smooth boolits?????

[Freightman]

Ok I am going to ask! do you really need the groves on a boolit if you use powder coat? curious!

[popper]

Aussies have been shooting pistol with out grooves, haven't gotten my 30 cal almost grooveless mould yet. Probably a month before I get results. My 9mm almost grooveless works fine. IMHO a grooveless 223 would do fine, add some weight & strength.

[Freightman]

got an old lee single I think I will try

[sparky45]

There's a guy on the Hi Tek part of this thread that had a machinist remove the "lube grooves" on his lee mold, I believe it was 9mm and he shoots a ton of em.

[dverna]

There's a guy on the Hi Tek part of this thread that had a machinist remove the "lube grooves" on his lee mold, I believe it was 9mm and he shoots a ton of em.

I think it was Gunoil and it was a .380 bullet.

Paper patch works without grooves. It suggests that grooves may not be needed for coated bullets.

Don Verna

[bangerjim]

If you use a tumble lube LEE mold, by the time you spray once or DT twice, you have pretty much filled in all the microgrooves anyway. Why bother messing around with a special mold?

All my TL molds fill in until they are almost smooth coming out of the sizing die.

banger

[popper]

Banger - true but it doesn't add any real load bearing to the boolit. The TL grooves should come out with some 600 paper easily.

[Hardline]

97282

Bullets without the grooves work great! We we're getting the same groupings as the store bought swaged bullets we compared them too.

[Freightman]

we shall see what am I going to lose think the mold cost me $10 15 years ago.

[bangerjim]

Banger - true but it doesn't add any real load bearing to the boolit. The TL grooves should come out with some 600 paper easily.

I am happy with my standard and TL groove slugs with the PC I am now getting. If someday I want to "ruin" one of my TL molds, I will just put in the mill and bore the grooves out. No big whoop.

banger.

[Hardline]

If you modify the mold, do it on nothing less than a mill and make sure it's indicated in perfectly. A few tenths of a thousandth is visible on a cast bullet, but being off a little usually covers with the powder coat and sizes out. My mold was made without lube grooves to start with and it hasn't hurt.

[pal82]

Never seen a lube groove on a jacketed bullet. I would consider powder coating more of a polymer jacket than a bullet lube.

Oh oh oh, I just coined a new term! I did a Google search and got: [No results found for "full polymer jacketed bullets".]
From this day forward they will be called FPJ bullets. :drinks:

[bangerjim]

If you modify the mold, do it on nothing less than a mill and make sure it's indicated in perfectly. A few tenths of a thousandth is visible on a cast bullet, but being off a little usually covers with the powder coat and sizes out. My mold was made without lube grooves to start with and it hasn't hurt.

I have a full machine shop and the skills to effectively and accurately use the many tools I have. But I have no interest in milling out any of my molds. If I want one with straight sides, I will purchase it.

Thanks.

banger

[Hang Fire]

If the no groove boolits pan out better than grooved ones, I am sure mold group buys can be easily arranged for. Mold makers would likely be most pleased if they did not have to make cheeries.

[HDS]

I might remove all the grooves and GC shank on my surplus 75gr 223 mold... At least on some cavities.

[Maximumbob54]

I thought about this for a while and started to find a group buy on a smooth sided mold only to realize I was just searching for a way to spend money again.

[Hardline]

If someone wants to do a side by side comparison, I have a 230 gr. RN .45 mold and 115 gr. RN 9mm mold I'll borrow.

[sparky45]

I think it was Gunoil and it was a .380 bullet.

Paper patch works without grooves. It suggests that grooves may not be needed for coated bullets.

Don Verna
Thanks for the correction, however, it is a 9mm bullet that he shoots in his .380, at least that's how he explained it to me.

[popper]

HDS - I'd leave the GC shank on em. The lube & crimp groove are the weak spot, will collapse (slump) before the body. Could mean you can push the same alloy a little harder. Don't see any other advantage to us, maybe they drop easier, less CNC programming & QC work.

[HDS]

What about accuracy if you don't use a gas check but keep the shank?

[popper]

HDS - doing an experiment on that. So far the results are: RD311 180gr FB, 15 gr 2400 - shotgun group, ESPC. RD311 180gr sans GC, 15 gr 2400 - 4" @ 50, ESPC. 31-165 sans check 15 gr 2400 ~1" @ 50, TLPC, > 1400 fps. 31-165 sans check 16 gr 2400 ~3" @ 100, TLPC, ~ 1600 fps?. Same alloy in all, does MOA in GC'd 308 @ 2400 fps. The RD has a much smaller rear drive band. Removing the L.G. will make the rear band stronger & the band is a better base than the FB could ever be, at least that's my theory. Have a grooveless mould coming to test. Goal is 1800 fps, MOA without GC in Marlin 30/30 & AR-308 (single shot mode).

[Freightman]

Well I did it took the groves out of an old LEE single cavity 170gr .309 mold that I haven't used for years. Cast up 20 and sized and PC'ed them and loaded them. four different powder loads, now have to wait till I get to the range to see how they work in my 03A3 30-06. The boolits came out at 187.5 gr

[donhuff]

It's pretty simple to take the grooves out with a chucking reamer in a drill press to keep it straight. I get my reamers from ebay or Drills and Cutters. Easy way to enlarge a mold that drops a little small too. Don't use the drill press motor, use a pair of vice grips and turn the reamer by hand to avoid chatter of the cutter. Stop shy of the crimp groove or take it out too, and use a taper crimp.
97659

[bmiller]

It's pretty simple to take the grooves out with a chucking reamer in a drill press to keep it straight. I get my reamers from ebay or Drills and Cutters. Easy way to enlarge a mold that drops a little small too. Don't use the drill press motor, use a pair of vice grips and turn the reamer by hand to avoid chatter of the cutter. Stop shy of the crimp groove or take it out too, and use a taper crimp.
97659

Could you post a pic of your reamer?

[donhuff]

OK
97665

you can get them in almost any size you want from http://drillsandcutters.com/reamers_chucking_decimal.aspx

the bottom one is from a stach that my son "borrowed" from a former employer 10 years ago. It's a 7/16th (.437") which works just right for a 44 mag bullet. It's a little big but sizes down just right. I have about 10 of those reamers!

[donhuff]

I guess I should say that the bullet on the left is a Lyman 454424, and the one on the right is a Lee 44-310 that I milled off the gas check shank to make a 270g flat base. Then I took the grooves out to make it a 275g "slick sided" mold.

[xacex]

Donhuff,

Did you see any difference in accuracy going this route?

[donhuff]

Nope, same as always with the SWC, good to very good.

But that RF is another story. I have never got it to shoot worth a dern. I thought that it was just too heavy and had to be shot pretty fast, That's why I cut it down to 265g. But that did nothing. Then I reamed it out mostly just to make it bigger so I could try sizing it a little larger....Nothing!
BUT... man does it drop from the mold easy without any grooves! If the meplat edge was rounded a tad it would be perfect.

I know it's probably something I'm doing, but I hate I wasted time and money on that thing. I prefer Keith type SWCs anyway.

[Hardline]

Nope, same as always with the SWC, good to very good.

But that RF is another story. I have never got it to shoot worth a dern. I thought that it was just too heavy and had to be shot pretty fast, That's why I cut it down to 265g. But that did nothing. Then I reamed it out mostly just to make it bigger so I could try sizing it a little larger....Nothing!
BUT... man does it drop from the mold easy without any grooves! If the meplat edge was rounded a tad it would be perfect.

I know it's probably something I'm doing, but I hate I wasted time and money on that thing. I prefer Keith type SWCs anyway.

They never come close to sticking. You eliminate, all the spots where they can stick by getting rid of the grease groove. A larger seamless driving band can't hurt, but it's hard to improve on a lot of the good cast bullet designs for accuracy. Also if you can get one in a bevel base it's the way to go because the powder coat doesn't flare out around the bottom.

[Hardline]

It's pretty simple to take the grooves out with a chucking reamer in a drill press to keep it straight. I get my reamers from ebay or Drills and Cutters. Easy way to enlarge a mold that drops a little small too. Don't use the drill press motor, use a pair of vice grips and turn the reamer by hand to avoid chatter of the cutter. Stop shy of the crimp groove or take it out too, and use a taper crimp.
97659

If someone else tries this another tip is to have the reamer sticking out as much as possible. It will flex somewhat and help follow the hole that's already there which is what you want. If you grab it right by the reamer head it acts more like a boring bar and you have to be dead on.