.30-30: To G.C. or not to G.C.?

[Bigslug]

Picked up a Springfield 840 bolt action (AKA Stevens 325/Savage 340) a couple years ago with the intent to use it as a cast boolit plinker. I've been running a gas-checked 190 grain spitzer with 2400 at about 1850fps. That mold was purchased for use in .30-06's, and it's about time to purchase a mold that's better suited to this gun.

I'm looking at the 170 grain flat nose and RNFP offerings from Accurate - I might even have Tom cut something a little heavier. I would like to avoid the use of a gas check mold if possible, which should be no issue with the mouse fart pistol powder loads, but would like the input of the hive mind with regards to taking it to full-speed .30-30 specs.

Looking at the Hodgdon website, they're listing max-load velocities for jacketed 170 grainers at 1900-2300fps with pressures of 30,000 - 36,000 CUP. Obviously, the velocities are different, but the pressures are about identical to the .357 and .44 magnum loads that we would use without checks and not give it a second thought.

If it matters, the lube will be Ben's Red with 5% additional beeswax.

What say you? Should I clad its butt in copper, or no?:drinks:

[Wolfer]

You can try it for yourself but I'm betting you'll need a check before you get past 1500 fps.
Every gun is different though and there's only one way to find out. Woody

[JeffinNZ]

I don't like you chances of success at those velocities and pressures without some form of protection of the boolit bottom.

[Ben]

Bigslug

What say you? Should I clad its butt in copper, or no?

Full speed 30-30 loads & pressures, without a gas check you're about to get to remove a lot of lead fouling from your bore .

You know I'm a big fan of Ben's Red, but even Ben's Red will not handle this kind of stress on the base of a .30 cal. bullet at these pressures.

[williamwaco]

You CAN load'em without the check.

You will not be happy with the accuracy.

I don't load'em hot but I find that at 1400/1500 fps, groups will increase about 50 percent with no check.

As you push them faster the difference will be greater.

[dverna]

I would order a GC mold. I have two .30/30's I will be loading for and plan on making my own GC's as I will use them on the .308's as well so it is easy to justify.

[CGT80]

I vote for GC for full speed loads. I am running an NOE Saeco 315 plain base in my win 94 30-30. It is going 1300 fps. 100 yards on a 12" steel plate is easy. 160 yards on a 14" plate is giving me fits. I was hitting 160 with a slightly lighter rn pb boolit, but it was a single cavity mold, so I got the new mold. My 30-06 will send the 315 pb boolit to the 160 yard plate with no problem, with a similar load to the 30-30. I could only imagine the issues I may have if I tried to push these to full speed.

I am thinking I will need to go to a faster boolit to get to the 230 yard berm on our range, and everything I have read here, makes me not want to bother doing it with a plain base boolit. It is easy to add gas check for the hotter loads. I could even get a 315 in a GC style from NOE (assuming it is in stock), to compliment my pb mold. I use aluminum gas check for my 30 carbine bullets at 1800 fps. They are working well (haven't tested past 50 yards yet) and I am using unknown alloy that isn't very hard. Others may be able to make a plain base go over 1300 fps with accuracy, but I am not that deep into this yet. I'll take the easy button................a gas check.

[Lead Fred]

I load to levels of 30 WCF rounds. Full power & Wife's rounds. Both get GCs, the Wife's dont need them, they only do 1600fps, but what the heck, Pat's check maker is so much fun, I make 1000s of them, mise well use them.

[Wayne Smith]

I'll suggest a different take, since you are talking about a new mold. You already have a gc mold that you can use in that rifle. You don't need every cartridge loaded full speed, you may want some plinking loads, something to carry for short range use, etc. Get this mold a PB mold and use it for less than full speed loads. You might even invest in the little Lee 115 gr mold and use it for squirrels! The 30-30 is a very versatile cartridge, don't limit yourself so much.

[kenyerian]

I am really happy with the Ranch Dog Designs and now NOE is making them with and without gas checks. I all ready have the 165 w/GC and will probably try this one next . http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=71_75&products_id=521&osCsid=7ntqs2pjomc4lk4rv4qnu5mvf6 . A TL311 165Gr. RF 4 cavity PB (RD).

[shredder]

In my 30-30 I can not push my plain base 160 grain over 1450 without the accuracy going away. I say that after much experimentation with powders, fillers, hardness, lube, and barrell condition. It was a very long dead end for me, because I just had to find out for myself, and I hope to be able to help prevent you from going through that yourself!

GC loads with a 150 or 170 flat nose allow me to load up to the max for the cartridge. That is, my personal max of 1800- 1900. You can go higher, but my experience has not been consistently good at 2000+fps. I have found for the 30-30, 1850 is all I need for any deer that walks within sane 30-30 range.

[osteodoc08]

I'd GC it if its gonna be a working gun. If you're wanting to launch them slow and keep ranges short for paper, have at it.

[Bigslug]

Well, much of the response so far has been good to give me a feel of where checks become necessary. It sounds like even a significantly "de-tuned" .30-30 probably wants them. Now I just have to figure out what I'm DOING with this rifle, and how much de-tuning to do. As wacky as the .22LR situation has become, I may just download this thing to taking the place of some of my .22 shooting.

Might have to look into home-made and PB checks...

[Lever-man]

I'll suggest a different take, since you are talking about a new mold. You already have a gc mold that you can use in that rifle. You don't need every cartridge loaded full speed, you may want some plinking loads, something to carry for short range use, etc. Get this mold a PB mold and use it for less than full speed loads. You might even invest in the little Lee 115 gr mold and use it for squirrels! The 30-30 is a very versatile cartridge, don't limit yourself so much.

I really like this particular Lee mold. It is my first cast mold for my 30-30. GC'ed and tumble lubed, loaded over 7 gr of unique, it will do one ragged hole at 25 yds using a Williams Ace in The Hole peep. My 22's don't do any better!!

[TCFAN]

I have 4 30-30's and none of them like a plain base boolit pushed over 1200 to 1400fps.My vote is to get a gas check mold and one of the gas check makers and never look back. A FCIII will let you make a enough checks in a hour that will let you shoot for a month.....Terry

[Doc Highwall]

When it comes to plain base bullets just think of the velocity of a 22lr at 1255 fps and that should about your maxium velocity with out a gas check.

I shoot a 311041 Plain base bullet over 7.2 grains over Unique kind of like a big 22lr.

[popper]

My results are like tcfan - can't get a PB to shoot accurate over ~1200 fps. A 31-165 sans GC is good with 15 gr 2400, 1400+, haven't chrony'd the 16 gr load yet but accuracy is there. Push the same boolit over 2400 fps in 308, GC'd of course. Tom has a cat 165 without crimp groove so you can seat where ever you want. My 336 didn't like the heavy boolits. The RD 165 didn't work quite as well.

[grouch]

CBE used to cut a mold with one cavity gas check and one cavity plain base, no extra charge, just by backing out the cherry to eliminate the gas check step. Gets you 2 molds in one and you get to try both.
Grouch

[quilbilly]

One thing about gas checks is that they give you a lot of flexibility. You can shoot CB's anything from subsonic to double sonic. That being said, I am looking for the right PB load for my 308 right now even though I already have a great gas check load. I am at 1450 fps with not a hint of leading but the 100 yd group is at 3-1/2 inches versus MOA with the GC boolit at 1850 fps. Haven't started the same test with my 30/30 yet but like the 308, I already have a great gas check load for it at the MV of 1550. Hey Grouch - Queen Charlottes Islands!! I am impressed. I thought Quilcene seemed nicely remote from the big city.

[paul edward]

Use the gas checks. Loads over 1200 fps may give poor accuracy and may barrel leading.

The Savage 340 is a good rifle for cast boolits. With it's box magazine, you can safely use pointy bullets. Rifling is 1 turn in 12", so it is not great with heavier bullets.

I've been using the Lee C309-160R with gas checks, sized .309 in my 340 with a couple of different loads. Twelve grains of Unique is a nice light load. For a bit more power, 17 grains of IMR-4198 ought to clock at about 1600 fps.