Occupation of New Orleans

[Jumptrap]

I wonder how long troops will occupy New Orleans?

Obviously what happened there was the result of some terrorist plot to destroy the oil fields of the Bay and incite the unrest of the ethnic Turds who inhabit that part Louisianastan.

I know the President tried to delay sending troops there as long as he could...and I agree with him, but finally he was forced to send the military in to control the sniping, anarchy and unrest in the area.

I suspect the taxpayer will be held hostage there for at least 10 more years, building new projects to house the inhabitants. There will be political unrest for years because it will be hailed as the fault of the Government for not preventing the Hurricane from coming ashore. Already, the leaders of the Black Caucus are proclaiming the lack of InstantAid is a conspiracy against them. Never fails.

[sundog]

Jump, wonder why Dub-ya didn't tap Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for fund raisers instead of Dad and Billy? Okay, I'm done wondering now....

Aside from that, the President can allow humintarian assistance of the active services, but police type duties must not be performed (research the Bonus March). National Guard troops in a STATE mission, not Federal, respond to the Governors of the individual states in that role. Now, it just so happens that some of these Guard units have been pretty well trained up and just returned from a federal mission in Iraq or Afghanistan. In other words, they have thier collective dodo together. It has to do with Posse Comatatis (sp). Can't use federal troops as police, basically. Sooo, if there is a problem with policing, and Martial Law is not declared, its on the state. Someone else can chime in, but I think I got the basics covered. Of course, an emergency of this magnitude REQUIRES collective creative thinking and action. sundog

[imashooter2]

Witness Kanye West at the Red Cross telethon with his "George Bush doesn't care about black people" rant. What a chunk of $hit.

http://x700.putfile.com/videos/24420044548.wmv

[waksupi]

This should be an eye opener. The government isn't ready to handle a major disaster. Never was, never will be.
Imagine the projected detonation of a nuclear bomb in this country. Imagine it is in Chicago. In mid winter. At minus 20. Any guesses on survival rate?

[Scrounger]

This should be an eye opener. The government isn't ready to handle a major disaster. Never was, never will be.
Imagine the projected detonation of a nuclear bomb in this country. Imagine it is in Chicago. In mid winter. At minus 20. Any guesses on survival rate?

The cockroaches always survive, even the two legged variety...

[sundog]

Since I brought it up, I thought I would clarify my comments about the Posse Comitatus Act. For anyone interested in understanding how and why things work the way they do hit the link below. sundog

http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5

[Bret4207]

In a case like this no matter who's running thing they will screw it up, or at least somebody will say so. I think this is a good example of why we need to bring responsibility back to the State level and less from the Feds. I've seen FEMA up close along with some of the other Fed agencies and during disaters they generally PO the locals to the point of fist fights. They show up days after the disaster and try to change whatever rudimentary system is in place to suit their idea of what it should be. IOW- tear it apart and do it our way if you want Federal $$$$. The only ones worse than this is the Red Cross. I will not suport them in any way beyond blood drives after seeing them at 9/11 and our ice storm of '98. The Salvation Army on the other hand has my complete support.

Having gone off on that tangent I'll try to get back to the point. There used to be good workable Civil Defense systems back in the 60's that were run on the local, usually County, level. I recall seeing our local CD centers map room where every piece of heavy equipment, dump truck, gas station, food store, warhouse, etc was mapped and detailed as to what services and equipment was available. The locals knew what was where and who could help. The COunties were supportted by the State and then the Feds supportted the whole shebang. Now it seems the Feds are 1st responders, or so people expect. The really sad part is that post 9/11 we're no further along in preparedness than this.

[grumble]

"Now it seems the Feds are 1st responders, or so people expect. The really sad part is that post 9/11 we're no further along in preparedness than this."

BINGO, Bret. Governors whined and cried at their conference after 9-11 that they wanted to keep the authority and responsibility for "first responder" duties. They didn't want (and properly so, IMO) the National Gov't taking over their assets, they just wanted money from the Nat Govt. So that's what happened.

It's been my observation that the first ones who scream "foul" and point noisy fingers at someone else are the ones most responsible, and are trying the "a good offense is the best defense" ploy. Listening to who's doing the squalking now about the lack of response leads me to believe that those folks screw up big time, and are trying to deflect criticism. Gov Blanco is being amazingly quiet for a politician and everyone seems to be very restrained in any criticism for the NO mayor.

I guess it's just more fun to blame the Nat Govt.

[Jumptrap]

I went and read some of the Posse Comitatis info from the link supplied by sundog.

This caught my eye:

The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.

Insurrections?

Like Tienimen Square? Hungary 1956? Czechoslovakia 1968? "use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S."

Folks, **** like this is NO different than the laws the Soviets used to quell revolt against their authority.

Funny damned thing to me, is the fact that the very act of Revolution used to put the US Government in control is outlawed by the same! Even worse, is the fact that the troops WILL fire upon the citizens. They shot WW1 vets protesting for lack of work under the orders of MacArthur who was a colonel or some **** at the time. The Army has always taught the troops that Unions are RED organizations and need to be destroyed....uh hmm. Now that the RED Meanace is gone, I wonder what ruse is used to brainwash the troops into believing the Generals are infallible?

I fear that what we have believed as the imposible is coming true. Our Society is crumbling before our eyes like the Roman Empire did.

Crank up the stereo and put on some ZZ Top...Cheap Sunglasses....hide behind them thick black frames. The politicians do.

[carpetman]

Jumptrap---Insurerrections?---That's what Viagra does.

[carpetman]

Tpr Brett---My dad witnessed how the American Red Cross(ARC) reacted at a disaster and he too held low opinion and would not support them. When I did Air Force Aid Society work, it was to be a co-ordinated effort that I handled cases the ARC could not. When I first started,there was a woman that was director of the office on base and she did a fair job. I gained a little respect for the organization. Then they got a totally useless director. The idiot would come to my office and talk to my boss about policy. I wore two hats so to speak,I was in charge of the Air Force Aid Society,and when my boss was doing Air Force Aid Society work--which seldom happened as I did almost 100% of it,he actually worked for me. I was the one he should have talked to about policy as my boss knew little about it,and did not have the say. The ARC rep was so clueless he never did figure that out. He was so useless that it got to where I just handled the case and didnt waste my time seeing if he would---he wouldn't. Except drawing a pay check,I know of nothing he did. I would not support them now,but I do hear good about the Salvation Army.

[sundog]

C-man, my respect for you just went a notch. The ARC gets NOTHING. This includes no pledge to United Way. We have united way T-shirt days at work and I will wear my standard white shirt and tie when everyone else comes in jeans and their (pick a political compaign) designer t-shirt. They don't have a feakin' clue. I do. I won't wouldn't give them the ..., well, maybe I better quit here. Salvation Army gets LOTS of 'empty my change in the pot' at Christmas time. Lots. sundog

[Bret4207]

Joe wrote-

"Insurrections?

Like Tienimen Square? Hungary 1956? Czechoslovakia 1968? "use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S."



Funny damned thing to me, is the fact that the very act of Revolution used to put the US Government in control is outlawed by the same! Even worse, is the fact that the troops WILL fire upon the citizens. They shot WW1 vets protesting for lack of work under the orders of MacArthur who was a colonel or some **** at the time. The Army has always taught the troops that Unions are RED organizations and need to be destroyed....uh hmm. Now that the RED Meanace is gone, I wonder what ruse is used to brainwash the troops into believing the Generals are infallible?

I fear that what we have believed as the imposible is coming true. Our Society is crumbling before our eyes like the Roman Empire "


Joe- In the words of Magaret Thatcher , "This is no time to go wobbly..." In addition to the examples you gave you can add Union troops firing on Confederate troops. That is why the law is on the books. Insurrection as in, say, 500,000 Mexicanos ( or whatever the term they use to describe themselves is) attempting to seize southern California, Arizona and New Mexico. They may well be American citizens, but it's surely an insurrection. Or maybe a bunch of NASCAR fan, good ol southern type boys decide to re-fight the War between the States, Insurrection. Or Osama's deep plants, who may be American citizens, attempt to seize Rhode Island. Send in the Troops. Or 100,000 tofu eating enviromental types decide Oregon should be a Communist state run by Ben and Jerry. Insurection. And lets not forget that the Federalist papers note that the 2nd Amendment was added with the thought that citizens might one day need to rebel against a corrupt Gov't. So yes, the very Gov't formed by insurrection forbids it, but the Constitution has that nifty loophole.

Yes, the very idea is terrifying. Never the less should terrorists or whatever attempt to seize control of the Government or some such thing, the authority needs to be there to use Troops on American soil against whomever is involved. After Kent State and the debacle on the border involving US Marines and some wetbacks, not to mention the siege at Waco, which some say involved US Troops, the line at which this act would be used is very clear and very, very dangerous to cross. Mention Kent State and the Nixon administration comes to mind. It's not something to be used on a whim, although I wonder how much thought some politicians give to their actions.

Oddly enough when the NYSP was created there was specific clause stating we could NOT be used within an incorporated city with a request from thr Mayor. This was to quell fears that we would be nothing more than State employed strike breakers. We did break a few strikes as it happens. See the movie "Ironweed" with Jack Nicholson. One of my friends is one of the Troopers charging the crowd. He's long retired, but the irony of having real NYSP Troopers playing Troopers in the film in which they were more or less bad guys is not lost on me.

As for the "Army" being indoctrinated that unions are "reds", well I served during the cold war and I never heard anything like that. The only brainwashing was to convince us that being a Marine was something to be proud of and that defending the USA was worth dying for. It was made quite clear that an illegal act was not a valid order. IOW-if the General says rape that little girl, it's OK to say, "No sir".

As for our society crumbling: You JUST noticed?

Keep the faith brother Joe, youse still gots us guys! (BTW- I'm playing my new Johnny Rivers, Marty Robbins and Statler Brothers CD's while Rome burns)

[beagle]

sundog and the rest of you.....me and sundog have been there and done that with United Way. As sergeant majors we were forced into that role by the Army to try and get the troops to donate money when their fund drive came around. As a result, I've had the big United Way meetings and have had the opportunities to sit down face to face with the leadership of charitable organizations and ask the embarrasing questions that their leadership don't like. As in: How is the money divied up? How much of the money given gets down to who needs it? Hard to answer questions by leadership who uses disasters to raise money to maintain an orgainzation that supposedly does good in name but really doesn't and wants to feather their on nest during times of disaster. Boys, it's a racket and I'm here to tell you that.

In reality, the president is bound legally hand and foot unless help is requested by a state government and then he has to ask permission of congress. Then he can dump a combined task force in there and get things done in a military manner. Up to that time, it's up to the govenor and his national guard. Yeah, I said "his" because the National Guard is owned and funded by the state with additional funding (mostly in the way of equipment) by the federal government. The govenor of a state is the commanding general of the national guard of a state.

So, based on this, these bottom feeding news people and liberal politicians and black caucus guys that are pointing fingers at GW better back off and look at the legalities of things and see what really happened before they put their mouth in gear and step on their swantz.

Looks to me like the govenors of both states got caught with their pants down and didn't know how to act.

That's enouough of that drivel./beagle

C-man, my respect for you just went a notch. The ARC gets NOTHING. This includes no pledge to United Way. We have united way T-shirt days at work and I will wear my standard white shirt and tie when everyone else comes in jeans and their (pick a political compaign) designer t-shirt. They don't have a feakin' clue. I do. I won't wouldn't give them the ..., well, maybe I better quit here. Salvation Army gets LOTS of 'empty my change in the pot' at Christmas time. Lots. sundog

[Scrounger]

[QUOTE=Tpr. Bret]Joe wrote-

"Insurrections?

Like Tienimen Square? Hungary 1956? Czechoslovakia 1968? "use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S."
Funny damned thing to me, is the fact that the very act of Revolution used to put the US Government in control is outlawed by the same! Even worse, is the fact that the troops WILL fire upon the citizens. They shot WW1 vets protesting for lack of work under the orders of MacArthur who was a colonel or some **** at the time. The Army has always taught the troops that Unions are RED organizations and need to be destroyed....uh hmm. Now that the RED Meanace is gone, I wonder what ruse is used to brainwash the troops into believing the Generals are infallible? (Quote)

I believe MacArthur was a Major General and possibly the Chief of Staff; Eisenhower was a Major and his Adjutant. I have seen photos of the two of them together watching the battle against Cox's Army.

[Jumptrap]

[QUOTE=Tpr. Bret]Joe wrote-

"Insurrections?

Like Tienimen Square? Hungary 1956? Czechoslovakia 1968? "use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S."



Funny damned thing to me, is the fact that the very act of Revolution used to put the US Government in control is outlawed by the same! Even worse, is the fact that the troops WILL fire upon the citizens. They shot WW1 vets protesting for lack of work under the orders of MacArthur who was a colonel or some **** at the time.

Uh Bret.....I have got to come to Joe's rescue...he's innocent, it was me who said the above.

The folks under the Communist regimes were shot down for Insurrection. The day is coming when the American opublic will rise up and say we've had enough corruption and they/we too, shall be shot down for Insurrection.

The Govenor of Ohio Jim Rhodes called the weekend warriors onto the campus of Kent State:

Ohio Governor James A. Rhodes personally appears on campus and promises to use "every force possible" to maintain order. Rhodes denounces the protesters as worse than brownshirts and vows to keep the Guard in Kent "until we get rid of them." Why? Because they burnt down an ROTC building.

Dick Nixon had nothing to do with it.

In this same vein, the folks who held the Boston Tea Party, were Insurrectionists. Anybody who rises up against an unpopular Government policy can be branded as such.

I care not to refight the Civil War...we lost it once. But, if a person really cares to research what precipitated that war, you'll find it wasn't about a bunch of southern rednecks who hated Yankees. It had to do with States Rights and the representatives from several southern states had atteneded a conference and came home knowing that the Northern Industrialists were out to rewrite the laws and it would cripple the southern states ability to produce their goods. So, the various state legislatures said to hell with it, we'll withdraw from the Union and start our own and call it a Confederation of States. Insurrection? Perhaps, but they were forced into it by economic pressures they couldn't abide.

It's time for a nap but first i have to watch the tube and see what's going on in NO this evening.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Scrounger, You are correct on Gen. MacArthur and Maj. Eisenhower. Also participating was Maj. Geroge S. Patton, Jr. (See "Unintended Consequences by John Ross, p. 27.) BTW, anybody know about a survey of members of the services, within the last ten years, as to their willingness to fire on American civilians? The version I heard was that only the USMC said that they would not. Is this an urban legend?

[Buckshot]

..........Curmudgeon, it has been several years, but I know what it is you're asking about. There was a Navy Lt Cdr doing some kind of research paper. I don't recall the provinence of the paper, it's further use, who made up the questions etc. Nor do I recall if it was a personal deal or at the request of some military organization. I remember that some of the questions had to do with military policing of civilians in scenarios I cannot recall to post.

The gist was would you fire into civilians demonstrating or protesting (something along those lines) if ordered to, and the answers by the troops was a resounding no.

..............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Jump/Joe?? whoever- You missed my point. I know troops have been used, and in most cases it went badly, and I know it's the Governors who sent them in to Kent state, etc. The point I was trying to make was that the possee comitatus law exists to defend the country against insurrection because without there would be no "legal" way to use troops without violating the Constitution. It's a darned scary thought that it would come to that. A Governor sending in the State Guard to restore order is always a chancy thing. The rules of engagement are real different between MIlitary and Police. Having been in what some would call "riots" I can say first hand that things can go bad real quick. A scared 19 year old Guardsman is apt to do something foolish and everlasting in that situation. But, you can't let the mob rule or things really go to ####. Should there someday be a "revolution", and I can almost see it happening although maybe not for the same reasons everyone else can, the choice to use troops will come at sometime. If the "revolt" is clearly headed up by right thinking, patriotic Americans who just want to feed their families and keep their homes and a corrupt Gov't is the obvious cause of the problem ( The Revolutionary War give or take) then there would probably be a lot of military men and women putting themselves in harms way by saying "No". In a more realistic senario if a group of say 350,000 people, you choose the cause/ethnicity/religion/what ever, attempts to seize control of the legally elected Gov't of an area/state/nation then would it be wrong to expect the military to hold to their oath and defend the Country against insurrection? These are really scenarios we will probably never see, but thats why the law exists.

As for the War between the States, I understand my ancestors that were in the US at the time fought for the Unon. Knowing my family tree a bit, they probably signed up for the free booze they were offered as an enlistment bonus. In hindsight, except for the slavery issue for which I could never give my support, I might have been a southern sympathizer. I've done a bit of research on the war and what brought it about. Economic nescessity, States rights, the thought at the time that a mans property was sacred. As much as I admire some of what Lincoln did he also broke laws and set precedents that set the course for more laws and rights to be abolished. William Saffire wrote an extremely long, rather boring book about it that I continue to struggle through from time to time. I understand WHY Lincoln did what he did, but it doesn't mean it was right then or even now. But, in the long run better the Union survived. Too bad the States rights were so grossly erroded though. Still Lincolns injustices pale in comparison with FDR's. Another example of unintended (I hope) consequenses. Even my hero Teddy Roosevelt (the Good Cousin) pushed a few barriers here and there. I suppose thats why we should put some thought into who we vote for.

As for Kent State, the Nixon admistration gets the blame in the history books, at least the ones I've seen lately. But, Nixon gets blamed for a lot of things. They seem to forget that he got us OUT of VN and that little jaunt to China and a bunch of other stuff he did. Yet, LBJ gets high marks and kudos for all the good deeds he did. Revisonist historys wonderful ain't it?

[9.3X62AL]

Having personally been on the ground for several days in a Los Angeles that resembled Sarajevo or Mogadishu--I am glad to see that attempts are being made to restore order in New Orleans. If someone has a better idea than sending in mutual aid state officers and National Guard militia personnel, I'd love to hear it.

[sundog]

Al, as you already know, and maybe some others do not simply because they have not experienced it, but there are not a lot of choices. The mere presence of ANY type of viable law enforcement or authoritative structure tends to subdue antisocial behavior. Here in Oklahoma, tornado alley, it is fairly common for the Governor to authorize use of National Guard units to assist in emergency situations. Really nice to have a 'community' asset - hometown folks helping hometown folks. On a scale of what Katrina has done it really tests the limit of what the individual states can do for themselves. In that, there's no reason why the fed shouldn't assist, but they must respond to the needs rather than dictate. After all, the infrustructure, owned by us, should be responsive to us. Rather idealic thnking, in some cases, huh? sundog

One other thought. Dubya is not a Saint, but he is a fairly good leader, like him or not, and somewhat of a visionary (good trait in a leader). He has been saying for a long time that home grown organizations, such as churches and charitys, should be the first responders to peoples needs, not the fed. Of course, in an emergency of this magnitude ALL resources available should be brought to bear.

[Scrounger]

Having personally been on the ground for several days in a Los Angeles that resembled Sarajevo or Mogadishu--I am glad to see that attempts are being made to restore order in New Orleans. If someone has a better idea than sending in mutual aid state officers and National Guard militia personnel, I'd love to hear it.

Send in the Redneck Brigade

[Jumptrap]

How about we send in Jumptrap and 10,000 similarly inclined volunteers?

No need in sending me.

I'd not bother to go at all. I'd simply say, looks like you chimps..er chumps, are in a hell of a fix. Let'em kill each other, let'em live like animals.....it is apparent that in every city that as soon as the normal order is absent..chaos rules. No need in anybody pretending otherwise...we have a problem in this country and it centers around a particular race of people. Hide yourselves, cover your ears, shudder at the thought of facing the music.....but what is, IS.

Who incited the riots in Detroit, Watts, Montgomery, DeeCee......help me here, I can't possibly remember every town and burrough they have burnt to the ground.

Have any of you in your life recalled where folks in the white neighborhoods have burned their homes, looted the businesses, raped everything walking and then blamed the Government and all black people for being the reason they did it? Well, have you?

Do you know of any other race who perpetually blames another race for their plight in life? Do you know of any race of people who have been emancipated for 140 years, in the 20th century given all the other Rights dey was formerly denied, and STILL cry foul? Come on, tell us who they are?

Yes, we've got a problem in this country and bygod and all that is right, it is high time we face it and do something about it. But, no....it'll never happen. Too many Liberals and soul savers out there standing ready to shout folks like me down....and then loudly proclaim how rightly so they are.

For the record: A natural disaster.....if that is what you call a hurricane...struck land. The land it struck held a cesspool of civilization called New Orleans, La. The one thing New Orleans is famous for is a drunken street party called Mardi Gras....other than that, not a damned thing of note. It was built in a hole next to the sea. The inhabitants.....69% black, 28% white and 3% Hispanic were all told.....the **** is about to hit the fan..haul ass for high ground. I do not know what the racial numbers are that followed this advice, but it is apprent that those in the majority, stayed. Smart move. So, the **** did indeed hit the fan. So what is the response? Duh muddaf**kin gubmint needs to git down here and saves us. In the meantime, thse folks have decided to loot....that means steal...whatever they can put their hands on. Got a gun? Ain't no cops....so shoot at whatever you want...like dat hellichopper flyin up dar tryin to save our asses....you ebber shoot down a hellichopper?....man dat be sumptin to tells the chillins when you gets old. Also, all the poon you wants fo free and ain' nobiddy gonna stop yu.

The above is fact.....it's been on TV for the last week now. Houston's old Astrodome is full of what the Soopadome puked out. You watch and see, they'll tear the Superdome down.....not only was the roof damaged, but it is full lof human **** and the sight of murders and rape.

No sir, I wouldn't have sent anybody in there. I would have waited for the survivors to come out. When all the humans came out, I'd go in and shoot all the animals that remain...mostly 2 legged... and then bulldoze the sea wall and let it all wash out to sea.

[NVcurmudgeon]

My only experience with the local police being overwhelmed was in 1970 in Berkeley, CA. Other PDs and the CA Highway Patrol sent mutual aid, but still disorder, in a small part of the city, prevailed. Eventually, then-Governor Reagan sent National Guard troops to help restore order, as requested by city government. As one of the majority, I was delighted to see armored personnel carriers patroling our streets. Only the rioters viewed this as tyranical interference. IIRC, Governor Reagan was re-elected later that year.

[Bass Ackward]

I do solemnly swear, to defend the Constition of the United States, against all enemies, foreign .... and domestic.

[Scrounger]

No need in sending me.

I'd not bother to go at all. I'd simply say, looks like you chimps..er chumps, are in a hell of a fix. Let'em kill each other, let'em live like animals.....it is apparent that in every city that as soon as the normal order is absent..chaos rules. No need in anybody pretending otherwise...we have a problem in this country and it centers around a particular race of people. Hide yourselves, cover your ears, shudder at the thought of facing the music.....but what is, IS.

Who incited the riots in Detroit, Watts, Montgomery, DeeCee......help me here, I can't possibly remember every town and burrough they have burnt to the ground.

Have any of you in your life recalled where folks in the white neighborhoods have burned their homes, looted the businesses, raped everything walking and then blamed the Government and all black people for being the reason they did it? Well, have you?

Do you know of any other race who perpetually blames another race for their plight in life? Do you know of any race of people who have been emancipated for 140 years, in the 20th century given all the other Rights dey was formerly denied, and STILL cry foul? Come on, tell us who they are?

Yes, we've got a problem in this country and bygod and all that is right, it is high time we face it and do something about it. But, no....it'll never happen. Too many Liberals and soul savers out there standing ready to shout folks like me down....and then loudly proclaim how rightly so they are.

For the record: A natural disaster.....if that is what you call a hurricane...struck land. The land it struck held a cesspool of civilization called New Orleans, La. The one thing New Orleans is famous for is a drunken street party called Mardi Gras....other than that, not a damned thing of note. It was built in a hole next to the sea. The inhabitants.....69% black, 28% white and 3% Hispanic were all told.....the **** is about to hit the fan..haul ass for high ground. I do not know what the racial numbers are that followed this advice, but it is apprent that those in the majority, stayed. Smart move. So, the **** did indeed hit the fan. So what is the response? Duh muddaf**kin gubmint needs to git down here and saves us. In the meantime, thse folks have decided to loot....that means steal...whatever they can put their hands on. Got a gun? Ain't no cops....so shoot at whatever you want...like dat hellichopper flyin up dar tryin to save our asses....you ebber shoot down a hellichopper?....man dat be sumptin to tells the chillins when you gets old. Also, all the poon you wants fo free and ain' nobiddy gonna stop yu.

The above is fact.....it's been on TV for the last week now. Houston's old Astrodome is full of what the Soopadome puked out. You watch and see, they'll tear the Superdome down.....not only was the roof damaged, but it is full lof human **** and the sight of murders and rape.

No sir, I wouldn't have sent anybody in there. I would have waited for the survivors to come out. When all the humans came out, I'd go in and shoot all the animals that remain...mostly 2 legged... and then bulldoze the sea wall and let it all wash out to sea.

There's a thought: Seal them in with National Guard and air-drop them more guns and ammo...

[Scrounger]

Jump, if you want to run against Hillary in 2008, you got my vote. And you don't need to send me the $2 they usually pay...

[carpetman]

One group that has not complained and not revolted and protested about their constant discrimination are little people. They have been so peaceful,I don't know if dwarf or midget is an accepted term??? But the fed decided they would help their cause before they did start raising trouble. They built them little bitty houses that fit them. The light switches were not above their heads as in normal houses. The cabinets were at their working level. Everything fit them. To even make it a better deal,they didnt charge rent. They called them stay free mini pads.

[StarMetal]

Art....I hope you meant Guns & Ammo magazines!!!!!!!

Joe

[Scrounger]

One group that has not complained and not revolted and protested about their constant discrimination are little people. They have been so peaceful,I don't know if dwarf or midget is an accepted term??? But the fed decided they would help their cause before they did start raising trouble. They built them little bitty houses that fit them. The light switches were not above their heads as in normal houses. The cabinets were at their working level. Everything fit them. To even make it a better deal,they didnt charge rent. They called them stay free mini pads.

Ray, I am worried about your health. You don't have to stay up all night thinking up posts like this for us. Please go to bed and protect your health.

[Jumptrap]

Jump, if you want to run against Hillary in 2008, you got my vote. And you don't need to send me the $2 they usually pay...

Makes me wonder, who is the Republicans candidate next time around? I haven't noticed them grooming anybody. Sure as hell not Dick Cheney......i wouldn't vote for him on any account. I don't like the man.

I honestly feel the repub's are ready to hand the torch back across the aisle. If the Republican party had any intentions of setting up a new man...they would have dumped Cheney and groomed a likely VP for the race in 2008. That didn't happen.

Hillary will run, she won't get elected and probably not even nominated by the Dems if some powerful Senator decides to run....but her ugly mug will be posted everywhere begging votes.

I don't what the law says about a person holding the Presidential office....beyond 2 consecutive terms. If Bill was to run again, he'd get elected.

[Junior1942]

>I don't what the law says about a person holding the Presidential office....beyond 2 consecutive terms. If Bill was to run again, he'd get elected.

Hey, if you hear any news about Hillary running or Bill running again let me know so I can get some yard signs and bumper stickers.

[carpetman]

When Cassius Clay(He was Cassius Clay then and besides I cant spell Muhammed Ali)was refusing induction he stated something along the lines of not having anything against any Viet Namese--none had wronged him or called him a nigger. Does that mean he didn't like the people he went into the ring against? Wonder if Joe Frazier called him a nigger? Really,his point was a good one. A military person might be called on to fight against people they have no animosity whatsoever against. What Bass Akwards pointed out----Do solemnly swear to protect against all enemies foreign and domestic. I would have more animosity against a US citizen,here in the USA looting,burning,shooting at the authorities etc than I would against a foreigner doing that in their country. I would see more need to eliminate the problem,so that it doesn't happen again here than I would in some foreign country.

[grumble]

"Makes me wonder, who is the Republicans candidate next time around?"

Jump, it would seem that the two frontrunners now for the Repub nomination are Bill Frist, the Senate Majority Leader, and the Repub Gov of one of the yankee states, I can't remember which -- Mass? NJ?

More will come out of the woodwork as election season heats up.

One interesting Demo candidate is Bill Richardson, our Gov here in NM. I'm not inclined to compliment Demos, but he's been a damn good governor. As an hispanic, he will be an interesting candidate to watch, probably as a VP contender.

[grumble]

I think the handwriting is on the wall. By this time next year, probably sooner, the National Gov't will be the designated disaster response force. States will be removed from having much, if any, responsibility for major disasters.

So long as the national Gov't is being blamed for problems, they will assume the authority. Once again, states lose.

[carpetman]

Scrounger--Art,thanks for the concern. Not to worry--I take my nap nearly everyday. Main reason I get up to begin with is so I dont have to worry about sleeping through my nap and missing it. Sometimes my nap is too long and it does mess up my night and day cycle,but I sure aint going to set an alarm clock to straighten it out. Bladder is only alarm clock I use. Hear about the three old men discussing aging? First said 60 is bad,I can't pee. Second said that's nothing,I'm 70 and cant have a BM. Third said wait till you are 80. The other two inquired could he not pee or have BM? He said I pee and have BM every morning at 6:00. Other two asked whats so bad about that? He said I don't get up until 6:30.

[Scrounger]

Scrounger--Art,thanks for the concern. Not to worry--I take my nap nearly everyday. Main reason I get up to begin with is so I dont have to worry about sleeping through my nap and missing it. Sometimes my nap is too long and it does mess up my night and day cycle,but I sure aint going to set an alarm clock to straighten it out. Bladder is only alarm clock I use. Hear about the three old men discussing aging? First said 60 is bad,I can't pee. Second said that's nothing,I'm 70 and cant have a BM. Third said wait till you are 80. The other two inquired could he not pee or have BM? He said I pee and have BM every morning at 6:00. Other two asked whats so bad about that? He said I don't get up until 6:30.

You have another cycle? Does it have a soft seat and tires that won't go flat too? [smilie=2:

[grumble]

Here's a news article that explains a lot:

Gov. Kathleen Blanco: No State of Emergency
Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005 12:47 p.m. E
NEWSMAX.COM REMAINDER: click here ... <http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml>

Though her state has been devastated by Hurricane Katrina and thousands are believed dead in New Orleans, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco has yet to declare a state of emergency and refuses to cede authority over rescue efforts to the federal government.

"Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans," the Washington Post reported in Sunday editions.

Gov. Blanco's office rejected the request, the paper said - concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law.

The Louisiana Democrat has also failed to declare a state of emergency - in marked contrast to Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour and Alabama Gov. Bob Riley, who both issued emergency declarations before Hurricane Katrina struck.

State and federal officials also told the Post that Gov. Blanco did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday - more than 24 hours after breaches in New Orleans levee system had flooded the city and killed thousands...

[C1PNR]

I remember reading a short item about "Leadership" on an online bloggers site. Comparing NY 9/11 and Katrina, or Giuliani and Blanco. Point was he had it together and she doesn't. Item did say she had time to make a comeback, but needed to get started. She never will, but George and the Feds are already being blamed for her lack of leadership, so all is well with the left.

[carpetman]

I was watching Forrest Gump and there was a clip that got me wondering. It showed Gov George Wallace standing at the entrance to the Univ and National Guard troops ordering him to move aside. The troops were ordered there by Pres Kennedy. What about this Posse Comitaus? States rights? National Guard requested by govenor? Reckon Gov Wallace knew he was such a threat that he asked Kennedy to have the Guard there to remove him?

[Willbird]

Ya'al can say I'm dumb........but I say here and now on 9-4-05 that Condi Rice will be the repub. canditate for president, and she will win...................this disastor dovetails nicely with that prediction, who do the fascists (democrats) have to offer up against her ??

Also I will not send a penny to red cross after the 911 deal.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

We could do a lot worse than to have Dr. Rice in the White House.

[waksupi]

I've beat you to the punch. I announced Rice as candidate, two years ago on the local radio talk show. She is naive in some areas. That is why it is important for a president to surround thierselves with good people. The presidency is a beauty contest. The people who work for them, run the country. May they be smart enough, to select the right people.
Some people think that it will be an issue for a woman to run for the presidency. Not for me. I have worked with too many good women, who put men's managerial skills to shame. Not to mention, being harder workers. Some may make a point of her being colored. Sorry, I'm pretty much color blind. I looked into her record long ago. She is a very accomplished person, no matter what race or gender. Put her up head to head with Hillary? She would kick ass.
What some have failed to see with the previous Clinton administration, was the total disrespect, both for color or gender. My case in point, is Josyln Elders, Surgeon General of the US. It had to take considerable research to find someone who was both a woman, and colored to take the position, who was so totally unqualified to even take someones' temperature. Heaven help her patients, if she was actually a practicing doctor. You can have her, I wouldn't wanther. So much foolishness fell from her mouth, that no person could take her seriously. Remember kinder, gentler bullets?
Bill Clinton put someone totally unqualified in the position to embarrass
themselves, thier gender, and racial background. And the liberal media wouldn't come out and say, "The emporer has no cloths!" What a terrible embarrassment for the country.

[MOA Shooter]

We could do a lot worse than to have Dr. Rice in the White House.

This is true. Another Bush, the hood ornament that can't even read his lines right.

Before you start pimping for Ms Rice suggest finding out what you buying. She has NO chance whatsoever.


MOA.

[Bret4207]

I'm on vacation so I haven't been watching the news much. I'm appalled that the Gov won't declare a State of Emergency! So the Party is worth more than the people who elected them. Sad, sad. Of course the media will probably overlook that and blame it on Bush somehow. I'd think being President is a cruddy job. 50% of the country will always think you're wrong no matter what party you belong to, and if you're a Republican the media will attempt to convince the other 50% that they are wrong for supportting you.

Regardless of what some posts say, I'd love to see a Hillary/Condi match up. My money would be on Condi, especialy if we could get 4 or 5 debates. Hillary would blowup sooner or later and I doubt she's anywhere near as intelligent as Condi judging by what I've seen. I'll never forget Rick Lazio walking over to Hillary asking her to sign an agreement not to use negative campaigning. The look on her face was priceless. No idea what to do. Of course the media presented it as "he was in her space", yet totally ignored Gores walking into Bush's "space" during the first debate they had.

Actually I'd prefer a 3rd party candidate with an entire slate of Senators and Congressmen who's sole purpose would be term limits, fiscal accountability, out and out protectionism and returning power to the States. HAR! ( a little Jumptrap lingo there) That'll be the day.

[carpetman]

I wish Jerry Lewis would run---don't care which party. First Jewish president. I think he is honest and has done a huge service for mankind.

[KYCaster]

Actually I'd prefer a 3rd party candidate with an entire slate of Senators and Congressmen who's sole purpose would be term limits, fiscal accountability, out and out protectionism and returning power to the States. HAR! ( a little Jumptrap lingo there) That'll be the day.

Bret: That sounds exactly like the "Contract For America" my local congressman rode into office along with George I. The first thing to go was term limits("a congressman can't be effective until he's had some experience"). Fiscal accountability? Pork barrel projects and nepotism are alive and well("I will bring your tax dollars back here where they will do you some good"). Protectionism=NAFTA. Returning power to the states.....The Patriot Act("we need the tools to protect you").
A politicians sole purpose in life is to get elected. An incumbents purpose is to get reelected. Nothing else matters to them and everything they say and do is designed to either gain that goal or hide anything that may hurt their chances on election day.
Our political system will not allow an honest person to be elected to a national office. I just hope they don't screw up too badly in the next fifteen to twenty years. After that it won't matter much to me cause I know I won't get out of this world alive.

Jerry

[waksupi]

I just realized I'm as guilty as anyone else, but we are drifting perilously close to a political discussion again. Let's drift it some other direction.

[9.3X62AL]

Good advice, Ric. I don't relish being called a pimp.

[onceabull]

Gents;,the board does seem to have attracted a few "civil discourse challenged" posters recently... Onceabull

[Bret4207]

My apologies. I forgot the Candian Mess Rooles. So sex is out too huh?

[waksupi]

Bret, I can see being more lenient towards sex, as it doesn't generate into name calling as a rule. Besides, if Ray can't write about sheep, he'll go blind.

[Jumptrap]

Gents;,the board does seem to have attracted a few "civil discourse challenged" posters recently... Onceabull

there is a military designation for that very same thing. It's called;

Malignant orfice, asshole.

[nvbirdman]

I was wondering if anyone would mention Kent State. How about Ruby Ridge and Waco?

[MOA Shooter]

"I announced Rice as candidate, two years ago on the local radio talk show. She is naive in some areas" writes Waksupi.

Naive is the understatement of this century. Boils to one primary character issue with the witch. She's dum enough to think her knows it all.

She's nothing more than the "rights" trophy black. They dumped a good man in Powell and are riding this wench. "see look at us. We're integrated". [smilie=p:

MOA.

[MOA Shooter]

Bret, I can see being more lenient towards sex, as it doesn't generate into name calling as a rule. Besides, if Ray can't write about sheep, he'll go blind.


If the name calling applies to me using the word "pimping" I apologize. Just an adjective to accurately describe an activity. Not a noun to describe the poster. Sorry Dep Al if you took offense. That wasn't the intent.

Maybe someone could set up a date with 'Condi' for jumptrap. You could film it and sell it for her campaign fund. The explanation of all military terms and descriptions as the title. Don't forget the one "broom jockey". :roll:


MOA.

[Beau Cassidy]

The ARC gets NOTHING. This includes no pledge to United Way. We have united way T-shirt days at work and I will wear my standard white shirt and tie when everyone else comes in jeans and their (pick a political compaign) designer t-shirt. They don't have a feakin' clue. I do. I won't wouldn't give them the ..., well, maybe I better quit here. Salvation Army gets LOTS of 'empty my change in the pot' at Christmas time. Lots. sundog

Sundog,
OUTSTANDING!
My views exactly. I haven't heard hide nor hair of them since all of this started. I guess everyone at the United Way is on vacation spending all of the funds they collect from employees paychecks. Ha! They sure as hell don't get anything from me after that stuff a few years ago on what their head honch made. I have never seen them do anything other than ask for money. Having no formal dealings with the American Red Cross other than viewing them as a big conglomeration, I hold everyone's opinions here in high regards.

The Salvation Army- now those guys rock. When my apartment and most of my belonging got cought in a flash flood about 15 years ago when I didn't have a pot to pee in, they set up shop right in our parking lot. Not too fancy but they sure are a classy outfit. I wonder how many people are going to make their retirement on "disaster relief" funds?

Beau

[9.3X62AL]

MOA Shooter--

Yes, I don't relish references to pimping--and it was your comment that I objected to. Having dealt with real pimps over a long cop career, there are few classes of criminal I have more antipathy for. Noun, adjective, gerund, whatever--I don't wear fur coats--drive an Escalade--or make a living from assignations, and I don't appreciate having an expression of opinion compared to a course of conduct for which I have reviling disgust.

In response to your comments made on Accurate Reloading board--there is a tone on this board that has evolved over time based on long-term correspondence, in-person meetings, and group gatherings for longer than the 7 years I've posted here. All boards have similar and differing characteristics of their own, and one of the good things about this group is the relative absence of "flame wars" and confrontive contacts. This may be because a large number of us are older--I don't know the "median age", but I suspect it is over 40 years. If you object to the absence of confrontation, then I respectfully suggest you find a more energetic place to visit that caters to whatever need for controversy you seem to crave--and come back here to actually learn some things about cast boolits. I suppose I'm one of those "regulars" you referred to rather derisively on AR, and that's fine. Please know that not a week goes by that I don't learn something of value from the posts on this board, and I've been here since 1998. No, correct that--the good information comes a lot more frequently than once a week for me.

NO, we collectively and individually DO NOT know it all. Boolit casting and firing of those castings is much more art than science, and anyone who has pursued the hobby in any depth learns quickly that accuracy and ballistic consistency is not a "given". There are rules of thumb--but there are far more exceptions to the rules than there are hard and fast "doctrines". Just understand that some truly knowledgeable people in the venues of ballistics, metallurgy, chemistry, and other firearm-associated career fields have found a home here.....and if a few of them have filled your PM box, they might have some good reasons to do so. If you still had a PM box, I would have sent one myself after that "pimping" bit of yours. In absence of resort to a private response, I am limited to this public posting--and your apology is accepted. Thank you.

[bravokilo]

MOA Shooter wrote "If the name calling applies to me using the word "pimping" I apologize. Just an adjective to accurately describe an activity. Not a noun to describe the poster. Sorry Dep Al if you took offense. That wasn't the intent."

Bull!! After the second or third apology they start to sound a little weak. I believe you meant it exactly the way it was taken. I believe Will Rogers said "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging". I have always thought that was a pretty simple concept to grasp. Apparently not for everybody.

You seem to have a problem with other members being able to post things you can't. Could it be that they have been here a little longer and have earned a little latitude? Can't be!!! That wouldn't be fair!! Didn't your mother teach you when you were a wee lad that life isn't fair? Or could it be that they don't generally use terms like "fat a$$" and "pimping" when refering to other members?

In regards to PM's, it is not "chicken$hit" as you put it. It is being polite by not subjecting other members to it and not wasting bandwidth on it. Apparently courtesy is another area where your education is lacking.

You seem to forget you are a GUEST here. If you don't like the rules of the the house, you are free to LEAVE! If you choose to do so, don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out. We wouldn't want you bruise anything.

BK