Hodgdon updated their data website

[osteodoc08]

And I don't care for it. I'm only on my smart phone, but I preferred the table index instead of using a filter menu now. Ugh.

Now to try to find my old loads I've used and make sure they didn't change and reprint the load data. Looks like I'll have to pick up a few more reloading guides so I can compare at a glance instead of drilling down through menus.

[Randy C]

It don't seem to offer as many recipes as before so we are limited on powder recommendation now.

[Ozarki]

It didn't work for me at all. Back to the paper manuals.

[338RemUltraMag]

I feel it sucks, went on it with my smartphone and hated it.

[imashooter2]

I concur. I don't understand what the fascination is in "upgrading" a simple interface that works. The new "improved" block load charts are terrible to try to read through. Everyone should use the contact button at the top of the page and let them know. Here is what I sent:

Your new interface "upgrade" for load data is anything but. The block style output is difficult to read on a full size PC and virtually impossible on a phone or tablet. Please bring back the simple table output that allowed a user to see all the loads in a single page width.

[imashooter2]

And I just followed that with this:

The more I use it the worse it gets. How could the designer possibly put the left / right pan bar below the load data so that you have to scroll the bullet weight and powder type off the top of the screen before you can move to the right to see what other bullets and powders are available? Terrible, terrible layout. Please return to the old table layout ASAP so that your customers can actually use the site. Thank you!

[BPrezPB]

Agreed! Its horriable. I used contact and sent my disatisfaction per op.

[Hounddog]

Wow, way way different. This stinks. Was on it two days ago. So sudden without a warning!:cry::cry:

[MTtimberline]

I'm glad I kept some of the analog versions for Hodgdon, Winchester and IMR.

[Randy C]

I did not think that the load data I've printed off in the past 10yrs would be so valuable, normally I would through it away, some times it would get dirty or the cat would chew on it. I'm going to through it and put it in binders for future use I wont be throwing it away any more.

[dragon813gt]

Not being able to zoom in and out and side scrolling for the loads is just dumb. I have an issue w/ all mobile optimized sites. They always suck. Not being able to see the entire load at once is horrible.

[gefiltephish]

Tried it from my phone. It sucks. With Firefox on my pc, it appears sooo much better when I hit <Ctrl + -> once to zoom out. This puts the data back into row format instead of those big chunky blocks. Also, if you are viewing the blocks, you can scroll right/left with your keyboard arrow keys. Just make sure that area of the page is "activated" by clicking within it.

[bhn22]

Great! We're back to powder puff loads with cast bullets. I ran 357 mag, 158 gr LSWC cast.
ETA- I just ran 148 HBWC loads for 357, and IMHO some of them are too hot for a hollow base.

Maybe this means they'll start selling real loading manuals again! I have Hodgdon 27, and consider it to be one of the finest loading manuals ever. They even tried to give fair coverage to competitors powders.

[JimP.]

don't use smart phone but have a nice laptop, site works well and data looks good to me...JimP.

[Sekatoa]

It works from my iPad, but I Prefered the old table listing better. When printed out, they made nice pages you could punch and add to your load data binder. This new page looks like it is supposed to be opstomized for mobile browsers, and when I tried it from my iPhone, I think I confirmed this. It works on an iPhone, and the data is easier to see than the old page. But they should have made a speared mobile site, like brownell or midway has, with an option to go to the full site. If it isn't working from other smart phones,than it obviously still needs work.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/14/y3u7ypet.jpg

[nicholst55]

I hate it when they do that - take something that works just fine and that everyone is accustomed to, and "new-and-improve" it! Just so some IT puke can justify their job (no offense intended to any resident IT types). Be sure to message Hodgdon and share your displeasure with them!

[bhn22]

"I'm not here to make your life easier, I'm not here to make your life better. I'm here to sell you something!

[ShooterAZ]

Not impressed here either. I liked it when you could scroll through all bullet weights including cast with all powders. Not seeing any cast loads either unless I missed something.

[gray wolf]

THAT, along with the ridicules change in the call center, ( hang in there we will call you back )

[Geppetto]

don't use smart phone but have a nice laptop, site works well and data looks good to me...JimP.

I have to say viewing on my PC, its certainly a different more partitioned view of the data, but I don't see any reduction in functionality when viewing from a PC. Everyone keep calm, spend a couple days navigating to the data you need. You'll probably get used to it and in six months you won't know the difference. I felt the same way when switching from Office XP to Office 2010...I now am used to the new software and recognize the improvement in functionality, but you can bet your donkey that I wasn't too happy about it to start.

[dragon813gt]

Glad that it works on a PC. Want to guess how often I view it from a PC? Zero percent. The site is optimized for mobile browsing. Maybe it works on an iPad. But it certainly doesn't work on an iPhone. When you can't see all the data for one load on the screen at once what good does it do you? Scrolling back and forth is a PITA. I never use the mobile versions of sites because they are always bad. I doubt they will change it back. It's also amusing that there is no way to get to the "contact us" part of the site from an iPhone. The tabs on Hodgdon's main site don't open. I had to use google to get to it so I could email them my dissatisfaction.

I equate changes like this to viewing service manuals online versus having a paper copy. It's a lot easier to use a paper copy where you can see an entire page(s) at once. Having to scroll makes it harder to find the info you're after.

Edit:
Well I just tried it on my laptop and it works great. I can live w/ it if I used my PC. But it's still lacking for the iPhone.

[338RemUltraMag]

To whom it may concern:

I am and always have been a big time fan of hodgdon powders, I also come to your online website to view load data on an almost daily basis, recently I swung through to see what powders you suggested for both the 45 Colt and the Ruger loads. Your online manual always has a huge amounts of powder not normally listed in the regular manuals.

What I found was a horrible new setup, it is impossible to navigate through via a smartphone (what I use on the bench as it is nice and small) I am not sure how many people and hours went into this mess, but it is now going to cost you MORE money and here is how.

I will no longer be looking at your online data, I WILL still use Hodgdon powders but will now call in for every load data question I have, this will make you guys have more staff to handle the larger volume of calls. I will also urge everyone I know to use the phone lines instead of ramble through that mess the pencil pushers thought of.

Respectfully,
Joshua Holtschneider

[338RemUltraMag]

I sent this to Hodgdon via email, please feel free to copy it if you see fit.

[swheeler]

They're going to hell in a handbag, what next, discontinuing powders?;)

[tazman]

Some of the powder data has changed.
Loads I used before are different now.
One I used for weeks is now listed as too much.

[osteodoc08]

They're going to hell in a handbag, what next, discontinuing powders?;)

Yep. They're doing that too.

[BeeMan]

The new interface is totally non-functional on my Linux based PC with Firefox. This platform is stone cold reliable for everything else and now I'm locked out. Polite message has been sent to Hodgdon to let them know and suggest they run the previous and new interface as options.

[btroj]

I don't like it at all. The old one was so much easier to look at.

Just because computers can do lots of neat graphics doesn't mean they have to

[Handloader109]

Looks good on my tablet. I think better than several of the other guys. I don'tsee what the problem is.

[geargnasher]

There are some inherent issues to making an HTML webpage function fully with iDon't software, page breaks is one of them because the iDiots who set up the mobile device OS pair pages for some reason. Probably why the side-scroll bar is waaaayyy down at the bottom of the second page for some of you.

I had no trouble with the site on my PC laptop, just an adjustment to view more loads, for which there is a convenient "select all" button. My only complaints so far are, geez, where did all the data go??? And why is it dumbed-down so much? A top-end load in .30-30 with 150-grain bullets is around 2000-2100 fps?? Top end cast around 1600 fps??? OH! right, gotta make the LVR and CFE22 powders look super-fantastic at 2300. For all their trouble they could at least of run some fresh pressure tests in a Piezo gun to give us some PSI readings for once. Nearly fifteen years into the 21st century and we're still seeing mostly copper-crusher data on an internet loading site. Seems to me they would have been better served by maintaining the old website and hiring an extra ballistician and buying some more piezo equipment.

But, my opinion would be ignored by them just like everyone else's.

Gear

[mpbarry1]

it doesnt fit on the phone screen as well and the search options are limited. I do like that you can see all the powders in one database.

I think that they have limited the selection of powder loads. just from memory, but there appears to be less data! that is what bothers me the most.

[nicholst55]

I e-mailed them and explained my discontent. I think I heard my message hit the virtual trashcan, too...

[btroj]

Hey, I am one of those iDiots......

I just liked the ease of printing a full page of data.

Oh well, I can adapt I suppose. I still don't have to be happy though......

[geargnasher]

No you're not, the iDiots are really sharp cookies that write software programs to do amazing things by just saying "yes" or "no" with voltage pressure, but that sometimes bypass beta testing. There's also the thing of copyrighted stuff that gets really complicated in the public domain of websites. Kind of like Lee's or Remlin's customers being the final QC of their products now, and the return department being the scrap bin, now it looks like the company Hodgdon contracted to freshen up their powder data website is making their whole user database the beta testers and offering a feedback button. "Tell us how bad we're sucking". Maybe they'll listen, but the money is already spent, so don't expect any switching back.

I really don't see too much issue with the new site, might be an improvement from some people's perspective (it DOES make it simpler if you have a few boxes of one kind of bullet and want to dig up a couple of recipes for just that), but I do feel for the people who's "other" devices were sort of forgotten about, or at least not prioritized, when the site was put together. You'd think somebody would have logged in on their iPhone from a wifi hot spot and evaluated the site function before launching it. Maybe the contractor was up against a deadline to get the site in place to fill a contract obligation and is still working out the bugs.

Gear

[CGT80]

I saw the new site a few days ago and sent them an email. It probably went the same place as the email to midway about the stupid "recently viewed" tool bar that blocks my view on the bottom of the screen..................the virtual shredder. Midway could have set that up different, like other sites have, so that it doesn't take up valuable vertical space on the page. It blocks real estate that I use to actually purchase products and spend money with them. :groner: Midway did reply to my email. They said people just love that feature.

I have the same problem as others, with seeing the scroll bar on the Hodgdon site. Most pages and software flow in a vertical fashion. It works well and people are used to viewing large amounts of data that way. Horizontal is just ridiculous, and my mouse even has horizontal scrolling. The text was huge with no option to change it. My monitor is set at 1024x768(22" wide screen). I could only imagine how it would look on a lower resolution, for other people. The data did seem thin and didn't show any cast boolits, but I didn't compare it to any of my other data. The old design was great. The only draw back was that you had to print preview to see trim lengths, but it was no big deal. I loved printing out pages for my notebook.

It looks like Hodgdon must have hired Google, Microsoft, or Midway techs....................wait........Midway isn't even as bad as Hodgdon.

Google has ruined the flow and usefulness of YouTube. Luckily, I use firefox and block the ads. I also added some scripts to automatically set the size and quality. You used to be able to just click on the size, quality, or annotations from the main screen. Google messed that up by burring it in another menu. Google + is a joke and they try to trick you into signing up for it when you click on certain features in google products. They are as bad as facebook. They can keep their social networking. I will stick to forums with like minded individuals vs. the whole world who doesn't need to know my every move anyway.

I still use Windows XP on a machine that I built about 8 years ago. XP is solid and makes sense. An icon looks like an icon and is where you expect it. The new windows versions are useless. I don't need more hidden menus and an interface that looks like facebook. I don't use tablets, or laptops, and I don't use my phone for the net very much. They hid the shutdown button. I looked like an idiot in front of my grandmother, looking for it on her computer. My 73 year old grandmother had to tell me where it was. :roll:

I thanked hodgdon for fixing something that wasn't broke. They obviously don't use their developments and don't bother to ask the users what they think, with a beta version.

[btroj]

I tire of all the need for flashy graphics and neat hi tech sites. I just want a simple format where I can get the info I want.
I don't need flashy graphics, drop down menus, and all that.

Maybe this is a sign of web designers with cabin fever?

[dragon813gt]

I tire of all the need for flashy graphics and neat hi tech sites. I just want a simple format where I can get the info I want.
I don't need flashy graphics, drop down menus, and all that.

Maybe this is a sign of web designers with cabin fever?

Same here. The simple table format was perfect. And removing loads is dumb. If anything the online database should always be expanding. It's not like they have to trim pages to keep printing costs down. Any load ever conceived that is still safe should be listed. Now if they removed it because modern equipment has determined it's not safe then I understand.

[sirgknight]

I guess someone decided to make it more difficult to use their reloading data. Sometimes change is a good thing but in this case, IMHO, not so much. It would be my guess that some young whipper-snapper with one of those computer degrees who probably doesn't know one end of the bullet from the other redesigned the load data program. Oh well, it is what it is.......

[GabbyM]

What I personally ran into Was when printing there company logo took up the top three inches of page. Then it took a second page with two lines of data to finish the table.

[Octaron1]

Sounds like a whole bunch of folks don't like change.

[osteodoc08]

Sounds like a whole bunch of folks don't like change.

I'm ok with change.....so long as its for the better. IMHO, I dont think it was the case here.

Previously I could:

1. Glance at all the velocities to see what powders achieved the highest/lowest velocities.
2. Glance at all the powders suitable for a particular rifle or bullet weight.
3. Quickly compare cartridges and bullet weight vs velocity. Example: How fast can a 7mmRM push a 140gr bullet vs a 7mm STW and what powder does it take to do that.
4. Look over my powders on my shelf and the bullets I have to choose which one to use without having to use a search function.
5. The list could go on, but I need a search function to pull down my options to do so :roll:

[dragon813gt]

Sounds like a whole bunch of folks don't like change.

Have you used the new site? Have you used the new site from an iPhone? Don't have an iPhone? Guess what, millions do and and mobile will surpass PC based browsing. If it hasn't already.

[btroj]

I don't mind change, I just don't like THIS change.

How hard is that to understand?

[geargnasher]

I understand. This isn't directed at you, Brad but to the topic at large: People generally don't like something they are used to, even if it could stand some improvement, to be changed. Remember all the squealing last time the forum was updated? There was whining for weeks, from me included, until the staff got things looking more "like it used to be". My complaint was the skin, and was pretty unhappy until the "grey theme" was created. Granted, it was a step forward here and the jury is still out on the Hodgdon site, but the point remains that no matter what, there will be complaining about any sort of change when it first happens.

Give the Hodgdon sit a chance, it may turn out to be a huge improvement even if it may not be right now.

Gear

[btroj]

I will adapt. Always do.

I just liked the list type data, I found it easier to see what I wanted.

I can see where the ability to enter a powder, bullet weight, or other info makes it easier to get specific data.

Face it, change is inevitable. What makes the difference is how we adapt. In a few months we won't even remember how it was.

Now if someone comes in and rewrites my manuals......

[imashooter2]

-snip-
In a few months we won't even remember how it was.
-snip-


Yes I will. And I will still be chapped that they made it into what it is.

[CGT80]

I can see where the ability to enter a powder, bullet weight, or other info makes it easier to get specific data.

The previous version (the good one) of the hodgdon data had this feature at the top, but it showed all as a default. It was nice to see all of the info at once and then narrow it down if you wanted. It was possible to do all this and it was still a nice compact layout. I think I might have tried getting data with my android phone, on the old layout, and not having it work. I often times set my phone to desktop site vs. mobile as most mobile sites are not nearly as good as the normal one.

I doubt I will learn to like this layout. I guess I will have to stick to reloading books.

[dragon813gt]

You can still see all the data at once. Just pick a cartridge and then hit Get Data. All the loads are there and there is a tab to open up all the bullet weights at once.

I wonder what lawyer let them remove the disclaimers they had on the first page where you accepted responsibility? There is no longer any info about the dangers of downloading H110/W296.

[Lefty SRH]

Yep the new site SUCKS!