Midrange loads causing leading in 45 Colt

[elrotundamundo]

I am getting pretty severe bore leading in my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with midrange loads. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt purchased around 1980 and use bullets from a Lee 452-252-SWC mold shot as cast (measure .452) from straight wheelweights tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox. The load causing the leading is 13 grains of Hogdon HS-6 with a Winchester WLP primer. I don't have a chrono, but I got the load from John Linebaugh's website and he lists the velocity at 1050 fps. Prior to trying this load, I tried this same bullet using his heavy load of 296/H110 that would be about 1400 fps according to his data. The heavy load did not lead at all, cases showed no excess pressure signs and extracted easily, but the recoil was brutal, so I went to a lighter load. I intend to hunt whitetail and elk in heavy timber with this gun. My gun dimensions are: Chamber .485 (measured), throats .454 (slugged) and bore .451 (slugged). I am guessing that the bullets are not obturating enough to fill the oversize throats and I am getting gas cutting. Any ideas as to what could be the problem and solution. Thanks.

[fredj338]

Probably too hard an alloy, since your throat dims seem fine. I got leading in my RBHSS with any lead bullet. I measured the throats with pin gages & found them small, an avg of 0.4505". After opening them up to 0.452", accuracy improved & the leading went away. I assume the leading is early in the bbl?

[osteodoc08]

What alloy are you using? How are you measuring the boolits?

You had no leading with H110 at 1300+fps, but are now with HS-6 at approx 1000 fps with the same boolit? Odd. Did the lube change at all between them?

I'd look at the cast boolits and alloy.

[ShooterAZ]

I had this same (sort of) problem with my 44 RBH. Loads with 2400 worked perfectly no leading, and loads with Unique leaded. Going to a harder alloy actually solved the problem for me. I attributed it to pressure curve & skidding. YMMV

[Dusty Bannister]

Please review your load data and compare with other sources. You appear to be over max recommended loads.
Did you work up to this load, or just jump in at the top?

[Char-Gar]

I am getting pretty severe bore leading in my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with midrange loads. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt purchased around 1980 and use bullets from a Lee 452-252-SWC mold shot as cast (measure .452) from straight wheelweights tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox. The load causing the leading is 13 grains of Hogdon HS-6 with a Winchester WLP primer. I don't have a chrono, but I got the load from John Linebaugh's website and he lists the velocity at 1050 fps. Prior to trying this load, I tried this same bullet using his heavy load of 296/H110 that would be about 1400 fps according to his data. The heavy load did not lead at all, cases showed no excess pressure signs and extracted easily, but the recoil was brutal, so I went to a lighter load. I intend to hunt whitetail and elk in heavy timber with this gun. My gun dimensions are: Chamber .485 (measured), throats .454 (slugged) and bore .451 (slugged). I am guessing that the bullets are not obturating enough to fill the oversize throats and I am getting gas cutting. Any ideas as to what could be the problem and solution. Thanks.

I am going to assume, you have the right specs on your handgun, although .454 cylinder throats sends up a red flag for me. Ruger did not make them that large.

But assuming the correctness of your specs, I think your hypothesis about the cause of your leading is probably correct. The solution is to use softer bullet or larger bullets or both. I am not a fan of LLA, so I will just let that pass. Barrel leading most often comes from one or more of the following;

1. Bullet to hard
2. Bullet to small
3. Worthless lube
4. Rough barrel interior

[DougGuy]

Char-Gar they did in the '80s! I had a BH convertible that had .456" mouths from the factory.. It improved it a LOT when Ruger replaced both cylinders with .4515" throats..

[runfiverun]

a number of the rugers I had back then [late 80's into the mid 90's] worked much better with 453 and 454 boolits.
I think the op's thoughts on the hotter load bumping the boolit is pretty close to what's happening.
I'd try beagling or lapping the mold a bit first, it wouldn't hurt anyway.

[DaveSpud]

I have the same gun, same caliber, same mold and bullet, different powder (Unique.) I tried the 45/45/10 lube with Lee Alox, and got leading. Then I tried a simple lube I found in the lube sticky, and got no leading, and a shiney bore.

The lube is 60% beeswax, 40% Vaseline. You cant just tumble it, you have to warm it, and warm the bullets.

I microwaved a bit in a plastic box (Berry's plated bullet box), warmed the bullets in a 200 degree oven for 5 mins, then rolled them all around. Once theyre cool, you can load 'em.

Won't cost you much to try it.

[Char-Gar]

I have the same gun, same caliber, same mold and bullet, different powder (Unique.) I tried the 45/45/10 lube with Lee Alox, and got leading. Then I tried a simple lube I found in the lube sticky, and got no leading, and a shiney bore.

The lube is 60% beeswax, 40% Vaseline. You cant just tumble it, you have to warm it, and warm the bullets.

I microwaved a bit in a plastic box (Berry's plated bullet box), warmed the bullets in a 200 degree oven for 5 mins, then rolled them all around. Once theyre cool, you can load 'em.

Won't cost you much to try it.

I have used the same beeswax/Vaseline mix, but in a Lyman lube size machine for over 50 years now. It has worked so well for me as a general purpose cast bullet lubricant, I have never seen the need to play around with others, although I have, but saw no advantage to them. If I go much about 2,000 fps in a rifle, I do use Felix Lube.

I have never tried using it like you describe, interesting...very interesting. I never though to try that. I think I will.

[elrotundamundo]

What alloy are you using? How are you measuring the boolits?

You had no leading with H110 at 1300+fps, but are now with HS-6 at approx 1000 fps with the same boolit? Odd. Did the lube change at all between them?

I'd look at the cast boolits and alloy.

I used Lee Liquid Alox on both loads.

[elrotundamundo]

A lot of good information here, thank you all. I think I will try the following in order, one at a time. Using a different lube, using a softer alloy, beagling the mold to get a .454 bullet.

[elrotundamundo]

What alloy are you using? How are you measuring the boolits?

You had no leading with H110 at 1300+fps, but are now with HS-6 at approx 1000 fps with the same boolit? Odd. Did the lube change at all between them?

I'd look at the cast boolits and alloy.

I am using straight wheelweights with nothing else added. Lee Liquid Alox on both loads.

[elrotundamundo]

I am going to assume, you have the right specs on your handgun, although .454 cylinder throats sends up a red flag for me. Ruger did not make them that large.

But assuming the correctness of your specs, I think your hypothesis about the cause of your leading is probably correct. The solution is to use softer bullet or larger bullets or both. I am not a fan of LLA, so I will just let that pass. Barrel leading most often comes from one or more of the following;

1. Bullet to hard
2. Bullet to small
3. Worthless lube
4. Rough barrel interior

Char-Gar I measured the cyinders with a dial caliper. The throats and bore were slugged and then measured with the dial caliper. As to the lube, I have wondered if this particular lube was any good. I think I will try a few others.

[Jupiter7]

I'm still a newb but I had similar results with mid-range loads once cooler weather set in. During summer the hard lube I was using worked fine in 45 auto and colt(5 and 6.5grs bullseye loads). A softer lube solved this in my blackhawk and 1911's. I run a mix of range scrap and wheel weights, pretty soft, with .452 boolits, for reference.

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar I measured the cyinders with a dial caliper. The throats and bore were slugged and then measured with the dial caliper. As to the lube, I have wondered if this particular lube was any good. I think I will try a few others.

If you used a set of dial calipers, it is not likely you got true measurements. They have their uses, but taking such measurements is not one of them. You truly need a decent 1" micrometer.

A fellow with long experience with precision measurement instruments who knows the right feel, can get decent numbers with a set of calipers, but the vast majority of handloaders cannot. Calipers are guaranteed to give bogus numbers when used to measure the inside of a round hole.

Using lead slugs while better than a caliper can also be problematic, as lead when released from compression can have some spring back. But it works just fine to measure the bore, not so much on the cylinder throats.

The most popular method for measuring cylinder throats is the pin gage as cheap Asian sets are now available to work reasonable well. I still prefer to use a high quality expandable machinist hole gauge and micrometer to measure holes. Very precise and repeatable measurements can be made with such a tooling.

I note that several folks are telling me that early 80's Rugers in 45 Colt has larger throats. I can't say that is not true as I don't know. The oldest Ruger in my fleet is a 94 and it had .451 throats.

But this talk about numbers does not go to the heart of your leading issue and I will refer you to my original post on the matter.

[oger]

I had the same problem with a 44 SBH using unique. IMR 4227 is claimed to burn cooler so I changed powder 0 leading problems from then on.

[DaveSpud]

I have used the same beeswax/Vaseline mix, but in a Lyman lube size machine for over 50 years now. It has worked so well for me as a general purpose cast bullet lubricant, I have never seen the need to play around with others, although I have, but saw no advantage to them. If I go much about 2,000 fps in a rifle, I do use Felix Lube.

I have never tried using it like you describe, interesting...very interesting. I never though to try that. I think I will. Char Gar, let me know if you have similar results. It really is an easy way to lube.

[Recluse]

a number of the rugers I had back then [late 80's into the mid 90's] worked much better with 453 and 454 boolits.

I'd try beagling or lapping the mold a bit first, it wouldn't hurt anyway.


I have the same gun, same caliber, same mold and bullet, different powder (Unique.) I tried the 45/45/10 lube with Lee Alox, and got leading. Then I tried a simple lube I found in the lube sticky, and got no leading, and a shiney bore.

Had similar issues a few years ago with the exact same boolit mold the OP is using. Lapped it out to drop at .453. Tumble-lubing didn't work well, which kind of surprised me because I've had nothing but superb results tumble-lubing my .452 stuff for .45ACP. No big deal--put them through the lube-sizer using a .454 sizing die so that it was a lube-only process.

Fixed the problem.

:coffee:

[Messy bear]

bigger boolit diameter with more lube capacity would maybe help. pretty scimpy lube grooves on it.
i think a powder change would help also. hs6 is a shotgun powder (540 win) and alot "hotter" on the boolit base than h110. can you try 2400?