Some stiff Red Dot loads

[161]

9622696227
I loaded some of the Hornady 158 SWCHP with this data in 38sp. cases and shot them in a 357. 4.9 grains made 1000 FPS out of a 2.25 barrel. Easy extraction shot very well at self defense ranges. Anybody ever use data this hot? Definitely a +p load.

[scattershot]

I remember reading that Jeff Cooper used this load for his wife's snubby back in the day. Seems pretty warm, but useful on a limited basis, I would guess.

[bhn22]

It's beyond +P and way off the charts now, a 357 mag powder charge in a 38 Spl case. Your book is probably 30 years old. Compare it to todays pressure tested data using modern equipment.

[161]

Actually it's 41 years old. I know it's old and out dated, I didn't explain myself very well. I'm curious if any of the older folk on here ever used this much RD in a 38 sp. back in the day.

[dverna]

I see no problem in loading .38 Spl close to .357 pressure IF you are shooting them in a .357 firearm AND you are SURE those .38's will not find themselves into a .38 Spl only firearm. I plan on doing that with my .38's as I have over 4000 .38 cases and all my guns are .357's.

Be aware you cannot use .357 data; as the case volume in the .38 is less and pressures will be higher as a result. That load seems too hot to me and I would certainly contact Alliant to see what they suggest for RD at +P+ levels in a .38 and what they suggest as a max in .357 (and you need to be less than the .357 load).

This is NOT a good idea if there is any chance of your reloads getting into a .38 and is NOT recommended. (Attorneys take note.) But in my case, I feel it is perfectly safe.

Just a thought. It may be a great application for coated bullets. Red = +P+ loads - not for use in a .38

Don Verna

[Scharfschuetze]

I bought that Volume when it was first published in the early 70s and about wore it out until I replaced it in the early 80s with Volume III. I didn't use Red Dot back then, and limited most of my 38 Special loads to cast and swaged boolits at the time. I can't comment on the load in question, but I used the book to load everything from 38 Specials through 45/70s. All in all, given the technology of the time, it was a sound and useful tome.

All that said, given today's technology of pressure testing and accumulated knowledge, that Red Dot load does look a bit stiff for a 38 Special revolver other than perhaps a 38 Heavy Duty Smith & Wesson (N Frame).

[bhn22]

I've used the load in the past, and have had cases stick because of it. It gets better if you drop the bullet weight a bit, and going to cast bullets from jacketed quiets the whole situation down. My GP100 doesn't mind the Cooper load, but I have a couple of S&Ws that strenuously object to the treatment. 357s are only rated for 35,000 PSI anymore anyway. Originally, it was something like 45,000 CUP.

[white eagle]

I see no difference in the load data
chances are
if it worked then why would it not work now

[161]

Wouldn't shoot it in a J frame either. Just asking a question here not going to do it. But my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows 4.4 gr. of Bullseye as a +p. With Bullseye slightly faster that Red Dot is 4.9 RD really that hot?

[35remington]

Red Dot is as fast or faster than Bullseye. Thinking that Red Dot is slower than Bullseye will get you in some amount of trouble here. It is a common but erroneous perception.

And yes, it is that hot if you're getting 1000 fps from a snubbie using a 158. It is past Plus P. Plus P loads don't get 1000 fps from a four inch using the same weight bullet.

[161]

Red Dot is as fast or faster than Bullseye. Thinking that Red Dot is slower than Bullseye will get you in some amount of trouble here. It is a common but erroneous perception.

And yes, it is that hot if you're getting 1000 fps from a snubbie using a 158. It is past Plus P. Plus P loads don't get 1000 fps from a four inch using the same weight bullet.
You'er right Red Dot is number #8 and Bullseye is #13 on the burn rate chart I looked at. I stand corrected.

[bhn22]

My main concern is that it's a 357 magnum level load in a 38 Spl case. I tried to find pressure data for it without success. In a 357 gun (I know you have at least one GP100) it should be okay, but there are better ways to get 1000 FPS, even if you only have 38 spl brass to work with. BTW. I have fired this load through a 357 J frame, and it's pretty vicious. It also stuck the brass in the chambers. My M65 also objected strenuously to it. That was when I gave it up, and like Col. Cooper, went to a bigger gun. Like I said earlier, if you drop the bullet weight to 135-140 gr, it appears it should fall right in line. The current favorite powder for hot 38 Spl +P appears to be Power Pistol, though SR 4756 is right in there.

[161]

I loaded 6 and tried them before I started this thread. They are hot, and like has been said if there were more they could end up in a light framed 38 sp. Load data has changed over the years. Just thought it was interesting.