Thanks Buckshot & Swagerman

[creekwalker]

As most of you are already aware Cast Boolits isn’t your ordinary firearms forum, it has very knowleegable members willing to answer questions. Two in particular have take time form busy schedules to answer PM questions from me about my intention to start up in boolit swaging. They of course are Buckshot and Swagerman, I’m sure I’ll be asking others of you questions also so bear with me please.
FWIW I’ve decided to start out with swaging dies for a conventional O frame press, specifically my old and trusted RockChucker. I’ve purchased my first set a very nice older Herter’s Swageing die set for 38 Spl/357 Mag. Most likely I’ll purchase an additional set in a couple of weeks from CH4D in either 9mm or 45 ACP, still thinking about that though.
Now any of you that want to recommend some books for me to hunt up and purchase, by all means please let me know. Also should you wonder why I’ve chosen this initial means of swaging it was a simple cost anylisis evaluation as I knew I wanted to learn boolit swaging but also wanted to grow into the practice. Using the swaging dies I’ve selected I feel I can learn at a tolerable pace and still utilize the equipment I’m starting with later should I choose to go with other swaging set ups later.
So anyhow, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :mrgreen:Feel free to offer suggestions or recommendations folks as I intend to have a good time learning a new skill. Seems like it’ll dovetail nicely with my boolit casting corner.:-D

Creekwalker

[Swagerman]

Thanks, Creekwalker, for the kind words...but doubt I'm in the same class as Buckshot. He's a master machinest.

But I do get an idea from time to time, but asperin helps...been thinking of trying that HEAD-ON stuff. :mrgreen:

No matter what O-press you decide to use there is one aspect of the action on the presses ram & shellholder you should be aware of in bullet swaging.

You need to adjust the linkage bar and pin to create a shorter stroke in the up travel of that equipment. This may intell shortning the linkage bar and drilling a new pin attachment hole.

The Herter's Super O Maximum press has two positions on a linkage bar that attaches to the press handle to the ram. Its nearly the same on all O-presses that they have at least one hole linkage bar setup. And because of that it will not do well when trying to swage bullets.

You'll need to make this adjustment to the ram's height travel, so the bullet will have a break-free spot in its upward travel into the swage die body. Otherwise, you'll just be jamming the hell out of a lead bullet against the swaging die upper limit of cycle....it needs that break free point to top out in its upward travel.

You can adjust the swaging die in the press to help find that sweet spot, but most likely you'll still have to shorten the rams stroke to get good results.

For example, the Lee Classic cast iron press single stage press is ideal for me as it has a screw on and off shellholder. (see my picture of the shortening procedure)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC050006cropped416X.jpg

Was able to do this on my mini-lathe but the work is a bit crude but the principal of operation is pretty good...it works.

Then got a real brain fart and came up with the bullet auto eject system from the swaging die. This lead to the altering another Lee shellholder to take the Herters shellholders, which have nose punches that can be shanked through the primer hole, then threaded and a nut to hold it in place.

Thes Herter shellholders have excellent concintricity while shaping the bullets nose, or can have a flat base for pushing.

Then discoverd that the top of the cut-off Lee shellholder could have a round ring band tack weld underneath it so it could fit in the top of the bullet ejector apperatus, a hex set screw holds that in place.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC190006Bothbottombarscloseup.jpg

Top of Lee shellholder in station.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC210008Leecut-offshellholder490X.jpg

Hope this helps, maybe give you some pointers to get the swaging ball rolling...good luck in it. It is adictive, sort of like reloading and bullet casting.


Jim

[Adam10mm]

I'm going to start swaging on a RC press too. Probably for 45 auto or maybe 223. Looking at CH4D dies or possibly a set from RCE. Doing lots of reading in this subforum. All the metalwork/lathe stuff is way over my head. Always wanted to get a lathe but don't know the first thing about using them.

[Buckshot]

".................but doubt I'm in the same class as Buckshot. He's a master machinest."

Heh, heh, Right! I'm a legend in my own mind :-)

................Buckshot

[Swagerman]

Freakshow10mm, its pretty much way over my head too, this little mini-lathe I have does some small odd jobs but extremely limited due to the operator never got no book learning on it.

Knowing someone to get you started, who has practical skills operating such equipment would be a big help. Also, it doesn't hurt to have some decent larger size machinery to do the job.

Any trade schools where you live, there's none around here.

And Rick, (Buckshot) you are da man. :)

Jim

[Adam10mm]

Nope. No trade schools. There's a guy at work that knows a bit from a high school metal class. When I get the lathe I'll have him show me some stuff. I want to get one so I can thread stuff, ream chambers and cylinders.

[creekwalker]

Freak,

Like you I intend to purchase a lathe for my workshop and learn enough to do some small projects with it as well as learn to make swage dies. My public library has a number of books on the subject and I've already looked at some self study sites. Bottom line is doing something I've always wanted to and learning a new skill. Besides if I run into snags or problems I'll just pester poor ole Buckshot and Swagerman, who'll most likly refer me to others when needed. :o)...

Creekwalker

[Swagerman]

Well, you could try that Lathesmith, or Morgan gent with the derby hat. :mrgreen:

Pretty savvy hombres if ya ask me, pilgrim.

Jim

[454PB]

I learned both welding and running a lathe from a self taught old timer, enough to get me started and interested. I latter took some adult education (Votech) training in the evenings and found that his methods were mostly wrong.

I'm grateful for his help, but nothing beats professional training by a true machinest or welder.

As to what press will do swaging, my Rockchucker does .223 bullets just fine.

[hapi]

As to what press will do swaging, my Rockchucker does .223 bullets just fine.

whose dies are you using? what type of bullet are you making? lead tip, OT..etc


Thanks.

[454PB]

You should know, hapi, you replied to my post here:

http://reloaders.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=288

[hapi]

oopss. the wonders of a head cold. I can't think straight and it's been a week of "where the heck are my keys, wallet, phone, wife...." sorry im a *******

[garandsrus]

454PB,

Have you considered making your own die to produce the lead wire from some type of cast ingot? My thought is that a die that has an appropriately sized hole in the correct spot would spit out a bunch of lead wire in a hurry. I would use some type of hydraulic jack to apply the pressure...

Where do you get the lead wire?

Thanks,
John

[Buckshot]

oopss. the wonders of a head cold. I can't think straight and it's been a week of "where the heck are my keys, wallet, phone, wife...." sorry im a *******

................HA! Sounds like me and I don't need a head cold. I can walk into the kitchen and say, "What did I come in here for?".

..............Buckshot

[454PB]

454PB,

Have you considered making your own die to produce the lead wire from some type of cast ingot? My thought is that a die that has an appropriately sized hole in the correct spot would spit out a bunch of lead wire in a hurry. I would use some type of hydraulic jack to apply the pressure...

Where do you get the lead wire?

Thanks,
John

The lead wire was bought probably 15 years ago, and I don't recall where I got it. I found an ad in "The Handloader" magazine and mail ordered it. It is in 3 foot lengths, and the box contained 50 pounds. If you need the address, I'll look and see if it's still on the box. As you can imagine, 50 pounds of wire will make a lot of 55 grain bullets. If I live long enough, I might consider other ways of forming my own cores.

My die set came with a four core mould, but it's a PITA to use, and cut cores are much more uniform. I check weigh them at random and they seldom vary + or - a half grain. Even a difference of 2 or 3 grains really screws up the point form die, since the excess lead is squeezed around the ejection pin and ends up protruding from the bullet nose.

[Bent Ramrod]

I had the same experience as 454PB with my cast cores. It takes a while for all that metal to heat up on that Corbin mold, and very little lead (and heat) can be added at a time to those four little slug cavities. The sprue cutter has a good trough in it for lead, but it is a big piece of metal to heat.

I solved the problem by getting a core swage die from Corbin. By the time I bought the die, it cost as much as the entire .22 jacketed bullet kit had when I purchased it. But it sure does keep those weight variations to a minimum.

[pjh421]

As with your hand cast moulds, you could lay the core mould on a hot plate, adjusted to the correct temperature, to bring the mould up to casting temp and to maintain it. Lead wire and a core swage die is the way to go, though, because if you are going to the trouble to cast cores, you might as well just cast boolits instead.

Paul

[garandsrus]

Paul,

I bought about 50lbs of wire sized for .223. I also have the 4 cavity core mold, but haven't done much with it yet.

I need to make a core cutter!

John

[Buckshot]

................A core mould is a legitimate accessory. With lead wire and cutting to length you should still weigh them before swaging. Only thing with casting cores is you really should have a core bleed die. Instead of cutting and weighing each one, you cast and then swage each one to a consistant weight before forming.

...............Buckshot

[garandsrus]

Buckshot,

Do you make the core bleed dies? If so, please PM me with a price for a .223 die.

Thanks,
John

[georgeld]

Bu ckshot:
Those bleed dies. How thick is the top surface of the die over that cone bore??
I know it should be just a tiny hole, but, if it's very thick at the top the "lead wire" would be
pretty long wouldn't it? Do you pinch it off?
Then do you ram it into another pointer pocket die to smooth it up?

Thought on a D reamer, once the leading edge is dulled, run the lathe in reverse for a fresh cutting edge IF you've honed it too.

For a one, or two die, chamber those can't be beat.

MSC, ENCO, and Wholesale Tools, and I'm sure many others sell a great selection of tooling and steels fairly reasonable. The problem for me is. "my wants, exceed my needs".

It's so doggone easy to spend several hundred bucks there. Same as Midway.
I'd never desire to be rich, I'd just like to have enough to cover the checks I'd like to write!!