Do some rifles just not shoot cast?

[lancem]

Subject gun, Rem 700 308W, heavy barrel, 4 x 16 Millet scope

I've been working with this rifle for about a month now, 3 different boolits (311041, 311466, 311413), 3 different powders (2400, Reloader-7,Red Dot), loads from light to heavy, boolits seated in, out, and inbetween. Crimp no crimp.

Today was my best, 100 yards, off bags on a bench, Lyman 311041, COWW +5% tin, sized .309, alum GC, Reloader-7 35.4 grs, boolit seated in .010 from the lands, no crimp. All of the cases from the same lot, all trimmed to the same length, all of the boolits weighed 176 gr +- .3 grains before sizing/lubing. Got all ten shots to stay on a 8 x 11 target, my best yet, really... Usually half go somewhere besides the paper... Now I know for a fact that this rifle will shoot sub MOA with Federal factory ammo, I checked mid frustration just to make sure the scope wasn't changing zero on me.

I'm getting zero leading, barrel looks like it's unfired it's so clean except for a few crumbs. Rifle is new and has only had cast through it except for the 10 rounds of factory for verification.

I'm about ready to sell all my .30 cal stuff and go back to jwords which I know this will shoot. I'm thinking maybe harder alloy but my 14gr 2400 loads were worse and COWW should be fine I would think for that level of loading.

What am I doing wrong???

[fourarmed]

Whenever I start loading for a .30 caliber rifle, I close the bolt, run a quarter inch rod down against the boltface, and put a strip of masking tape around the rod even with the end of the crown. Then I drop a candidate bullet into the chamber and push it firmly into the throat. I run the rod back down the bore until it touches the tip of the bullet, and use the inside jaws of my caliper to measure from the tape to the crown. That gives me the max OAL of a cartridge loaded with that bullet. I lay the bullet and case next to the caliper and see if the bullet is going to fit the case well at that OAL. If so, I try loading it. If not - and that happens a lot - I go on to another bullet. You can save yourself a lot of time and frustration by testing only bullets that fit the throat closely. You may also want to try sizing them .310 or .311 if they will chamber.

[waksupi]

I suspect it could be a twist/boolit mis-match.

[popper]

Houston, we have a problem sized .309. As said, try 310 or 311. WD the COWW/Pb 50/50 or wait a couple weeks before loading. 1400 fps is probably slow for 1:12 twist (2400). Maybe get a real rifle powder?

[high standard 40]

Theses are the three things that I do to achieve accuracy with a cast bullet in a rifle.

1. Use a suitably hard alloy for the pressure levels you are loading.
2. Size the body of the bullet to fit the chamber throat.
3. I size the bullet nose to fit snugly into the rifling and seat the bullet out far enough to achieve this. (bore rider nose)

The bullet must be aligned and supported straight in line with the bore for best accuracy. The three steps I described (especially Step 2 & 3) assure that this happens. I was unable to get suitable accuracy with any Lee bullet (the bullet nose was undersize on the four Lee molds that I have. They measured from .298" to .299" and I needed .300"
A Lyman 311299 mold was also undersize on the nose. I had access to a 314299 mold which had a nose I could use but the body was .004" too large for my chamber. I finally had Accurate Molds cut a mold for me that is to spec as my chamber requires. The system you have been using, just trying different bullets, powder charges, and seating depths can sometimes work, if you get lucky and happen to have a chamber that will fit the bullet you have. This does indeed happen, but it didn't work for me and it sounds like it's not working for you. I had to get a bullet to fit the gun, not try to make a bad fitting bullet work.

[Shiloh]

1:10 is the standard twist for .30 cal. My take is that the 311041 is to short. Before you give up, try a longer boolit. 311284, or 311299 may be candidates.

SHiloh

[cbrick]

Does kinda sound like a boolit fit in the chamber. I don't use any of those boolits so can't comment on throat or bore riding fit with them. Check the throat as fourarmed said. How much freebore do you have with your loaded rounds? I've had my best luck with the rifling just engraving the ogive. Did you slug the bore? Just because it's a 308 does not mean the groove diameter is .308", a perfect example is my 30-30 which has a great bore except that pesky .310" groove diameter.

I gotta ask, why 5% Sn in clip-on WW? In metallurgy with Pb/Sb/Sn alloys the Sn should not exceed the Sb. In clip-on WW it's safe to assume 2% Sb.

When I was looking for a light load around 1900 fps for my 308 I found the RCBS 180 in either FP or SP over 19.0 gr SR4759 worked well. I also use air cooled CWW +2% Sn.

Rick

[lancem]

Well look's like I'll be putting this one to the side for a while. Don't have anything to use to slug the bore or to do a chamber cast. My hide would be hanging on the barn if I bought another mold to try especially if it became know that the other three I bought aren't going to work... Don't have a .310 sizing die to try, could try as cast but I think that would be adding to the confusion and they are GC boolits.

Maybe I'll just stick to cast in the pistols, I never have these problems with them and the targets aren't as far walking to change :)

[nekshot]

as a answer to your question, yes I got one with a rough barrel that is **** on cast and great on jackets. Time is to shot to try beat that one. But that not your problem, sometimes I shoot boolits as cast if they chamber. Accept it as a challenge and enjoy the learning curve!

[Blammer]

I would try two things.

MORE powder, try groups of 5 while increasing powder charges 1/2grain at a time.

or

size the boolit bigger, say .310 or .311

[sundog]

Any 314sumthin sized to as big as will fit the throat. Many (most? all?) M700 308s are 12 twist. If yours is, the 31141 ought to group at a hundred, if it is fat enough. That same boolit is ideal in 30-30 with 12 twist. Run it about 16-1800 with GC and then harden the alloy to go faster. Powders in the 2400/4227 range and up should work.

[DeanWinchester]

I bought a brand new Savage Axis. It would NOT shoot cast worth a hoot. Tried half a dozen different boolit designs and as many powders. Couldn't find a combo it would shoot well. I found some mediocre grouping with one but nothing worth the effort it takes to load them.
With them lazy man bullets, I was grouping just under two inches at a hundred.

Traded it to my buddy who's quite happy with it.

[geargnasher]

Don't blame the rifle. If it groups with J-words it will group with cast. The problem with the RPM threshold theory is that it gets taken out of context through community banter and is then thought to be the end-all, be-all accuracy determinant for cast boolits in rifles. If they don't perform within the recommended range, then something must be wrong with the rifle, right? Well, maybe, but usually not. There is a LOT more to it than keeping velocity in an "easy" window for the twist when trying to achieve rifle accuracy at any velocity. I have a bone-stock Savage hog rifle with the factory, 20" barrel and it shoots 45 2.1's .30 Sil boolit into 1-1/4" all day long at a hundred yards and at a chronographed 2340 FPS using 338RemingtonUltramag's aluminum gas checks and Felix lube, but a lot of out of the box thinking and doing is required. It was ALL done at the loading bench, I made no mods to the rifle other than a crown touch-up (just to make me feel better), in fact it only came out of the plastic, factory stock to do the crown and got retorqued to 35 and 40 inch-pounds (r, f).

Gear

[Wolfer]

I pretty much only shoot 2400 in rifles. IMO 14 gr and a 311041 is too light to burn correctly. I would start at 16 and go up and I'd suspect you would find a sweet spot around 18 or maybe a little above.
My 311041 drops a 309 and I shoot this in 3 different 30-06s a 30-30 and a30-40 krag with excellent accuracy in all.

[Artful]

How long is your throat? How far can you seat out a bullet before you see rifling marks on it?

[tomme boy]

What brass are you using. If it is Winchester, get another type. The Winchester brass is too thin in the neck. You want the brass to fill the neck like the bullet to fit the throat. I shoot mostly Federal as it is thick and soft. Also trim the brass to the same length as it must exit the brass at the same time every time. Get different expanders to try different tension on the bullet. I would also say to get some copper checks from Blammer. They offer less hassle than the aluminum checks. Some can make them shoot, other they just make for a bad range day.

If it is the varmint rifle it is 1-12 twist. At least they were a couple years ago anyway.

[Char-Gar]

We can pick over this or that and tweak this or that, but as I read the OP, this rifles is spraying cast bullets and not grouping them.

My Remington 700 heavy barrel .308 Winchester will shoot cast bullet into MOA if I do my part on any given day. There is no reason the OP's rifles should just spray bullets. This sounds like something mechanical to me and not load related.

My first thought is the barrel is well used and has a substantial build up of jacketed bullet metal fouling that has not been cleaned out prior to being put into service for cast bullets. However the OP says the rifle is new, does that mean brand new or new to him? Barrels do need some break in to give their best accuracy, but 8" groups at 100 yards is beyond the pale.

There is something wrong here that tweaking the load won't cure. He didn't mention bullet lube, I wonder what he is using. Any one of the bullet he mentioned cast from COWW and real gas checks over 16/2400, sized .310, with a decent lube will give him decent if not wonderful groups. I have no experience with these home made aluminum gas checks, so I am suspicious of them.

I tend to think we are missing a piece of vital information here. Like Gear, there is no reason the rifle won't shoot cast bullets if it is as good as he says it is with factory loads. This just doesn't add up and goes again my experience and knowledge.

[lancem]

OK, after sitting and feeling sorry for myself for a couple of minutes I went scrounging in the shop and came up with a piece of 1/4" rod just long enough to slug the barrel. .3085 on the money so sizing to 309 isn't cutting it. Scratched my head for a bit and remembered the first 309 sizing die I got off of ebay, someone had opened it up. I dug till I found it and it sizes to .311 nice and round. I had 10 primed cases left, used my last load since I was still set up for it and loaded the 10 up with the boolit seated so it was into the rifling and being marked about .005. Ran down to the range (having a 200 acre back yard is handy as heck) and I actually got a group. Of course now I'm out of Reloader 7 and probably no hope of getting anymore so I'm going to start back over with 2400 and work things up again with it because I know I can get more of it.

To answer some of the questions in case this can help someone in the future,
I'm using Federal brass, I have some Winchester and IMO it is **** and don't use it. All was once fired and trimmed to length.
With the 311041 my OAL so that rifling marks the boolit is 2.585.
The rifle is new, (really a couple of years old but the first it's been fired) with probably around 150 cast loads and 10 jacketed loads through the barrel.

So I should have slugged the barrel before I started, I didn't think I had what I needed to do it (but didn't look either) and since it may be another month before I go to town (only go when I have to and driving 120 miles for a piece of rod isn't a need to) I decided to skip it and move forward figuring .309 sizing would be good... Lesson learned.. Well going to go out and crank out some new rounds and see where we go with .311 sizing. I'll post back on the results.

[telebasher]

Lots of great tips and advise to be tried or used, so I'll offer my 2cents worth. Just because a sizing die says .310 or 431 doesn't mean that your projectile will emerge and stay at that diameter! Measure, then you'll know. Different alloys will react differently to sizing In my experience. YMMV

[Blammer]

make sure you are flairing the case mouth so your not shaving the boolit when you seat it.

[lancem]

Roger that, I'm measuring after I size to make sure the die is doing what I'm expecting, and Blammer I'm flaring the case so no shaving and I've loaded and pulled a boolit and measured it and it's still .311 so the case isn't sizing it down.

Got 20 rounds loaded ready for tomorrow morning, started at 17 grains of 2400 and worked up .5 grains from there every 5 rounds. Hopefully I'll hit a starting point where I can start playing with the other stuff and get this all pulled together.

After all the rifle loading I've done using Jwords this is like starting over as it seems nothing I know is carrying forward... Old dog new tricks I guess :) Thanks everyone for putting me on the path!

[Blammer]

After all the rifle loading I've done using Jwords this is like starting over as it seems nothing I know is carrying forward... Old dog new tricks I guess :) Thanks everyone for putting me on the path!

Yep, that about sums it up! :)

with one particular load I was working on I didn't get good accuracy until I was near the top of my powder charge list. It finally came up to 'pressure' if you will and then groups shrank to "oh my! that's incredible!" size. :)


sometimes it's the "OBVIOUS" that gets us,hence the recommendation for flair. :)

[45 2.1]

I have a bone-stock Savage hog rifle with the factory, 20" barrel and it shoots 45 2.1's .30 Sil boolit into 1-1/4" all day long at a hundred yards and at a chronographed 2340 FPS using 338RemingtonUltramag's aluminum gas checks and Felix lube, but a lot of out of the box thinking and doing is required. Gear

It'll do better.... keep working on it.

[geargnasher]

After all the rifle loading I've done using Jwords this is like starting over as it seems nothing I know is carrying forward... Old dog new tricks I guess :) Thanks everyone for putting me on the path!

:grin: You're right, you have to think differently with cast as very little translates from jacketed, fitwise anyway. There's a pretty good thread here somewhere discussing the details of properly fitting a cast boolit to a rifle, I know there's a link in Runfiverun's "some tips that may help" thread, we sorta use that for an information dump of advanced topic thread links.


It'll do better.... keep working on it.

Still looking for the right powder and lube tweak. I get lots of little clusters of touching holes, but an honest average is 1-1/4" for multiple, ten-shot groups. Most of the time five will make a 3/4" group, something I'm pretty ecstatic with considering the velocity, short barrel, and the alloy. This is a working gun, dedicated for hunting pigs and coyotes on a ranch that has a ".270 Winchester or better" cartridge requirement so I can't use my leverguns (bummer). Anyway, I can shoot to 300 yards with confidence on large pigs with what I have, it certainly isn't a bench gun.

What do you think about LeverEvolution? I can't seem to find any SR4759.

Gear

[waco]

:grin: You're right, you have to think differently with cast as very little translates from jacketed, fitwise anyway. There's a pretty good thread here somewhere discussing the details of properly fitting a cast boolit to a rifle, I know there's a link in Runfiverun's "some tips that may help" thread, we sorta use that for an information dump of advanced topic thread links.





Still looking for the right powder and lube tweak. I get lots of little clusters of touching holes, but an honest average is 1-1/4" for multiple, ten-shot groups. Most of the time five will make a 3/4" group, something I'm pretty ecstatic with considering the velocity, short barrel, and the alloy. This is a working gun, dedicated for hunting pigs and coyotes on a ranch that has a ".270 Winchester or better" cartridge requirement so I can't use my leverguns (bummer). Anyway, I can shoot to 300 yards with confidence on large pigs with what I have, it certainly isn't a bench gun.

What do you think about LeverEvolution? I can't seem to find any SR4759.

Gear


I just picked up a pound of SR4759 tonight. I've never used it. My .308 project was one of the things I plan on trying this "new to me" powder in.

The gun shop still has 2 cans left.

Looks like it works well in lots of stuff according to my old Lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd addition.

Maybe I'll go get the other two......

[plainsman456]

The size is to small,as for brass PM to follow.

[telebasher]

I just picked up a pound of SR4759 tonight. I've never used it. My .308 project was one of the things I plan on trying this "new to me" powder in.

The gun shop still has 2 cans left.

Looks like it works well in lots of stuff according to my old Lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd addition.

Maybe I'll go get the other two......

FYI, Its on Hodgdens discontinue in 2014 list

[runfiverun]

without reading all the other posts I'd suggest you flat out reduce the load.
by half would probably be about right.

[waco]

FYI, Its on Hodgdens discontinue in 2014 list

Yeah. I heard. Thanks

[tomme boy]

What are you using to expand and flare the mouth? I highly recommend the RCBS neck expander dies. You can adjust the amount of neck tension very easy with these.

[MtGun44]

It has been said already, but . . . . . . .
Larger diameter. Use .310 or .311.

Bill

[guicksylver]

All good advice here.

May I add that those 3 boolits are not the BEST performers, good but not best.

See if you can get your hands on some 311, 312299, 311332.

Check the boolit nose by sticking it in the muzzle, there should be no wobble.

My 311413 and 311041 slide almost to the lube rings BAD !

This is not a precise technique but it will tell you right away if the nose portion
is too small.

[Larry Gibson]

lancem

Your M700 if new and a varmint configuration should have a 12" twist. Even if older with the 10" twist there is no reason it should not shoot cast well, especially if the factory verification ammunition shot well.

Suggestions;

The COWWs with 5% tin is too soft. Reduce the amount of tin in the alloy to 2%. As mentioned there must be a balance of the tin to the antimony for best use.

Are you WQing or ACing the bullets? If WQ'd it's best to wait at least 24 hours before doing any thing to them. If AC'd let them age 7 - 10 days.

Continue sizing at .311.

Use the 311041 or the 311466 initially. Use the one that keeps the GC farthest inside the neck when seat so the front band just touches the leade.

Aluminum GCs? Whose? do the stay on after sizing or can they be removed with a fingernail? If they are not tight on the GC shank get a box of Hornady crimp on GCs and try those.

If using 2400 start at 16 gr with either bullet. With the 311041 a filler may not be needed but with the lighter 311466 I'd use a 1/2 - 3/4 gr Dacron filler.

If you go back to RL7 or a similar medium burning powder start at 24 gr and use the Dacron filler. Either the 311041 or the 311466 will be good bullets for use there.

What Lube?

When you find a good load with either of those bullets, and you should, using 2400 and want to move onto a little higher velocity then that 311466 is just the ticket. If your M700 has the 12" twist then you should achieve excellent accuracy upwards of 2300+ fps with it using a slower burning powder, an appropriate alloy, correct hardness of the bullet, a good softer lube and good loading technique. It is not difficult.

Larry Gibson

[high standard 40]

I see many here advising to size to .310" or .311" and the truth is that many factory produced rifles have a chamber that requires a larger bullet to fill the chamber throat. But that is not always the case. I have a Rem 700 30-06 and in my gun, .310" won't chamber. I have to size to .309" and that has been confirmed with a chamber slug. My rifle shoots very near MOA with bullets sized to .309" because in my case they fill the throat. The best advice to the OP is to measure that chamber and use this information to determine how to size and seat his bullets.

[armorer59]

My favorite .30 cal mold is the 311284! Has performed well in several rifles including my Garand.



1:10 is the standard twist for .30 cal. My take is that the 311041 is to short. Before you give up, try a longer boolit. 311284, or 311299 may be candidates.

SHiloh

[lancem]

96654

OK this is from this morning, the best group of the 4 loadings I took down to the range, 18 gr of 2400, boolits sized .311 this is at 100yds. I'm thinking I should be seeing something much better, am I expecting too much?

I came back to the shop and did a pound cast as described in the sticky by Goodsteel, pretty scary for a first time thing but everything came out good. Though now that I have it I'm not sure what I am looking at, or looking for. The camera battery died so it's charging and I'll get a good picture up so maybe I can get some opinions on what I have chamber wise.

I'll try and describe what I'm seeing, from the case mouth the chamber extends at case neck diameter for about .100" past the case neck, it appears that the case collapsed a bit in the shoulder area, probably not completely full of lead so this part of the measurement may be exaggerated a bit. Measuring the diameter just past that in the smooth throat area is .3112. The smooth throat area is .250 long and the bore diameter (rifled area) measures .3092.

Larry,
To your questions, the boolits were WQ and all are over a week old, I am sizing as I use them so that was just last night. I'm using Gator GC's, if I remember correctly they are .013 thick. I am seating them separately from the sizing operation and once sized they are impossible to get off without using a tool of some kind. I am using Ben's red for lube and it is doing fantastic as far as zero leading.

I'm going to go out now and fire up the pot, change alloy to COWW +2% tin and make some more as I'm pretty much out.

[Char-Gar]

If those are 1" squares on the target, I make the group a smidge less than 3" which would be 3 MOA. I take it that is better than what you had before. You should expect groups at least half of that. However 3 MOA is a decent starting place to start to tweak and reduce group size.

I would only make four suggestions;

1. Drop the powder charge to 16/2400

2. Don't water drop those bullets, but let them air cool. ACWW is plenty hard for what your are trying to do and water droping produces an uneven hardness. For use in a rifle, if a fellow must harden his bullets (which is seldom needed) then an oven temper produces better bullets. I have found water dropping to degrade the accuracy of my rifle bullets, therefore I don't do it. ACWW with a smidge of tin (1 -2%) to help casting quality, works just fine for gas check rifles bullets up to about 1.9 to 2.1K fps depending on the quality/smoothness of the rifle's barrel.

3. Don't clean your barrel after each range session (if you do). Most barrels used with cast bullets need to take on a "season" of bullet lube. It will take 50 to a hundred rounds to do that. After that if you want to clean, just used a solvent like Ed's Red on a patch followed by dry patch or two. Even then it will take ten rounds or so, to get the rifle back to shooting it's normal groups.

Even it a rifle has not been cleaned, the first 5 to 10 rounds will produce larger groups due to lube in the barrel being cold/hard. It takes a few round to warm the barrel up and get things going right.

Shooting ten to twenty rounds at a range session won't get the rifle back to doing it's thing after a through cleaning.

Load up at least 40 rounds, and plink at something for the first 30 rounds and then get serious about shooting for a group with the last ten. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

4. Don't jackrabbit around with different bullets, stick to one until you get everything tweaked then you can try others. Of the bullet you listed, I would use 311466 first. This is a tried and proved Loverin design that works well in the 308 round and 1-12 twist barrels.

[white eagle]

may want to move into the 50 yd bench as well
when I was starting to set up for cast I would pull my hair out trying to get accuracy at 100 yds
I moved to 50 started to get good groups moved back to 100
now this is not you cartridge but my 30-30 win 311041 I put Dacron on top of a charge of 4227 and that helped out as well
good luck keep after it

[tomme boy]

Next time try to shoot the rifle Free Recoil. Bet it will drop the groups in half.

[Doc Highwall]

I am shooting a 30:1 alloy at 1800-2000 fps with no leading with groups well under 1" at 100 yards. I size my bullets .3100", .3105", and .3110" and I am in the process of making expanders in order to test both bullet size and neck tension that I will write up all the details here for everyone.

[tomme boy]

Doc, Can't wait. I feel it makes a big difference. Especially if all have the same tension. I am starting to set aside the ones that feel different when seating. My groups have really improved doing this. I am not getting many unexplained fliers.

[Doc Highwall]

tomme boy, right now I use a .309" floating expander for .310" bullets that gives a .001" neck tension. Now if I load a .3105" bullet I have two changes, a bullet that is .0005" larger and a neck tension that is .0005" tighter as well not knowing which change did what.

I have already made sizer dies in .3100", .3105", and .3110" and I just finished the cad drawing for my expanders in .3070", .3075", .3080" for jacketed bullets and .3090", .3095", .3100", and .3105" for cast bullets. Now when I go from a .3100" to a .3105" I will be able to just change the expander to .3095" keeping .001" neck tension with only one change the bullet diameter.

Conversely now I will be able to use one bullet diameter and just change neck tension to see what gives the best accuracy controlling the tests with only one variable either bullet diameter or neck tension.

Here is the link to the post I made about the expander die with the floating expander.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?90241-Modifying-Dies-For-Cast-Bullet-Shooting

[Doc Highwall]

Here is a link with pictures of targets I shot with cast bullets using these dies. One at 100 yards measures .305" and one at 300 yards measures 1.610".

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?104443-Target-Shooters-Do-you-Sort-your-Bullets
See posts 20 and 23.

I would have posted the pictures here but I am having trouble doing it right now for some reason.

[Alex Hamilton]

96819
Hi, Lancem,
I am almost certain that 35.4grs of Reloader 7 is an overload for practically any cast lead bullet. Also, your alloy is probably too soft as cast and with 5% tin it will soften with age, because the tin content is greater than antimony. You are not getting any leading because the bullet obturates the bore well and the gas check scrapes it with every shot, but the bullet itself gets deformed by high pressure. I am sending 2 attachments - I hope they get to you OK. Red Dot is a very fast powder and capable of top accuracy, but only at low velocities. In one attachment is the scan of the actual target fired with .308W/7.62mmNATO target rifle with standard peep sights and fired unsupported - i.e. off the elbows - at 50 yards. The other attachment is the actual test group, also fired off the elbows, over the chronograph with 160gr Lee bullet and 27grs of Reloader 7. Note that the muzzle velocity is close to 2200ft/sec and you are using 8.4grs more powder with a heavier bullet!!!!!! You are not trying to duplicate jacketed bullet loads, are you?

If the only source of alloy you have is Wheelweights, add not more than 1% tin and try with 16 to 17grs of 2400. Also, try 8 - 9 grs Red Dot with the bullet without the gas check. Seat the bullets so that they touch the rifling and do not crimp. Also make sure that the case mouths are belled out slightly so that the brass does not shave the bullet as it is seated. Let us know how you get with these loads - size of groups at 100yds. If you want to use Reloader 7, reduce the charge to 20grs and start over. Check the bore after a few shots. If you see granules of unburned powder, or signs of soot on fired cases the pressure is too low, so increase the charge by half grain and try again. My gut feeling is that by the time you achieve a complete powder combustion the muzzle velocity will exceed that of which your alloy is capable of, but you might get away with it. Keep an eye out for harder alloy like linotype and use that for velocities round 2200ft/sec.

Get back to me when you tried the above and I will try help further.

Good shooting,

Alex in UK

[ValorsMinion]

I got my Remington 700 308 with 1:10 twist to shoot best with cast by sizing to .311 and using varget behind the lee 200 grain round nose. Alloy is 50/50 + 2% tin water dropped from the mould. It shoots right at an inch at 100 yards with what I estimate to be around 1800fps based on published loads. For hunting I upped it to what I estimate ~2100fps and still keep the groups under 2". IMR 4895 and varget also did decent with the 309041. I found slower powders behind a heavy boolit worked better. I could not get a single pistol powder to shoot accurately above about 12-1400fps book loads and even then, the accuracy was 2' at 50 yards.

I would try a fatter boolit and a slower powder.

[Doc Highwall]

If you check out the link in post 44 these groups were shot with 22lr indoor range lead with 3% tin added.

[lancem]

OK, I've been on the sidelines here waiting for some boolits to come in from RickinTN. He has several Remington 30 cals and fought the same demons that I've been dealing with just that I think he has a lot better idea of what was going on than I do/did. Anyway he worked with Tom at Accurate Molds and came up with a design to fit his Remington's chambers, the 31-180R. Yesterday in the mail the hotly anticipated package arrived and this morning I loaded up 20 rounds with Rick's suggested load of 16 gr 2400.

Finally success, the group should have been smaller but I was so darn excited at finally having this rifle actually hitting what I was aiming at that I wasn't doing my part as well as I could have. Anyway, finding a boolit that fits correctly is certainly the key, needless to say this has been a journey and I've learned a lot. Thanks to everyone and especially RickinTN for helping me get this straightened out.

Well I'm off to order a mold!!!

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

My Remmy700 in 308 loves 16 grns of 2400 especially behind NOE's 314299
sized to .311".

[MtGun44]

Great news.

16 gr of 2400 is one of the three "magic" loads for cast in any of the "late 19th century to middle
20th century full sized bottleneck military rifle cartridges". The other two are 10 gr of Unique and
13 gr Red Dot. All are mild and usually quite accurate. Feel free to bump them up a few grains
if your gun prefers.

Bill

[robg]

keep the gas check in the case neck .works for me