Forming Brass

[1989toddm]

I dont know where else to put this so I'll put it here. I am intrigued by the forming of brass from one caliber into another. I am curious what different combos are possible. Also I am wondering if there is a section of the forum dedicated to this or where discussion of this is concentrated. Thanks! The wealth of information here and the stand up people here are certainly second to none.

[rockrat]

You can make 22-250 from 30-06 brass with alot of work, 44 caliber from 284 win and I have seen a pic of a 22 on a 50 bmg case. LOTS of things you can do. 223 to 6x45 or 6.5 tcu or 7mm tcu or 300 blackout. Too many combos to list here

[BruceB]

Big subject!

There are a couple of excellent books on the whys, hows, and wherefores of case forming. One is "Cartridge Conversions", an older book by George C. Nonte. Another is "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" by Ken Howell.

The latter is much newer, published in the '90s. It is a monster of a book, over 600 pages in 8.5x11 hardcover.... and expensive, if it can be found. Well worth the cost, however.

The topic is so large that no "general" answer will serve you very well. It would be better to research specific conversions that interest you, such as "Is it possible to make .45-70 cases from .460s?" (NO! It's not possible.)

Some case conversions are very simple, but others, usually for really obscure cartridges, can be very complicated and require heroic efforts to come up with workable cases.

I'd advise making inquiries in the appropriate forums such as:

-CB Loads/Military Rifles, or

-Factory Rifles, or

-Pistols, Revolvers and Hand-cannons

.... you get the idea.

Ask specific questions, and the friendly folks here will give you good guidance.

And, welcome to you.

[runfiverun]

as bruce mentioned there are a couple of good books on the subject.
some case reforming is really as simple as pushing the parent case into a sizing die then annealing and trimming.
others require a brass tube formed to the outside of another case, the rim trimmed, and/or a groove cut in front of the rim for the extractor.
a lathe is handy for much of this, quite often a hydraulic ram is used to make the forming feasible, and I have seen case shoulders bumped forward with water and a rod to displace the case into a longer one.

[Char-Gar]

Big subject!

There are a couple of excellent books on the whys, hows, and wherefores of case forming. One is "Cartridge Conversions", an older book by George C. Nonte. Another is "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" by Ken Howell.

The latter is much newer, published in the '90s. It is a monster of a book, over 600 pages in 8.5x11 hardcover.... and expensive, if it can be found. Well worth the cost, however.

The topic is so large that no "general" answer will serve you very well. It would be better to research specific conversions that interest you, such as "Is it possible to make .45-70 cases from .460s?" (NO! It's not possible.)

Some case conversions are very simple, but others, usually for really obscure cartridges, can be very complicated and require heroic efforts to come up with workable cases.

I'd advise making inquiries in the appropriate forums such as:

-CB Loads/Military Rifles, or

-Factory Rifles, or

-Pistols, Revolvers and Hand-cannons

.... you get the idea.

Ask specific questions, and the friendly folks here will give you good guidance.

And, welcome to you.

That is as good an answer as can be given to this inquiry.

[beagle]

I was about to suggest Nonte's book as that's a good place to start. But, it's so outdated now as to be almost useless. So much new technology now that the list of conversions is almost limitless. Fascinating subject and some of the old methods are still useful. Dig into it and you'll be surprised./beagle

[Teddy (punchie)]

Can be scary at first. You read all about different things to watch for and get to be over whelming to start,

I have 300 Ackley and have had to make 25/270 Imp Ackley gets interesting.

Boy I would love to have the 25/270, but different story. Top of line bullet heater there, light recoil and flat shooting rifle , heck of deer load. Never had chance to shoot a deer, barrel was gone. Old buddy pasted a I got reloading items and bought the 300.

[GRUMPA]

I was thinking about the same thing when it came to a section on case forming. I do a lot of that all the time and while the books are out there, things can be done a bit cheaper with something a bit more common.

Hydroforming: Not new by any means but the dies will take months to get and a small second mortgage might take place.

When it comes to case conversions it takes patience and a bit of skill in multiple disciplines. I've been doing conversion for years, not all but some and there's still those little things to learn along the way on some.

But when you find out something along the way your not exactly anxious to spread the word either. I came up with a shot load for the 300 Blackout just from the little here and little there that I learn from forming cases.

[scb]

This might give you an idea about the depth of the subject. Case forming is all this book is about.
96943

[stephenj]

case forming ... not as romantic as one would think .
more of a lesson in hard work and patience .

a person can use the 577-.450 as an object lesson when reforming from shotgun brass cases

[Maven]

Great replies, guys!

[1989toddm]

Yea I didn't realize how big the subject is! But I can't wait to get started. I'm starting with 300 BLK. Boy if there was a way to make 45/70 I would love to know! But I better get a book or two and read.

[GRUMPA]

A few pointers when forming the 300 Blackout.

ALWAYS.....use the same head stamp. There's details involved with mixing head stamps so don't do it.
ALWAYS.....use gages when forming those. I use the LEWilson when forming.
ALWAYS.....clean your brass first

[sixshot]

I remember an old article by Jim Carmichael back in the late 60's, early 70's where he was opening up a 308 case until it was a straight wall & then somehow slleving it inside with a cut off 223 case then necking it back down to 30 caliber. The object was to give it less case capacity for using cast bullets. Wish I could give a better discription of how he did it but can't find the article, I think it was in either Handloader or Rifle magazine.

Dick

[xs11jack]

Go to abebooks.com. put in John J. Donnelly in the author line and scoll down to the second book offered with his name as author, the price is $18.03 with $3.99 shipping.
Ole Jack

[firefly1957]

Personally i use 5.56/.223 to make .221 Fireball and .351 Winchester* ( the fireball needs a 7/32 reamer for the case neck) I also form 357-44 from 44 mag and .256 Winchester Mag from 357 mag.

*These feed and eject from my gun without the semirim but other have told me they have no luck. Another option i have not seen mentioned for .351 is the 5.45X 39 mm Russian round has the same cartridge head size but i have no idea if reloadable brass is available.

[SciFiJim]

We also have a great reference here on CastPics.

http://castpics.net/subsite/Conversions/default.html

[DLCTEX]

I am currently forming 22-243 from 243 for a friend for use in a rifle made by neighbor Mike Bryant.. This is pretty straight forward with no neck turning necessary. I have made 22-250 from 243 and had to turn the necks due to the thicker brass as you get lower on the case body.

[dtknowles]

I have three guns that I form cases for. A 25 Krag Ackley Improved, a 6mm PPC and a 30 BR. You can buy 6mm PPC cases now but I formed mine from .220 Russian and 7.62 x 39 mm. I have formed 7.62 x 25 from .223 just to see if I could in a pinch. I have forming dies for the three I do and I neck turn the 6mm and the 30 BR because they have tight chambers.

Tim

[Wayne Smith]

I started making 8mmx06 out of 30-06, made 40-70 out of 45-70, 10.5x47R from 9.5x47R, 9mm Makarov from 9mm Parabellum, and am making 25 Krag AI from 30-40 Krag. Hope to have that gun made this month.

[uscra112]

Don't try to make brass that you can buy. 'Tain't wutthit. (Little swamp yankee lingo thayuh.)

[xman777]

Go to abebooks.com. put in John J. Donnelly in the author line and scoll down to the second book offered with his name as author, the price is $18.03 with $3.99 shipping.
Ole Jack
Hamilton Books has it for under 10 bucks. I buy a lot of books there. Feel free to browse.

[facetious]

I was given 200 30-06 GI cases years a go that got cleaned up and put a way. A couple of years a go I turned 50 of them in to .308's just to see if I could make them work. Thy turned out to be some good cases and have been thinking of doing the rest of them and then marking them some how to keep them seperate and then using them just for cast. It made for a heavy walled case and I barely had to turn the necks to clean them up. It all so made it so I could fit it to get a better fit in the neck. I do not have the numbers here but I weighed a bunch of them to get a ave. and did the same to a bunch of factory cases to get a ave. and cut the starting loads by the percentage difference. I do not know if that is the right way to do it but it seamed to work OK and thy should last a long time shooting plinking loads.

[sav300]

218 bee reformed to 17 ackley bee is fun.Cases have to be annealed.

[dragon813gt]

Only cases I currently make are 300 Savage from 308. It's pretty much the easiest conversion to do. Depending on an auction I might be forming 358 Winchester from 308 as well. I have the John Donnelly book and quickly realized I don't have the tooling to make a good portion of the cartridges.

[Thin Man]

The easiest conversions involve starting with a readily available case, then making the neck either larger or smaller to fit the projectile diameter of your project. Then comes reshaping the web and rim area, setting back or creating a bottle neck shoulder, etc. We have learned over time how to accomplish many things in reforming brass cases. The fascination to experiment has led us to some genuine satisfaction (and a few disappointments) in cartridge experimentation. The wild cards in creating brass for obsolete or true wildcat calibers has been the big factories - they can surprise you with their newest offerings of either taking a wildcat cartridge and making a factory offering (35 Whelen) or offering a standard caliber that easily (almost) converts to your needed project (357 Sig to the Japanese 8mm Nambu). Just when you think you have found "new ground" to plow, with enough research you may learn what an old scribe once offered: there isn't anything being tried now that hasn't already been tried before. Could be true, thus the value of diligent research. All in all this is still a fascinating and enjoyable exercies, although occasionally frustrating to the end of your wits. Been there, done that.

Thin Man

[GRUMPA]

Alot of whats been said rings true to a lot of things regarding case conversions. I do have the book on cartridge conversions but even then things can be done a different way, generally cheaper with different brass. Like what was said already this whole thing isn't something new by any means.

If I were to add or change something as far as conversions go I would say that pretty much the only thing that has changed over the years is the technique involved.

[OeldeWolf]

Much of the general equipment could probably be made, and are rather like small, special purpose lathes. the Handloader's Guide to Cartridge Conversions shows a case trimmer that could undoubtedly adapted to turn rims and gut extractor grooves.