Generator Opinions

[762 shooter]

I survived the Eastern Ice Storm Of 2014. I have relatives near Orangeburg, SC that lost power Wednesday and still do not have electricity.

Two eighty year olds, two thirty year olds, 4 year old, 2 week old, and two 57 year olds. They are making it with two Generators. One for the TV, one for the water pump. They heat with wood and are doing fine.

I have a ancient pull start genny that sounds like a 747 taking off. I am thinking about upgrading to a quieter electric start when prices are low in the summer.

Any thoughts.

762

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have a Generac that gets used very seldom and another one in my motor home. I would keep the old one if it is working ok. About the only way I would get another generator is if I wanted to have a whole house one that came on by itself.

[Outpost75]

I have a Generac Guardian series, with solid state ATS controller and a 500-gallon LPG tank dedicated to it. I can run the whole house and the shop on it, a 20Kw job. Only way to go.

[starmac]

Quite a bit of info and opinions, from simple to elaborate in this thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?198915-generators

I would be happy to have the one someone stole last month back. lol I rented a 2000 honda last week, and it was a little small for my needs.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

2000!

[HarryT]

I also vote for the propane fueled generator. Nothing is worse than to need a gasoline powered tool and have it not crank. If you have a tractor, you can get a heavy duty generator that runs off the PTO.

[AlaskanGuy]

I personally love the small 1000 and 2000 series honda's for small jobs, but for household use, there is nothing like something that runs on diesel...

[starmac]

The little eu2000 I rented was a sweetheart and very handy. It sipped gas, which was nice too. It just isn't beeg enough for all my uses, the 4000 that was stolen was.

As far as gas vs propane, unless we are talking a stationary setup, I would 10 to one rather have gas or diesel. propane doesn't even want to work in cold temps. The heater I rented the eu2000 to run was a forced air propane heater, I had to put the tank in the cab of the pickup with the heater on, to use it at all, and it was only 20 below.

[John Allen]

I have a Generac 5500 with a manual transfer switch in the house. I went this route as it supplied enough power to keep the house powered if you are careful but does not use a lot of gas. We just lost power for a week in the ice storm and the generator used 9 gallons a day. I did not think that was unreasonable.

[mold maker]

I've had a Northern
tool 4000 for about 11 years. It's never failed to crank when needed. Last Ice storm about 2008 I moved it around to each of our (3) homes to keep essentials going. All had freezers indoors and 2 of us have gas heat.
It's worked to build a cabin, and for several outdoor activities.
Always make sure to drain the tank and run the carb dry when storing it.

[Beau Cassidy]

I recently got a good deal on a NIB Generac 17,7500 KW electric start generator. So far I have not had to use it. I am sticking with pure gas in it. Right now I don't have a way to plug it into the fusebox or meter. Not sure if I want to since I am just renting this house. If I build a house or buy one it will probably have a 20Kw propane backup generator- no fuel line corrosion and no carbs to clog up. I also have a small 3,500 Kw Generac also NIB. Haven't even taken out of the box yet.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

llon!

[HATCH]

I live in Lexington about 40 mins from orangeburg.
I plan to get a 10kw generator from SAMs club.
3 year extended warranty for under $1k

We never lost power here but others people I work with did.

[dragon813gt]

I have a 8kW portable. But when I redo my electric panel I'm putting in a natural gas generator on an automatic transfer switch. I'm out of town quite often and with a babby on the way I want to make sure my girl doesn't have to worry about doing anything if the power goes out.

[bhn22]

One thing to watch for in generators is the generators end housing. To save manufacturing costs, some companies are using plastic end housings. Coleman was probably the biggest offender in past years. There is s fundamental problem with these plastic housings, they contain the bearing which supports the end of the rotor (rotating assembly). If this bearing seizes for any reason (some are non-greasable), the bearing spins in the plastic housing. To add insult to injury, as it spins, it generates heat, heat melts plastic, and the weight of the rotor, plus its momentum while spinning, allows the end of the rotor to slump downwards. Since it can only go so far, the rotor eventually hits the stator, and the generator shorts out. For good. Not worth fixing. If you already have a generator with a plastic end housing, remove that back housing and grease the bearing regularly. I was amazed at the number of small (8-10K & smaller) generators that have plastic end housings.

[schutzen]

I have 2 Briggs & Stratton generators an 8K and a 5.5K. In the past I have had a Generac and a Honda. I used the Generac until failure, about 15 years, and I would buy another one if the price was right. The Honda I used on until dealer failure. Any piece of equipment is only as good as the support you can get for it. When I was without power for 19 days the Honda dealers closed for a long weekend and I could not get parts. There are several B&S dealers in the area. All were open 7 days a week until the entire area had power restored and several were on call 24/7. I no longer have any Honda motors on this place and will not in the future. The two B&S units use the same filters, the same oil, and dual fuel gas/propane carburetors are a $250 add on. I know many people brag on the Honda units, but make sure your Honda dealer will live up to his equipment.

[MaryB]

Northern Tool Northstar generator with the Honda engine. I have a little 2700 watt version and it has came in handy on days I don't have enough battery power during an outage. Doubling the size of my solar battery bank in a month or so too.

[winelover]

I have a Generac Guardian series, with solid state ATS controller and a 500-gallon LPG tank dedicated to it. I can run the whole house and the shop on it, a 20Kw job. Only way to go.

What, Outpost75, said------except, I have a 1000 gallon tank.

Winelover

[pdawg_shooter]

I have a 12kw Onan that starts and stops by its self. Plumbed up to my propane tank. Big enough to run the whole house and the well at the same time. It really sucks being without water. That and the furnace are the reason I bought it.

[6bg6ga]

I have a Generac Guardian series, with solid state ATS controller and a 500-gallon LPG tank dedicated to it. I can run the whole house and the shop on it, a 20Kw job. Only way to go.

This in my opinion is the best post here so far. THis poster has figured his load and has a generator that is of adequate size for his needs.

[Petrol & Powder]

+1 for totaling your load and sizing the generator for your needs. If you have a well and want to have water, you need a lot of wattage to start that electric motor. It takes far more current to start an electric motor than to run it and this is where a lot of folks underestimate their needs. You also need 220 VAC output to operate most pumps in addition to the 110 volts needed for the other loads.
I agree with Outpost75's method but I couldn't afford to go as large as he did. I installed a dedicated 8K propane fueled set with an automatic transfer switch. After the water pump, I picked the circuits that I wanted to power and ended with everything I needed (refrigerator, hot water via a gas fired water heater, heat, some lights, etc.). I've run off of that setup for days at a time (6 days has been the max so far) and it works very well. Under load it burns about a gallon an hour and you can shut it down at night to conserve fuel. A propane tank is only filled to about 80% to allow for vapor space, so a 325 gallon tank only holds about 260 gallons when full. If you consumed 1 gallon an hour that would still give you over 10 days of use and that's worst case scenario.

Propane powered engines are FAR more likely to start when needed than gasoline powered units, particularly in cold weather. They also burn much cleaner and have less maintenance issues than gasoline powered sets.

I've also used portable gasoline powered sets in the past and they have the advantage of lower initial cost and less complicated install (no need for a large tank, piping, regulators, etc. ) You do have the problem of fuel storage and the use of a fuel stabilizer is absolutely necessary.

A couple of features that I think are important are: an overhead valve engine and brushless generators. The OHV engines are quieter and more efficient than the old flat head engines. A brushless generator eliminates a potential point of failure in the gen-set.

Diesel is attractive in terms of efficiency but unless you're talking about a large stationary unit, your choices are somewhat limited. If I needed a unit that would be called upon to run for weeks at a time I would select a large liquid cooled diesel unit. However, that's far beyond what most folks need to get them through a few days after a storm that occurs once every 2-3 years.

Calculate your load requirements, select a generator output that will fulfill your needs, don't forget the extra load needed to start electric motors, pick your fuel of choice and maintain your setup. It's all about planning BEFORE you need it!

[Hickok]

I have a Generac that is always on stand-by. One thing people must also realize when owning a generator, stock up on gas BEFORE the lights go out. Gas stations run on electric, the pumps run on electric, no electric, no gas! Logic and common sense are not being taught today in our school systems.

[6bg6ga]

I have a Generac that is always on stand-by. One thing people must also realize when owning a generator, stock up on gas BEFORE the lights go out. Gas stations run on electric, the pumps run on electric, no electric, no gas! Logic and common sense are not being taught today in our school systems.

Good point>

[Mal Paso]

Portable: the Honda EU series Inverter Generator. Does not need to run at full speed to produce 60 cycle AC. Quiet reliable. I have the 3000. Everyone copies Honda's design but no one comes close.

Stationary: Generac sells complete packages complete with Automatic Transfer Switches at very reasonable prices. Needs to be installed by an electrician. Air cooled engines are noisier and cheaper than water cooled but suited to the few hours it will actually run. Water cooled last about 10,000 hours vs 3,000 for a typical air cooled. Generac has the best parts system.

[6bg6ga]

+1 for totaling your load and sizing the generator for your needs. If you have a well and want to have water, you need a lot of wattage to start that electric motor. It takes far more current to start an electric motor than to run it and this is where a lot of folks underestimate their needs. You also need 220 VAC output to operate most pumps in addition to the 110 volts needed for the other loads.
I agree with Outpost75's method but I couldn't afford to go as large as he did. I installed a dedicated 8K propane fueled set with an automatic transfer switch. After the water pump, I picked the circuits that I wanted to power and ended with everything I needed (refrigerator, hot water via a gas fired water heater, heat, some lights, etc.). I've run off of that setup for days at a time (6 days has been the max so far) and it works very well. Under load it burns about a gallon an hour and you can shut it down at night to conserve fuel. A propane tank is only filled to about 80% to allow for vapor space, so a 325 gallon tank only holds about 260 gallons when full. If you consumed 1 gallon an hour that would still give you over 10 days of use and that's worst case scenario.

Propane powered engines are FAR more likely to start when needed than gasoline powered units, particularly in cold weather. They also burn much cleaner and have less maintenance issues than gasoline powered sets.

I've also used portable gasoline powered sets in the past and they have the advantage of lower initial cost and less complicated install (no need for a large tank, piping, regulators, etc. ) You do have the problem of fuel storage and the use of a fuel stabilizer is absolutely necessary.

A couple of features that I think are important are: an overhead valve engine and brushless generators. The OHV engines are quieter and more efficient than the old flat head engines. A brushless generator eliminates a potential point of failure in the gen-set.

Diesel is attractive in terms of efficiency but unless you're talking about a large stationary unit, your choices are somewhat limited. If I needed a unit that would be called upon to run for weeks at a time I would select a large liquid cooled diesel unit. However, that's far beyond what most folks need to get them through a few days after a storm that occurs once every 2-3 years.

Calculate your load requirements, select a generator output that will fulfill your needs, don't forget the extra load needed to start electric motors, pick your fuel of choice and maintain your setup. It's all about planning BEFORE you need it!

You seem to be well informed. I'm debating a stationary 20KW unit with automatic connect/disconnect. I was looking at natural gas and diesel units. Both of which are water cooled. Like you said you must look ahead and evaluate your load and usage in order to size the unit correctly. I personally believe the little units are next to nothing as they may power a refrigerator and a light and thats going to be about it. One must take into consideration load upon start up of motors and different electronic devices that can draw 50% more upon initial startup as they do running.

[Petrol & Powder]

Water cooled units are more durable and generally run quieter than air-cooled units. Natural gas & diesel both have pros & cons.
The natural gas option gives you a practically limitless source and no fuel storage issues but does make you dependent on a municipal supply system. Public gas systems are very reliable in all but the worst situations; earthquakes come to mind. It's very rare to lose to public gas supply but it can happen.
Diesel requires that you purchase and store your own fuel supply but it does make you more self-sufficient. I'm very comfortable with diesel fuel systems but there is a learning curve.
If I lived in an area that had a reliable natural gas supply that would be a tempting option because it removes the burden of purchasing, storing and maintaining fuel that I don't need 98% of the time.

It seems like you are thinking before buying - which puts you WAY ahead of the game!

[Petrol & Powder]

Portable: the Honda EU series Inverter Generator. Does not need to run at full speed to produce 60 cycle AC. Quiet reliable. I have the 3000. Everyone copies Honda's design but no one comes close.

Stationary: Generac sells complete packages complete with Automatic Transfer Switches at very reasonable prices. Needs to be installed by an electrician. Air cooled engines are noisier and cheaper than water cooled but suited to the few hours it will actually run. Water cooled last about 10,000 hours vs 3,000 for a typical air cooled. Generac has the best parts system.

Honda quality is very good. 15 years ago Honda offered very few (if any?) sets that provided 120/240 output. That lack of 240VAC output was the main reason I went with Generac back in those days. Honda now offers 120/240 output on all but their smallest units. In the field of portable generators Honda is an excellent choice.

Ditto on the water cooled vs. air cooled issue. Durability, noise & cost are the compromises there.

[Bonz]

I have a Generac 15kw with transfer switch that runs on natural gas. The local gas company was very happy to come out and install the larger gas meter (required by the Generac generator) for free. 15kw is enough electricity to run everything in the house except for the A/C. Everything is automatic, comes on and goes off by itself when needed. I just change the oil & oil filter every 6 months, check the battery, etc., just like a car.

[snowwolfe]

I owned one of these for about 4 years and used it about three times a year:
http://www.costco.com/Honeywell-7500W-Running--9375W-Peak-Portable-Generator.product.11758143.html

And spend the money to get a transfer switch installed. This gen might not run everything in the house at the same time but it will run anything you need including the furnace, stove, dryer, etc.
Great compromise between wattage and price.

A 2,000 or 3,000 watt generator is handy to have but not when you are out of power in your house. Buy at least a 7,500.

[dragon813gt]

15kw is enough electricity to run everything in the house except for the A/C.
There is an easy way to get the AC to run w/ out increasing the starting load. That's what's keeping you from running it now.

[DCM]

A good friend of mine and I each have natural gas powered Generac Gaurdians with auto transfer switches and are quite happy with them.
10KW & 12KW sized to our needs/wants.
A continuous 1" gas line to both of these was all that was needed. They will both handle our AC if we don't get carried away with other stuff.

[schutzen]

I noticed that several are installing natural gas powered generators. These are very good depending on what you are planning for. I live on the New Madrid Fault. While I would like to have natural gas, if a major earthquake hits the natural gas will be automatically shut off and not restored to service until every foot of gas line has been inspected. If you are in a fault zone, you may want to re-think the natural gas option.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Up here in the Thumb area for our Christmas ice storm last year my Generac whole house 17K auto start propane fired unit ran non stop for 6 days till Edison restored power. It really sucked the propane from my "pig" that read 65% 2 days before the outage but dropped to 30% 4 days later by it running 24/7 and my furnace running along with my hot water heater. We supplied water to neighbors around here and we delivered a hot Christmas dinner to people that had only electric stoves. One important point I was made aware of is to keep a check on the oil level in the generator engine. If it gets low there is an auto shut off built into the unit to prevent damage by no oil. I got this unit about 15 years back and don`t regret buying it.Robert

[HarryT]

Some generators will destroy computers and smart phones. Be sure to use a ups (uninterruptible power supply) when charging sensitive electronics.

[dragon813gt]

Some generators will destroy computers and smart phones. Be sure to use a ups (uninterruptible power supply) when charging sensitive electronics.

Not just any UPS. You need to make sure it conditions the line voltage. The bottom of the line ones do not do this. And you better have on your TV as well.

[jeepyj]

As others have mentioned a LP unit sized properly is the best option. Most folks don't have big use for one until to power is out then you have to contend with the carburetor being gummed up with old fuel.
Jeepyj

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

rain ...

[Down South]

I bought a Miller Bobcat Welder/Generator about 8-10 yrs ago. 8 KW if I remember right. It got me out of a lot binds through the years, hurricanes to ice storms.
I'm thinking about getting a propane unit about 12 KW, one with a transfer switch.

[smoked turkey]

With little doubt if one can afford the purchase and installation of one of the Generac 17-20Kw units, set up for propane or natural gas with automatic transfer switch, that is the way to go for most home systems. As stated the A/C units or heavy loads of electric heat may require load shedding type of equipment in order to meet codes as to loading of the generator. Each have their own thoughts on the subject, but it seems to me in an emergency situation, one should be of a mind set that living life as usual can be put on hold for a few days.Hence the air conditioner and clothes dryer can be wired out of the system for the duration of the outage. It is necessary to have a qualified electrician make the necessary changes to the incoming power with the transfer switch. Most of the time the local electric utility wants to have some input as to just how the generator is to be installed as to the type equipment, and proper signage to tell the home has a standby generator. It is a good idea to cycle the generator every two weeks or so in order to maintain it in a ready to go status. The larger units have a program that allows them to start up automatically in order to keep them at the ready.

[BruceB]

After living for years in a remote Northern location where we supplied ALL our own needs, I agree that for stand-by power a propane-fed generator is the best bet. We used diesels on a daily basis, but that is very different from the stand-by concept.

Natural gas is good, but you would STILL be dependent on an outside source of fuel. With propane, your fuel is ON SITE, and it's under YOUR control. The only downside is the cost of the tank and the cost of the fuel, which must be paid-for in advance..... but what value would you assign to having those items available when the "grid" power is not available for a long period?

Propane doesn't degrade in storage, unlike diesel or gasoline. Once you have a supply on hand, it will keep for a very long time. Precautions should be taken for protecting the propane tank against fire (meaning, wildfire or other external heat sources) and also against bullets... stray or otherwise. Keep the tank out of sight from passersby as much as possible, too.... no need to advertise. A simple earth berm would hide the tank both from view AND from bullets. I believe there are tanks available bow for in-ground burial.... that would be ideal.

If a situation occurs when the stand-by power is needed, CONSERVE and RATION the fuel and running time as much as possible, right from the first moment! You will have no real idea of the magnitude of the problem, and what you have on-hand may have to last a long time. Minimizing run time reduces the chances of mechanical failure, so do the maximum number of required power-using chores each time the generator runs... and then SHUT IT DOWN! Try not to use it as a full-time power supply, and it will last MUCH longer.

Our off-grid house used the generators mainly to charge a huge battery bank, and while the diesel was running we also did laundry, pumped water from the lake, ran whirlpool tubs and dishwasher, etc etc. Four or five hours of generator time per day was ample to keep the whole thing running fine. Our main diesel was a 12KW Lombardini, backed-up with a 6KW Onan. The Onan could charge the batteries (at a lower rate) but would not run the laundry due to starting-loads.

Diesel is fine for such use. I could have used propane, as we had a 1000-gallon tank right beside the generator house to supply water-heating, cooking, boiler heat etc etc.... but diesel was OK. Propane stops vaporizing at about-40 degrees (Celsius OR Fahrenheit) so if you live where it gets that cold.....! I ran the warm diesel exhaust through an iron pipe that ran underneath the length of that insulated 1000-gallon tank..... a propane heater kept the diesels ready to run in their house, and the diesels kept the propane warm enough to vaporize.... serendipity! We often had temps sown to -50 degrees or even colder.

Keep in mind that MANY of the smaller gasoline generators may be easily converted to run on propane. The power output will be reduced somewhat, but the advantages of propane are sufficiently important to outweigh that factor... at least in MY estimation. Just the greatly-increased safety in fuel storage (as well as its longevity) would bring me to using propane over gas.

Complicated subject, when we really start digging into it!

[starmac]

I bought a Miller Bobcat Welder/Generator about 8-10 yrs ago. 8 KW if I remember right. It got me out of a lot binds through the years, hurricanes to ice storms.
I'm thinking about getting a propane unit about 12 KW, one with a transfer switch.

I have about decided I will get a bobcat this summer. I want to replace the stolen generator anyway, so think I will go with the welder instead. Might as well give the thieves something better to look at. lol
I think a lot of this depends on a guys needs or wants. I really have no use (at this time for a stationary full house gen set) I don't have a problem doing without tv or a lot of amenities even in a prolonged outage, just something to run the freeezer a few hours a day will work for me, and I use a portable one often enough to not worry about the gas going bad or carb problems.

[762 shooter]

Thanks guys for all the ideas. Now to wait until summer when every one has forgotten that the power can go off again.[smilie=1:

762

[jonp]

My better half's parents installed a whole house Generac Guardian with an auto turn on and plumbed into a propane tank. He researched them quite a bit before getting the Generac and made sure to get one that would run everything in the house when turned on + well pump if it came on at the same time as the max load.

For a small one a Honda is hard to beat not only for dependability but noise and fuel usage.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lot's of good points here.

[midnight]

Heat with wood, kerosene lamps, and a sand point & kitchen pump for water. It's all you need.

Bob

[snowwolfe]

We will be building a new house on our property in Tennessee in a few years and I like the idea of installing a 12K generator with a propane tank. Assuming a worse case scenario of running the gen for 7 days straight at varying loads from 4k to 12k what size propane tank would you suggest?

[Down South]

Will you have any gas appliances, Stove, water heater, gas fireplace? I guess you want a permanent tank. I would say 125 Gal would run longer than 7 days.
I have a 500 gal tank at one house and about a 250 gal at another house but I have gas appliances.
I have my tanks filled once a year but neither are close to empty.

[HATCH]

based on the info provided here -> http://www.bsapowersolutions.com/pages/EM12-Generator.php

Full load will burn 2.2 gals per hour of LP. - 370 gallons for a week 24/7 full load.

So lets say it ran 3/4 load and lets say its 1.5 gals per hour.
In order to run for 7 full days your gonna need 252 gallons of LP.

Thats a lot of propane. Even at $2 a gallon its gonna cost you $500 for a week worth of power. Not sure if its worth that much.

[shdwlkr]

Didn't read all the replies but some thoughts
How much do you want to power with your generator
Will you start it periodically so it is always operational
How much fuel will it consume in a 24 hour period
Is it rated to be run for long periods of time
What is the maintenance schedule Who will preform this task
How much can you afford for a generator and fuel for it
How long do you plan on being where you are now
Can you take it with you if you move
Does it run quite enough to not be a nuisance to neighbors
Will it always be outside or inside of your home It is protected from the elements
If you have a large fuel tank for it is it visible to others think home safety here and also shrinkage due to evaporation if it is a liquid
How often will you really use it

Now this comes from a friend I know that has a propane fired generator that is kicked on automatically every so many days for like a few hours to bring everything up to operating temperature. If something fails it shuts down and there is a way for him to find out what happened. Like one time it ran low on oil and it shut down when he needed it and he just went and got some oil he had on hand and poured it in and in a few minutes the system was started.

[Hackleback]

Depends on what you are looking for. For me, I would get a mid-sized Honda ultraquiet, that way I could use it for other things as well. The 1k model, you can pick up with one hand, 2k is still a one person operation. The 5k model is definitely a two person job. It would be nice to have power and lights in deer camp, and power tools at that remote work site, so these rather small and super quite Honda generators fit the bill. The down side is that you are not going to be able to run every gadget in the house at the same time. I have used the Honda generators off and on for years, and they are great tools,you just need to match then to the job.

[wch]

I bought a Generac through Sam's Club, 10,000 watts, $950.00 delivered.

[Petrol & Powder]

Snowwolfe, Your question has a lot of variables but you're on the right track. There's generally no need to run a generator constantly, even during a long outage. Shutting down occasionally will save valuable fuel and extend your overall run time. If I really needed to run a generator 24 hours a day for a week, I'd be thinking about a diesel liquid-cooled unit. If you need propane for other appliances, you need to have a plan that accounts for all of your propane demands.
Don't forget that propane tanks are only filled to about roughly 80% capacity, so a 325 gallon tank only holds 260 gallons.

And in closing, there are good ways to provide additional home power that don't involve generators; you just have to think about them and design for the total system.

[FISH4BUGS]

Others have said it, but you need to figure out how big the generator needs to be. Personally I don't see the need to run every light and appliance in the house in an outage. It just causes a greater demand on the generator and increases the usage of fuel.
In the ice storm of 2009, here in New Hampshire we were out of power for 11 days. The generator would power stuff, but the well pump needed a 240v system. The existing generator couldn't handle the load. We learned from that one! We upgraded to a gas powered Honda 6500 manual start generator. Starts easily, runs quietly, has a throttle control, and sips gasoline.
It runs the 240v well pump (600 foot deep well), the 2 basement sump pumps, the furnace (propane and now only needed for hot water and the kitchen stove), the freezer, the fridge, and many of the downstairs lights. We heat with wood so heat is not an issue. I made sure the casting shed was wired in just in case. I can cast during a power outage!......priorities you know. The stove is propane so no issues there.
We always hava 50 gallons of gasoline in reserve and rotated out evey two years. Fortunately since the upgrade we have only needed it twice - once for about 4 hours, and once for about 3 hours. But another ice storm will happen - not IF but WHEN.
Figure out what you REALLY need. Add up the wattage of bulbs, appliances, etc. and buy a generator with a little room to spare. You really don't need to run your whole house during a power outage, but I guess some people are spoiled. Some people want it all - auto start, etc. Not me. I just want to have it be there when I need it, and to power the necessities. With a freezer full of food, keeping that freezer going is vital.
No TV in this house so radios are dynamo powered with a solar attachment, or battery run. We are trying a bit at a time to get off the grid.
Hondas seem to be a great generator. I have had NO issues with this one in 4 years. I change the oil, start it every 2 weeks and run it for 15 minutes with a portable 2000 watt heater attached to put a load on it.
I feel prepared. That is what counts.

[bob208]

I have a old Lincoln gas drive welder. it is a ac machine with 100 percent duty cycle. if the motor ever give out. I will convert it to run off the pto on the tractor.

[Down South]

I've ran on generator power for days at a time, maybe over a week once. I just shut the generator down at night when it was bed time. Then I'd crank it back up the next morning after checking oil, etc.
Mine was only 8k surge, 7.5K max continuous load. I played musical breakers since my house was total electric except for the wood fireplace. Run the stove/oven, leave the water heater off etc. I rigged up a hertz meter, two amp meters and a voltage meter on the incoming wiring to my breaker panel. I built a neat little box with the meters in it that mounted just below the breaker panel so I could monitor my load, voltage and hertz.
When I think generator, I think something to get me out of a bind due to a storm while waiting on electricity to come back on.
As others have stated, it can get expensive to run one of these gas, diesel or propane.

But from your first post, you just want something for a power outage. The Generac units are nice if you want something automatic.
Smaller units 1-3KW are nice and will run freezers, lights and so on depending. To power bigger appliances, I'd go at about 8KW. To power a normal size total electric house, You probably need a 12KW unit, maybe larger. You need to calculate everything you want to power to come up with that figure.

Some/most/maybe all power companies will require a transfer switch to cover their butt. If you power up the buss in your house and forget to turn the main off, it back feeds the service line. Those transformers you are feed from work both ways. They drop the voltage to two 110-120V lines coming into your meter base but if you back feed the transformer, it jacks the voltage back up to line voltage. A lineman could get electrocuted. Thus the reason for a transfer switch.
I know you didn't ask for all of that, I just threw it in.

[DCM]

As others said you really need to properly size for your needs/wants I saw a couple folks with 17-20KW!!!!! WOW Must have a huge place if you Really need that much.
My house with EVERYthing turned on including AC. & excluding shop tools comes in at 9.36KVA can't call it KW as they are not all linear loads but 12KW is much more than enough if we want to live like kings.
Having lights when others don't helps to keep the thieves away too, the last extended outage here we were one of the few in our usually very quiet neighborhood that didn't have our cars broken in to.
Some folks may need the auto-start to keep furnaces or sumps running while they are away or just unable to get home at the moment of need, others may not be able to pull start the pig. One needs to cover all their needs.

[dragon813gt]

While 17-20kW may sound large it's really not. Especially if you have multiple compressors. Or if you have heat pumps and want some of the electric heat to work. An average EH package is 10kW so you can see the load adds up fast.

The only way to size a generator is to do all the math for your home. I need over 5kW peak to start the sump pumps up. They are power hungry motors. The rest of the house is a fairly small load.

If it was me and I had the property to allow it. I would bury a minimum of one 1,000 gallon propane tank. Multiples if I could afford it. Yes it's a lot of money up front. But you can also negotiate your price if you order a few thousand gallons at a time. This way there would be no worries about running out during an extended outage. We have two 120 gallon tanks at our place in the Poconos. We can easily burn 75% in a week if it's cold. We know the reasons why we burn so much.

[BruceB]

The RUNNING load imposed by an electric motor is often just a fraction of the power needed to START that electric motor.

I once had a 7500W Generac gas set that would NOT start the motor on an electric washing machine. This was pretty serious, because we depended on that genset for all our power needs. Needless to say, it was soon relegated to standby duty.

I see a tendency here for folks to see standby generators as a way to simply replace all the power normally used.... that's an unrealistic way to view the idea.

What's needed is a total of the consumption that you can just get by with..... NOT run every blasted electric device in the house! When you have that figure, I would add at least 50% to the wattage total for selecting a generator size.

-enough power to run your heat system (hopefully NOT electric heaters)

-enough power for a few lights

Those 1/3 HP furnace-blower motors are another high-draw starting load. That's why I had a propane boiler in our 5000 sq ft house in the NWT bush, with everything running on the battery bank when the diesels were "off". The boiler would keep the house warm for over two weeks at 40 below zero, running on on the batteries,without re-charging. The circulating pump on the boiler only drew ONE AMP from the batteries, and they lasted a LONG time at that discharge rate.

Standby gensets are a great idea, but asking them to replace ALL your power needs is unrealistic.

Remember that fuel consumption is LESS if the machine isn't under full load. It's not precisely a linear relationship, but I'd rather run a 10KW set at 50% load than a 5KW set set at its grunting maximum effort.

-

[buckwheatpaul]

We put in a Generac when we built our home.....it self-tests weekly and runs on propane....we love it....when power is loss we can run our tv, lights in our bedroom, pellet stoves, and refrigerators....highly recommend.....

[Mal Paso]

I once had a 7500W Generac gas set that would NOT start the motor on an electric washing machine. This was pretty serious, because we depended on that genset for all our power needs. Needless to say, it was soon relegated to standby duty.-

You had a problem with the washer, generator, or both. I ran my washer, dryer, and charged the batteries with what was left over from a 3KW Honda.

Now the costco level portable generators do not put out the power quality of a Honda or typical stationary genset. The cheap windings in the alternator produce a poor sine wave that doesn't have the power density, making rated capacity questionable. Small generators have less mass in motion to maintain speed when electric motors start. Also until energy saving became important washing machine motors were very inefficient.

Not questioning what you say, but normally a 7500W generator will handle a washer with power to spare.

[Bo1]

I currently own a 5500 watt Generac portable pull start generator. I live in hurricane country, and bought this generator right before hurricane Katrina quite a few years back. I have wired an external weather proof plug wired directly into my panel, and mounted on the exterior of my house. My generator will run everything in my house except my air/furnace, and my water heater. We have a fireplace, and a wood stove, so heat is not an issue. We put a small window unit in the bedroom if it is summer time, so we can all sleep without melting. We have multiple freezers full of deer meat, fish, and everything else that we store for eating. My house is totally electric, and this 5500 watt generator has run everything for us for up to 11 days in a row. I also has a 6 gallon gas tank on it, and will run approximately 10 hours on that tank.
A generator and the size, and the fuel type is relevant to your budget, and your needs.

[luvtn]

BruceB wrote: "Those 1/3 HP furnace-blower motors are another high-draw starting load. That's why I had a propane boiler in our 5000 sq ft house in the NWT bush, with everything running on the battery bank when the diesels were "off". The boiler would keep the house warm for over two weeks at 40 below zero, running on on the batteries,without re-charging. The circulating pump on the boiler only drew ONE AMP from the batteries, and they lasted a LONG time at that discharge rate."
I would be interested in hearing about your boiler set up. I have a trailer in middle Tn. All electric. To run everything-well, freezer, heat pump calculates out to 21.5 Kw. I would love to have something to attach to my heat pump-wood fired-to decrease the amount of electricity needed to run things.
luvtn

[Mal Paso]

Good stuff on propane consumption. Running a propane/gasoline generator with no load still takes about 40% of the fuel of a full load. Watching TV with a 12 KW propane generator takes about a gallon (liquid) of propane an hour.

Diesel Engines are more efficient with a light load.

When I was living with a generator I tried to run it at 80% of full load. The power was run through an inverter/charger which put all the "extra" electricity into batteries. The Inverter supplied electricity from the batteries when the generator was not running for 24/7 power. BUT the inverter and batteries cost twice as much as the generator. If you are making all you're own electricity it makes sense. If you're covering a storm outage it doesn't.

[Idz]

One thing that seems to work well for my small Honda and Coleman generators is to add the fuel stabilizer to the gasoline. Also most propane units can run on natural gas with no or minor adjustments. And you can convert your gasoline units to propane/natural gas by adding a demand regulator kit available from http://www.propanecarbs.com/ . And for the survivalist types there was an old FEMA (~1970) plan to run gasoline engines off of woodgas similar to the way the Nazi occupied countries ran vehicles in WWII when the Germans commandeered all the petroleum.

All combined you should be able to handle anything nature throws at you.

[snowwolfe]

Personally I think fuel stabilizer is a waste of money. When we lived in Alaska both our boats and RV would sit from Sept till May and we never started them. Never had a fuel related issue in anything I ever owned.
Even in the generator I just ran it for about 30 minutes every 6 months if we were fortunate not to need it and it ran fine.

[starmac]

That has pretty much been my experience, even my old snow machine that set for 6 years started right up. My welder, four wheeler, and a couple of pickups sit outside, and won't be started all winter, and they always start and run fine when I need them.

[Ickisrulz]

That has pretty much been my experience, even my old snow machine that set for 6 years started right up. My welder, four wheeler, and a couple of pickups sit outside, and won't be started all winter, and they always start and run fine when I need them.

My experience in Oklahoma has been the opposite. My generator sat for 10 months and the gas turned to varnish. One small ATV got all clogged up after a month or so. Anything left for years has been terrible. Maybe it's the temperature.

[starmac]

Temp might have something to do with it, but I really don't think so, and here is why. I lived on I 40 in new mexico for years, and ran a shop for a good many of them. I cranked many many vehicles and pieces of equipment that farmers had left for years. After I closed the shop and went to trucking I had many vehicles that wouldn't be started for a year or two at a time, and all it usually took was jumper cables. lol I did sometimes have carb gaskets dry out to where they would start to leak. I know in east texas I couldn't do this, I really think humidity plays a big part.

[dragon813gt]

I think it depends on the gas in your area. My vehicles and lawn equipment are no big deal if there is an issue. My generator, no big deal if it's during the monthly cycle. Major deal if it's during a power outage. The stabilizer doesn't cost much for how much I use. If it doesn't work I can at least say I tried.

We've had issues w/ gas fouling up the carb in the log splitter and a friends outboard motor. So I know the gas in this area can be problematic.

[Petrol & Powder]

There's a lot of knowledge and some hard earned experience in the previous posts. If you can avoid a central AC and/or heat pump and an electric hot water heater, you can accomplish a lot with 8K watts.

As for fuel stabilizer, I've seen a lot of damage and varnish from stale gas. Some say that ethanol makes it worse but I don't know if there's science behind that claim. I will say that I've personally seen extremes on both ends of the gasoline storage issue. On the negative side, I've seen carburetors completely destroyed from less than three months storage. On the positive side I saw a 1968 Plymouth that was parked in a field in 1980 and it started with a new battery and a pint of gas poured in the carb in 1986! It then ran on the fuel that was still in the tank!

I prefer to avoid the problem and use fuel stabilizer when I cannot drain the system of gasoline.

[Mal Paso]

I think the old leaded gas needed stabilizer more than the gasoline we use now. I remember draining NASTY stuff from gas tanks of cars that hadn't run in a couple years. Put in fresh gas and they started right up. Gasoline doesn't seem to go bad like that any more but stabilizer isn't a bad idea.

I bought a old '73 F262 4X and put in the first unleaded gas it ever had. It took about 50 miles for all the varnish in the tank to turn to jelly and plug the fuel filter solid.

Big thing is to shut off the gas to the carburetor so it doesn't keep evaporating, filling, evaporating, and leaving deposits in the carburetor.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

away.

[starmac]

Wow I guess I meed to us my generator once in a while, so no need to just plan on using to keep the cobwebs out.

[MaryB]

My 2,400 watts of solar and the 928 amp hours of battery is the ultimate generator

[Petrol & Powder]

My 2,400 watts of solar and the 928 amp hours of battery is the ultimate generator

Solar is definitely quieter :grin: And sunlight is free! ...well... at least until the socialists pass the "Sunlight dispersal equalization tax" :wink:

In a perfect world I would design a system that utilized different sources of power and had lower power requirements. However I keep reducing my available capital by purchasing guns, powder, primers, molds and occasionally food.

[Gator 45/70]

I went with the triple fuel conversion on my Briggs after Katernia, When Gustav hit I ran it for 11 hours on Nat Gas. Sure is nice not having to get out and hustle gasoline after a storm.

[starmac]

I knew an older couple that lived off grid in the mountains of northern N.M. a long time back. They had some solar panels and a china generator (diesel) that is no longer available. They ran it 8 hours a day every day to keep their freezer froze and washed clothes and other high power needs while it was running. They had bought two of these generators, and they actually came with an overhaul kit. When I met them they had been using the first one for nearly 10 years,and hadn't needed the overhaul kit, much less the replacement gen set they had bought. The only thing that had gone out was the starter, and they just pull started it for a week or so while waiting for the new starter, instead of robbing it off the other one. They had a iirc a 300 gallon diesel tank they filled once a year, and claimed they had never come close to emptying it. At the time off road diesel was around 69 cents a gallon, so I remember thinking their electricity bill was actually cheaper than mine. lol I wish I had bought on of these before they were discontinued, as I have only seen one for sale since and they were quite proud of it.

[BruceB]

The problem with almost any "natural" power source, be it wind, solar or whatever, is that the power generated is rarely sufficient for consumption NOW.... meaning that a battery bank is practically a requirement.

When batteries are included in a system, it is absolutely essential that the user become educated in how and why batteries work, and it's not a simple subject.

There are some excellent books on the subject; a google search will find them.

The batteries will store power for use when the sun or wind are not available. To run most 120-volt devices, an inverter can provide 120AC from the batteries, but GOOD inverters (not "Walmart quality") are expensive. Our "Trace"-brand 2000W inverter cost over 2000 dollars back around 1988.

Batteries, inverter and solar panels or wind generators add up to a lot of bux. There is also a considerable "learning curve' for the owner of such a system, before maximum performance can be achieved.

For standby power, I think a fossil-fuel genset is more practical for occasional use.

[snowwolfe]

As far as stabilizer goes...........if your motor is fuel injected it is a closed system meaning no air in and no air out. How could fuel turn to varnish if it can not evaporate?
I can understand the need to drain a bowl on a carb if you plan on not using it for a year or so.

Everything I read about gasoline says it is produced with about a one year shelf life. We used to ditch our extra gas at moose camp every year and once in awhile we would need to use some. Oldest we ever used was 6 years old and it ran just fine in the ATV's.

[starmac]

I have seen gas that was bad and tarnished, it even smelled terrible. It may just be a different blend or something, because I have seen it last several years and run fine too.
I know looking at some of the websites on chainsaws, pro loggers will not even use gas a week old anymore, but chainsaws are picky too.

[Petrol & Powder]

The problem with almost any "natural" power source, be it wind, solar or whatever, is that the power generated is rarely sufficient for consumption NOW.... meaning that a battery bank is practically a requirement.

When batteries are included in a system, it is absolutely essential that the user become educated in how and why batteries work, and it's not a simple subject.

There are some excellent books on the subject; a google search will find them.

The batteries will store power for use when the sun or wind are not available. To run most 120-volt devices, an inverter can provide 120AC from the batteries, but GOOD inverters (not "Walmart quality") are expensive. Our "Trace"-brand 2000W inverter cost over 2000 dollars back around 1988.

Batteries, inverter and solar panels or wind generators add up to a lot of bux. There is also a considerable "learning curve' for the owner of such a system, before maximum performance can be achieved.

For standby power, I think a fossil-fuel genset is more practical for occasional use.

All very valid points. For occasional standby power and generator makes the best sense. I look at solar & wind as parts of a hybrid system. I'm not a sailor by any means but a good example of a hybrid system would be a yacht with solar, wind and diesel systems for generating electricity. People that actual live at sea and have no other options for power have learned how to maximize what's available.

[6bg6ga]

Solar is definitely quieter :grin: And sunlight is free! ...well... at least until the socialists pass the "Sunlight dispersal equalization tax" :wink:

In a perfect world I would design a system that utilized different sources of power and had lower power requirements. However I keep reducing my available capital by purchasing guns, powder, primers, molds and occasionally food.

Sure, wind power and solar are quieter but unfortunately they are still very costly for what the return is. You have to cost of deep cycle batteries, inverters and assorted electronics involved in the efficient use of this power. Sure its green but like I said its costly.

[Down South]

I've been dealing with Solar Power for over 30 yrs. I take care of all rotating equipment and electrical for my company on our offshore locations.
We use Solar to power our Nav-aids, Lights and Fog Horns. The systems work well but require constant inspections and maintenance.
During the winter months when the days are shorter "Less Sunlight" and cloudy days, some of the systems have a hard time keeping up.
Setting up a larger Solar system to run a house on would be expensive with the initial costs. Then Maintenance costs would have to be calculated in.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.......

[Petrol & Powder]

Sure, wind power and solar are quieter but unfortunately they are still very costly for what the return is. You have to cost of deep cycle batteries, inverters and assorted electronics involved in the efficient use of this power. Sure its green but like I said its costly.

I never said it was cheaper, hence the phase "in a perfect world..."
The up-front cost of solar is one of the main disadvantages to that option. So, ONCE again, for occasional stand by power, a generator is likely the best option.

[BruceB]

For those of us with independent (non-municipal) water supply (wells) there is a VERY useful solar -powered water pump called a "slow-jack" pump.

It comes as a complete system which includes a solar panel, and it's dead simple:

-As long as there is sunlight, the pump is working. It pumps slowly, but a storage tank on surface allows a very useful and vital water supply without any complicated electrics or batteries. Overflow water can be used for many purposes, such as garden/lawn irrigation.

The slow-jack pump can be installed in the well in tandem with the existing pump, meaning: on the SAME water line.

The cost, last time I looked, was in the hundreds of dollars, not thousands. Particularly if one has livestock or dogs etc, this pump could be invaluable in emergencies.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Good stuff on propane consumption. Running a propane/gasoline generator with no load still takes about 40% of the fuel of a full load. Watching TV with a 12 KW propane generator takes about a gallon (liquid) of propane an hour.

Diesel Engines are more efficient with a light load.

When I was living with a generator I tried to run it at 80% of full load. The power was run through an inverter/charger which put all the "extra" electricity into batteries. The Inverter supplied electricity from the batteries when the generator was not running for 24/7 power. BUT the inverter and batteries cost twice as much as the generator. If you are making all you're own electricity it makes sense. If you're covering a storm outage it doesn't.

Watch out if you're running a diesel at light loads. They can 'slobber' or 'wet-stack' where unburned fuel goes out the exhaust. Continued running at light loads can be a bad thing.

dale in Louisiana
(caretaker of a bunch of generators - natural gas AND diesel, up to 750 kW)

[drinks]

I put my amprobe on the incoming line, with the central heater fan on, ref., freezer and 4 fluorescent lights,the total load was less than 3000w.
I have a 5500watt,( 6500 surge) generator, I am an electrician, more than 40 years experience.
Rather than install a separate panel and auto change over switch, I made up a cord and plug the generator into a welding receptacle, I do know to turn off the main breaker before doing so.
Convenient and economical for me, but as I said, I AM an electrician.
I do wish it was on propane, finding gas in the aftermath of a hurricane can get difficult.