Boolit Mold Suggestion

[Ironduke]

Gents:

I recently realized I don't get to shoot like I used to, and I don't suppose I ever will again. Too many obligations. Plus, the cost of components is too high these days. My wife and I are dedicated to becoming debt free, and now I have an allowance. Well a pound of powder can cost up to 1/3 of my months allowance!! A box of 50 J bullets can cost 1/3-2/3 of my allowance. I recently looked into selling one of my big boomers (AKA expensive to feed rifle), but it didn't sell. I really like this rifle, and I guess I will keep it, if I can find a good mold so I can feed it hard cast boolits.

The rifle in question is chambered in 458 Lott, so I can also shoot 458 Win mag through it. Since I will only be shooting the occasional hog with the rifle, I don't need full house spec loads, 500 gr boolit at 2300. So I am looking for a boolit mold in the 350-400 gr range. I wouldn't mind a HP design. I'd prefer a two cavity mold, but I understand a HP mold would be a single cavity in all likelihood.

My casting thus far has been mostly the 1 oz Lee drive key slug with some experience with the Lee 230 309 BLK mold. The slug does not require sizing of course, and I have a Lee push through size die for the 300 blk boolits, and those are tumble lubed. basically what I am saying is I would also need a lube sizer for any lube grove type boolit. I would like recommendations on one of those as well.

Any help will be appreciated.

[country gent]

As to bullet selection Im not sure any bullet in that wieght range should work. The bullets can be hollow pointed in a fixture also. Lubing you can aways pan lube and then the lee sizer will work in your press same as your 309 lee bullets. I would be looking at a 405 grn bullets. Possibly buy a few cast and test them first then order the mold for that bullet.

[Ironduke]

That's a good call. I have a Guide Gun also, so getting in the 400-405 range would work in that rifle too assuming the nose is flat and the crimp groove is located appropriately for the right 45-70 COL.

I have ordered cast boolits before for different guns, but how do you know if you order Boolit X from a given maker you can also get a mold that will duplicate that boolit?

For example, Midway has Cast performance 460 gr WFNGC in stock. This boolit would work in the 458 as well as the 45-70. but $32.99 per 50 makes them pretty expensive to me. And, if I decide this is the boolit for me, how do I get a mold to make this boolit for myself?

[Whiterabbit]

a good bullet is a good bullet, and you don't have to load a 500 grainer to full speed to enjoy shooting a 500 grain bullet. at the same token, you are a man on a budget, so no fancy custom brass molds, I'm guessing. I shoot a lot of heavy 45 cals and the best mold for you sadly is probably still out of budget (and not available anyways) and that is the ranch dog 460-425. It's a gas check mold anyways, and who wants to pay another $40 for 1000 gas checks just to stay shooting on the cheap?

No, for shooting on a budget with that big boomer, what you need is a LEE mold, and plain base. I suggest the 459-500-3R:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/214/214596.jpg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=QV4RXXjOTxVm2M&tbnid=j3rG0P-WPoSJuM:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-rNTMsBHZc-4%2FUS-Nyzm-3LI%2FAAAAAAAABEw%2F5hi1bU2NX8k%2Fs1600%2FWhitwort h%2BBullets%2B001.jpg&ei=UowDU9mBMKTR2QXHq4AQ&psig=AFQjCNGItZWez8hJOahpmcJpHgrl4SmjSw&ust=1392827858822905
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=b4YBuizPGOlbGM&tbnid=02nHkV2buRzxfM:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2F00%2Fs%2FMTI2OVg1 MDA%3D%2Fz%2FfRAAAMXQlgtStVoX%2F%24_35.JPG&ei=VowDU_PJIYn02gWyk4HoCQ&psig=AFQjCNEQI8A4ZJEZuafiz3e-coxOTLANmg&ust=1392827862598646

plain base, 500 grains, and given your game the low meplat or lack of a hollowpoint bothers me not-at-all. You can load light and cruise that guy along at low speeds. no gas checks to fool with. And molds cost 25 bucks which is in your budget. 2 cav, and move on in life.

and THAT is what I would do in your case.

but if you really think that is too heavy, check out the other lee offerings. They fit your budget and the designs seem to be conservative (aka they simply work.)

http://leeprecision.com/files/products/BulletMolds.jpg

[Ironduke]

That graphic is awesome. Why do they make the ones i am most interested in in .457? Don't i want .001 or.002 over bore diameter, not less? The 457-405 looks good, as does the 457-340. Why aren't they 459?

All of those use grease grooves, so now I need a sizer. I am not worried about the one time cost of a sizer so much since I will eventually have lots of molds. How do you buy the right top punches for the Lee boolits if you are using RCBS or Lyman lube/sizer?

[Whiterabbit]

my rifle likes tumble lube. so try that first. even on these bullets. or pan lube. Or just wipe the wax into the grooves by hand. I tell you what, if you get one of these molds and it works for you you give me a call and by God I will make you a kake cutter.

Don't worry about the size. cast a few and try it in the gun. if it really truly is too small, you can sandwich aluminum foil in the mold halves and get a bigger bullet. Or polish the cavities. there are techniques written here on cast boolits to make it happen. but you might find a given mold even at 457 will drop just fine for you.

[gefiltephish]

Would the 459-500-3R be too pointy for a lever gun? Also, check out NOE molds (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=monrvjbuo2tkmrsp9rv0rci697). May be priced high for your budget, but these can be had hp'd or not, gc'd or not, or various combinations. Save up if need be.

I have an NOE mold from a group buy that was designed specifically for the Marlin. I'm not at home so can't look at it right now, but I recall "big grease groove" being part of the description. The 460-405 may be it. Mine drops lighter than that though, around 390gr with my alloy, as I recall.

[Outpost75]

If you are serious about using cast in this rifle for hunting. I would urge you before you do anything else, to do a chamber cast of the "throat" or that portion ahead of the case mouth before the rifling starts.

THIS is the area where the bullet MUST fit. The groove diameter if the barrel does not matter. MANY .458 chambers are so large that you will; need a .460 to .462" bullet to fit.

You must also determine the BORE diameter across the tops of the lands left after the barrel is rifled.

The forepart of the bullet must be large enough in diameter that the bore-riding nose receives guidance from the rifling, otherwise in heavy loads, the bullet will slump and bend non-uniformly, which causes imbalance, and accuracy will be poor.

You do not need a hollow-point bullet unless you need to limit penetration, reduce risk of riccochet and can accept greater meat damage. For most North American hunting you will be well served by a 400-450 grain flat-nosed bullet with plain base, no harder than 12 BHN, at velocities from 1300-1600 fps. ~ ".45-70 Equivalent"

For hunting you DO want a flatnosed bullet with a meplat at least 0.66 of the bullet diameter, not less than 0.30" in a .458-.462 bullet. Larger than 0.7 of the meplat or about 0.32" "may" have feeding issues in bolt rifles, but this is not a factor in break-open guns.

If you want to reduce recoil, a lighter 400-grain or so bullet is OK, but I would not go any lighter, because the .458 Win. and the Lott both have very long throats dimensioned for 500-grain bullets, and with a shorter bullet of less than 400 grains the base will clear the cast mouth before the fore-part of the bullets begins to engage the rifling, which is no good for a variety of reasons.

Best this is to get the chamber cast and measure it. Then buy a custom-fit mold made to exactly fit your rifle, not a cookie cutter mass-produced design. Do your homework and look at Accurate, Mountain Molds, LBT or others who can tweak one exactly for you. You will save money in the long run in doing it right the first time, rather than spending several hundred dollars on mass produced molds which don't work, thereby frustrating yourself.

In my experience loading for the .458 Win. you can get good .45-70 performance using COWW as-cast, in .460" or so diameter, unsized, 12BHN, tumbling in Lee Liquid Alox, using 13-15 grains of almost any fast-burning pistol or shotgun powder you have lying around. Bullseye, 700X, Red Dot, Promo all work. No gaschecks needed, no filler needed. Just load and shoot. About 1300 fps with a 400 grain bullet. Easy on your shoulder and on the gun. A real ***** cat. Kills deer and boar too. You can load heavier for brontosaurus or T-Rex if you have them in your neighborhood.

[Whiterabbit]

For hunting you want a flatnosed bullet with a meplat at least 0.66 of the bullet diameter, or not less than 0.30" in a .459 bullet. Larger than 0.7 of the meplat or about 0.32" you "may" have feeding issues in some bolt rifles, but this is not a factor in break-open guns.


totally on board with you minus this. I am quite confident that it doesn't matter HOW small the meplat is on a 500 grain 45 cal bullet cruising along at whatever reduced velocity when loaded in a WM or Lott case, given pig is the game, I'm pretty sure it'll go down!

[Ironduke]

Here are some boolits I have loaded in the 45-70 and 458 Lott. These were from Ranger Rick's in Alaska, but he is no longer in biz. The 550 gr hard cast shoots wonderfully in my Marlin. The 720 gr is awesome at around 1900 in my 458 Lott. A bit of polishing the feed ramp made it feed smoothly from both sides of the magazine. The photo seems to indicate the 720 gr is a bit bulbous on the nose, but that's just the lighting or something. The front portion is cylindrical according to my caliper.

97102
From left: 550 gr WFNGC, 400 gr Speer FN for reference, 720 gr WFNGC.

If I could cast either of these boolits I's be fired up. I could seat the 550 gr out more and crimp in the grease groove if i had to. That boolit, btw is super hard- the ones I have recovered from my sand back stop could be loaded again if not for the embedded sand.

[grouch]

I'd say get the mold of your choice, Lee or otherwise. As long as you're not trying to really push it the liquid alox will work. Or you can hand lube with automotive grease if you're really on a budget. I use moly grease, and have had over 2500fps in a 30 06 without fouling(also without stellar accuracy). You can use the same Lee sizer with the conventional grooved bullets as with the tumble lube bullets. It does as good a job as any. If it's a hard push, use 20:1 lead and tin instead of the antimonial alloys(wheel weights for example).
Best of luck with this, I started casting my own about 50yrs ago and have never looked back.
Grouch

[Ironduke]

You can use the same Lee sizer with the conventional grooved bullets as with the tumble lube bullets. It does as good a job as any. If it's a hard push, use 20:1 lead and tin instead of the antimonial alloys(wheel weights for example).
Grouch

So in this scenario, if I had a boolit with lube grooves, I'd fill the grooves with grease then push it through the Lee sizer? Or if I had something like a harder beeswax type, I could apply it using the Lee push through? This could be good for me, but I need to know more about how to do it. I use the Lee push through die for the tumble lube type boolit I have, but I do not see any method of applying lube to the grooves with it.

Or maybe I apply the thicker lube in a warmer state so i can manipulate it, push it through, and let it cool to its natural harder state?

[Blammer]

look into pan lubing, easy and CHEAP and then get a pushthrough sizer, should be set sorry no suggestions on a mould to get.

[Ironduke]

Pan lubing is the answer to my issues! Thanks. i watched a quick video that Larry from Midway has on YouTube. He plucks his boolits from the cool lube with pliers, but I would think the whole wax base with boolits would pop right out of the pan allowing you to punch the bullets out from the rear. This way pliers won't damage your boolits. Then you could just pop the cool lube back into the pan for the next batch. Easy peasy!!

[Whiterabbit]

kake cutter

[StrawHat]

I started reloading, not on a budget, but without a lot of money. Lee molds, the despised one and two cavity style were my friends because the were in my price range. I loaded for the 45-70 and used the Lee 457-450 grain FN, it worked well and any casting issues were easily rectified. I also got the 330 grain, the 405 soild base and the 500 grain FN molds but generally used the 450 most.

I have since moved on to other makers, but the Lee molds still get used when appropriate. If you have any questions, we can help.

[dondiego]

Ironduke - I have shot many lube groove boolits using Lee Liquid Alox and a push through die. Just because it is a lube groove boolit does not mean that you can't tumble lube it. Try it! I doubt that you will even need to size the boolit at all as it comes from the mold either.

[snuffy]

Ironduke, get past the idea that you HAVE to have lube grooves filled with some sort of lube, you do NOT. You can get by with plain Lee Liquid Alox, LLA. You will need to do 2 coats, the first applied as-cast, then sized, the second coat applied then loaded.

The LLA will be tacky even after many days of drying. Recluse 45-45-10 mix of 45% LLA, 45% Johnson's paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits, is a better tumble lube, it drys non-tacky and lubricates better. Simple to make,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free

Or you can order some from Lars at white lable lubes.

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

Lee molds tend to be oversize, bigger than what they are supposed to be. So the .457 mold may well cast @ .459.

I have a group buy Lee 6 cavity mold for 47-70, it's a 420 grain flatnosed mold that was made specifically to feed well through a lever gun. I use it for my 45-70 NEF buffalo classic single shot. I'd be happy to send you some to tryout. The ones I have cast are of fairly hard alloy, range lead, they are 411 grains. They cast at .462, so I could send them unsized or, I can size and lube with carnuba red to .458 or .459.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?29062-Re-run-the-462420-PB-45-70-420gr&highlight=

Problem is that mold is a special run from a group buy. I MAY be interested in selling it, as I don't shoot that cannon much any more. It's hurtful and my arthur ite us is getting worse. Let me know if you'd want some of those boolits, shoot me a PM with your addy.

[grouch]

Iron Duke, I wipe the boolits with a greasy/oily paper towel and push them through the sizer. Makes for an easier push. Then seat the boolits onto the bottom driving band(or on the gas check if it's a gas check mold), fill the grooves with grease, seat the bullet to the desired depth and wipe off whatever grease is exposed. Quicker and easier than it sounds, and you can put grease anywhere on the bullet you want it.
Grouch

[snuffy]

Here's a pic of the boolits I'm sending to ironduke.

97262

If they work, I will sell the mold as well. Gotta go size the one I have cast, then get them in a small flat rate box.

[Whiterabbit]

nice, ranch dog mold?

[Wayne Smith]

No, if it is the one I have it is pre RD. I think 45 2.1 did the drawing and Lee finally did the cutting - it was one of the very early group buys,

[zuke]

I went from 500 to 450 to 350 to now a 330ge HP NOE mold.
Save's lead and the 5 cavity save's time.

[snuffy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?29062-Re-run-the-462420-PB-45-70-420gr&highlight=

Circa 04-2008/2009. It took forever to get it built and sent. The molds took just about exactly a year from inception to delivery. Other lee group buys took even longer. Now a wait for a MIHEC mold can be 1.5 years!

I don't know if Lee even does special order/group buys anymore??