 44wcf or the popular for BPCR, 40/65 and 40/70ss + bn. Plenty of cartridges in that class, but hard to include everything. Too dangerous for me to go out, so I don't really have a horse in this race. Shotgun season is bang, bang , bang all day long. Lots of lead in the air. Common to see muddy pickups going back a couple times during the day to Walmart & Kmart for more shotgun slugs. Handloaders, boolit casters are fairly common among single shot & lever action guys but a tiny minority among the once a year deer hunters. I'd like to take out a 45/70 or 40/70ss or 38/55 single shot. But I don't want to get shot, or get guns pointed at me on land I have permission for by drunken poachers who don't. I think if all types of firearms (rifles, pistols, shotguns) during our deer season were limited to a single shot, like the muzzle loaders, it would do more for safety than limiting cartridges. I've always been comfortable with a single shot, the Benneli crowd might stay home. Awful lot of Encore users in my area, as muzzleloaders. Another barrel would be a easy choice for them, many already own one in a varmint caliber.

Wow... You sure have a lot of common misconception going there. How many people were shot during deer season in your area of Ohio? Too dangerous? You drive a car don't you? That's a heck of a lot more likely to kill you than all those "drunken poachers" that you see driving muddy trucks to Walmart for more slugs to put in the air..
Sure there is a lot of shooting during slug season, especially the first few days. That's when most of the deer are taken too. As much as you have heard the horror stories, deer hunting is a pretty safe pursuit.

[Cmm_3940]

Where the heck in Ohio do you live, so I can avoid it? None of that stuff goes on where I live, and there is a LOT of deer hunting going on here.

[Hickory]

You can think I have "a lot of common misconception going on". I just related my experiences. Been deliberately shot at a couple times. Other times hit the dirt with lead bouncing off trees around me, from guys sweeping thru, no permission from the landowner, no consideration for anyone who might be there legally; in areas where I was the Only one to have permission to hunt.
The drunken poachers aren't my imagination, when I see them shooting from the windows of pickups, and driving deer with 4-wheelers, throwing empty beer cans from both as they go.

This is a very good description of the deer "hunting" that goes on where I live.
The skirmishers as I refer to them will shoot anything that moves or is the color of a deer.
I have counted as many as 19 in a group driving deer to the shooters lying in the ditchs.
Another of my friends calls them gangbangers.
Differently not my style of hunting.

[Djones]

I just dont get why they make thing so complicated with so many rules and exceptions... What a nightmare trying to figure things out, and enforcement requires carrying that has about as many pages as the Bible.... Need to be able to quote chapter and verse of the hunting regs these days....

Ohio's proposed regs seem like they will be easier to enforce compared to Indiana. I have to cut down my brass for my 35 Rem, 358 win and 45-70 to 1.8" to be considered legal. I'm definitely not complaining. I get to use my rifles with cast these days instead of buying a few boxes of expensive 12 ga slugs.

Here is what I'm working on for this year. The left is standard 308 brass necked up and trimmed to 1.990" and right is same case trimmed to 1.790". The one on the right is legal, 358 win with NOE's 360-180 wfngc. I'm getting good results with 23-25 grains of 2400. Velocity is avg 2000 FPS with 23grains and 2175 with 25 grains. I will use this same bullet in my 357 carbine for closer shots and the 358 for the open fields where shots may push 200 yards.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/B1C10524-EF26-4A2F-B106-14CE41BA9E9B.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/B1C10524-EF26-4A2F-B106-14CE41BA9E9B.jpg.html)

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/A2F64935-428A-4F62-A722-142FEFE00CD6.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/A2F64935-428A-4F62-A722-142FEFE00CD6.jpg.html)

[osteodoc08]

I really hope this law goes into effect. I have a good friend who I hope to hunt with this coming year and would love to bring my 45/70.

[Pb2au]

Does anyone have an idea when we will hear any developments on this?

[Jeff Michel]

It's still in the comment period, which is ninety days. After the comment period, they make additions or retractions, modifications, etc and make a final draft. The house/senate votes. If passed, goes straight to the governor for signature. After signed into law, it will take four to six months to come into effect. If everything goes smoothly, it will be in place in plenty of time to get the word out. Mr. Hickory described to a tee, the majority of deer hunting escapades during gun season in Ohio. I gave up gun season thirty years ago, The muzzleloader season is much less..........stressful.

[Pb2au]

I hear ya.
The public land we hunt is so remote that only the fools like us go there.
Muzzleloader season tends to be pretty calm.

[micky_blue]

The vote is supposed to happen on the 10th of this month. I have heard that they will revise the 2014 laws so it will be in effect this year. I have heard both sides though, that it will not take effect until 2015 too.

[Jeff Michel]

I would be much surprised they would alter or revise anything prior to to the passage of any legislation. The governing body still don't know what the law contains until a final draft is published. The slow part will come after the law is passed. If the folks in Ohio remember the on-going changes in our concealed carry law, after a change in the law was passed, there was a gap of four to six months before implementation of the changes. The seeming lack of activity stems from the sad fact that the enforcement people have to be trained in the new legal requirements so there won't be any or few enforcement problems. As it is impossible to pull everyone off the job and sit them in a class room, they train as time and replacement people are available. It's doubtful that this newly minted law will satisfy everyone. The more changes demanded= more debate=more time evaluating the proposed law. I think of accepting the currently offered pistol calibers and leaning toward modifying the law down the road to accept different (e.g. bottleneck cartridges) would speed the evaluation process up considerably, because any significant changes will be studied very carefully. This is a public safety issue more that a hunting rights issue. They do want to get this right as possible out of the gate.

[jlchucker]

I just dont get why they make thing so complicated with so many rules and exceptions... What a nightmare trying to figure things out, and enforcement requires carrying that has about as many pages as the Bible.... Need to be able to quote chapter and verse of the hunting regs these days....

It's because Federal, State, and even some local government agencies like to hire stupid people to write regulations. The dumber the regulation, the more additional "clarifying" regulations they can write. If they have to write more regulations, that justifies hiring more bureaucrats, creating more supervisory positions they can promote to supervise the newbees. And on it goes. It's not just gun stuff--they do it with everything. And all of the people filling these positions know that the elected politicians come and go, but the bureaucrats stay forever.

[Jeff Michel]

The drafting of laws is complicated and the people that write them are far from stupid or indolent. To take a proposal, and to consider the ramifications to the public at large and not to just a small segment that may be directly affected is an incredible task even on casual glance. Many of the people I deal with everyday take some sort of offense to a law or regulatory requirement with little or no regard as to why the law is in place in the first place. The notion that a particular law or requirement has be drafted to just honk you off is not exactly an example introspective reflection. Laws are in place to protect certain segments of society whether they be individuals, groups or businesses and this can also mean a refuge from legal actions against these same entities There are plenty of laws I don't necessarily care for as they impact me directly or affects something I like to pursue as an interest but without legal controls in place you will have anarchy at worst or inconsistent application of whatever statute you may be under while being scrutinized by that nice policeman. Due process for everyone is one of the main driving forces behind any law, from proposal, to draft, to legislative acceptance, to signature, to the training of the people empowered to enforce the laws and to you the citizen that the law will ultimately affect directly. It's not just seat belt laws and pistol cartridges for deer in Ohio. It's Social Security and national defense and roads and schools and food and cars and.........................

[largom]

The drafting of laws is complicated and the people that write them are far from stupid or indolent. To take a proposal, and to consider the ramifications to the public at large and not to just a small segment that may be directly affected is an incredible task even on casual glance. Many of the people I deal with everyday take some sort of offense to a law or regulatory requirement with little or no regard as to why the law is in place in the first place. The notion that a particular law or requirement has be drafted to just honk you off is not exactly an example introspective reflection. Laws are in place to protect certain segments of society whether they be individuals, groups or businesses and this can also mean a refuge from legal actions against these same entities There are plenty of laws I don't necessarily care for as they impact me directly or affects something I like to pursue as an interest but without legal controls in place you will have anarchy at worst or inconsistent application of whatever statute you may be under while being scrutinized by that nice policeman. Due process for everyone is one of the main driving forces behind any law, from proposal, to draft, to legislative acceptance, to signature, to the training of the people empowered to enforce the laws and to you the citizen that the law will ultimately affect directly. It's not just seat belt laws and pistol cartridges for deer in Ohio. It's Social Security and national defense and roads and schools and food and cars and.........................

Is this how Obamacare was done?

Larry

[Jeff Michel]

Yes, in the beginning. The opposition party couldn't stop it. They did claim it was unconstitutional after the law was signed, and it went to the Supreme court. It was determined it was a tax and the government could levy a tax whenever the felt compelled. What is illegal is the modification to the existing law itself. You just can't delay the implementation of a law because and lets face it, would have a decidedly negative impact on your constituents resulting in the loss of your position of power. Regrettably, the GOP is so infirm of purpose they won't do anything to hold the administration accountable for this breach. They have never had the votes to overturn it in total and in spite of the majority of the populace's strong opposition, we are likely "stuck with it" until such a time that we are unable to pay for it. I apologize to the moderators for this shameless hijack, which was not my intent. Please exercise any action you would deem appropriate.

[birddog1148]

I need a new rifle :)

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio

[clyde-the-pointer]

Great news. I will fire up the .45-70 this year. Might even stay with open sights!