30/06 and the 311284 lyman or 170 F Lee?

[butch2570]

howdy fellas, have some needed info to get from you classic '06' guys. I have a 700 rem 22'' in a 30-06 that i want to be a dedicated boolit rifle in a 10 twist. My question is this what kind of loads would i be looking for with this if i were wanting to bang steel out to maybe 400 yards and whitetails out to a max of say 200 yds with a lyman 311284 at 210 grains or possibly the Lee flat nose at 170gr both gc . Secondly what kind of velocity is going to be optimum for this 10 twist for these ranges , should this work for this round? I have a 308 in a rem vtr that is a 12 twist but don't really want this to be my boolit rifle unless the 06 has trouble finding the sweet spot BTW.

[10x]

If you use a gas check and size those bullets to 0.310 you will be happy with the results. I would use the Lyman for hunting.
Work up a load and check for accuracy. I have found that the lee 150 and lee 170 grain bullets give me the best accuracy out of a Santa Barbara 30/06 at 1750 fps. This is with wheel weight (8 lbs ww mixed with 2 lbs lead and 2 oz tin) alloy. I can hit a steel gong at 275 yards ten shots out of ten with the 170 grain lee using IMR 3031 at 1750 fps.
I have found that expansion and velocity are a trade off. Softer bullets can not be driven as fast as harder bullets unless the softer bullet is paper patched. I have used 50/50 wheel weight /pure lead and discovered that accuracy starts to fall off at 1500 fps. Harden the alloy to 8 lb ww /2lb pure lead and I can get better velocity. I have done expansion tests and have discovered a soft lead bullet will mushroom while a harder lead bullet will act just like a Full Metal Jacket on live game. (there was a time when we got 4 mule deer doe tags plus a buck tag). The 8lb ww/ 2lb pure pb was simply to hard to expand properly at 1700 fps on a mule deer doe unless it hit a bone. The 50/50 ww pure lead mix did expand at 1450 fps. All shots were under 50 yards and the hard bullets would shoot right through without expanding. The soft bullets would give a classic mushroom and if not under the hide on the offside would leave a dime sized exit wound.

[Larry Gibson]

Cast of the right alloy, sized, lubed and GC'd correctly the 311284 would be the choice for bangin' steel out to 400 yards. Use a medium to slow powder (4895, Varget, 4064, RL 15, 4350, RL19, 4831 and RL22) and push for 1900 - 2000 fps, perhaps a bit higher. Test loads at 100 and 200 yards looking for linear expansion of the group between the ranges. If the 200 yard group is non-linear then reduce velocity.

The Lee 170 would be my choice for whitetails but the same 311284 load as above would do also, especially if the nose was softened and slightly HP'd with a 1/8" Forster HP tool.

Larry Gibson

[butch2570]

Cast of the right alloy, sized, lubed and GC'd correctly the 311284 would be the choice for bangin' steel out to 400 yards. Use a medium to slow powder (4895, Varget, 4064, RL 15, 4350, RL19, 4831 and RL22) and push for 1900 - 2000 fps, perhaps a bit higher. Test loads at 100 and 200 yards looking for linear expansion of the group between the ranges. If the 200 yard group is non-linear then reduce velocity.

The Lee 170 would be my choice for whitetails but the same 311284 load as above would do also, especially if the nose was softened and slightly HP'd with a 1/8" Forster HP tool.

Larry Gibson

thanks for the starting info i have alot of these recommendations , you have given me a good place to start with this project,as i was a little concerned with the twist / velocity / powder..

[CastingFool]

Good information, I have the same rifle, and just picked up a Lee 309-170-F mold.

[williamwaco]

All the above but I would size them .311.

[10x]

All the above but I would size them .311.

0.311" would work as well. I struggled for years with inconsistent accuracy from bullets sized at 0.309. Stepping up the size die to 0.310 and 0.311 dropped group size considerably - all other things (Powder, primer, bullet, case) being equal. An old timer once told me the best way to size a bullet is when you pull the trigger. The only time you have a cast bullet that is too large is when it is difficult to seat the cartridge in the chamber because the neck of the case is too large.

[Blammer]

sized to .309 and shot out of my Rem 700 30-06

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/File0153.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/Targets/File0153.jpg.html)

This one clocks at 1850fps and is the 311284 you want.
these are just air cooled WW's , I imagine if you cast them harder you could push the velocity a bit more.
As these stand I killed a doe at about 160 yds with it.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/File0150.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/Targets/File0150.jpg.html)

[butch2570]

thanks blammer , that's exactly the kind of thing i hope to end up with here as soon as the weather breaks here and get a chance to get out. My rifle has a long throat though, how far off the lands are you with that load? This is a newer mold dropping .309 ac ww ,just going to do a little tinkering first before i start going bigger ,so i can see where i stand with it. Thanks!

[10x]

thanks blammer , that's exactly the kind of thing i hope to end up with here as soon as the weather breaks here and get a chance to get out. My rifle has a long throat though, how far off the lands are you with that load? This is a newer mold dropping .309 ac ww ,just going to do a little tinkering first before i start going bigger ,so i can see where i stand with it. Thanks!

It drops 0.309" - then your mileage may vary. I would size it to 0.310 to seat the gas check (and not reduce bullet diameter) and shoot this lubed and as cast.

[Blammer]

the nose slightly engraves, the driving bands just kiss.

[bubunu]

Hi, Im new here, so please pardon my newbieness, but I saw your #311284 100yard group, and saw that the overall length is 3.270. I was wondering if the bullets are bore riding the rifling, or not, I have a Howa m1500 chambered for the 30-06, and I cast the #311284 bullets, but they need to be pushed so far back in the case for it the chamber. this scares me a lot, but if I don't do this, the bullets, that are sized to .309 stick in the rifling, and make it extremely hard to extract.

thank you for your time!

[Blammer]

when you extract a boolit where are the rifling marks on it?

I'll bet they are near the nose of the boolit. MY guess is you are 'bending' or 'squishing' or otherwise deforming the nose when sizing it.

simple test, mike each section of the nose. Then size, then mike it again. Same readings or not?

[butch2570]

Long throat.97543 It's about .232 it's a stretch.

[butch2570]

I have a better pound cast but can't seem to get it uploaded. Any way this 06 throat is way longer than my other two. the top round is seated for the front driving band to kiss the lands. The throat dia. is .311, the bore is .302 and the groove .309.

[butch2570]

hopefully this picture will upload blammer,97614

[bubunu]

thank you so much, and i appolozize for the late reply, my computer hasent been working for a while.

[bubunu]

the nose slightly engraves, the driving bands just kiss.

Thank you guys for all the help!!! I went out today, with my reloads consisting of #311285 bullets that came out as 218gr with gas check and lube, and 33 grains of MR 4831 with an overal length of 3.266", I was able to group all 8 shots just under a inch at 50 yards!, thank you guys so much for all your help, I cant wait to see better results!!!

From,
Will