PID Question?

[Mike W1]

Seem to have a problem today. I've used the unit to cast 5-6 times and after auto tuning it usually stayed within 2° of the setting. Today it was jumping around about 30° either side of the setting. The only changes other than the set value and alarms were that I had set up my lube/sizer with it and of course changed the settings to do that I did try auto tuning 3 or 4 times today and then pretty much set the settings back to factory default and tried auto tuning again. Just seems kind of wierd as it worked great casting before and fine with the luber/sizer.

It's a Auber 2352 with 25A SSR and I have the little socket so I can plug either TC in.

One physical change, I did have an extra 120v neon left over so that is hooked onto the output of the SSR but doesn't seem to me that should harm anything.

Any ideas what to try next?????

[Walter Laich]

try removing the neon and see what happens. Stranger things have happened.
only change one thing at a time and check the results.

[el34]

Actually the neon lamp really can't cause what you're seeing. The sizer and the casting pot will operate with different P and I and D values, did you force it to re-run autotune?

[Mike W1]

Actually the neon lamp really can't cause what you're seeing. The sizer and the casting pot will operate with different P and I and D values, did you force it to re-run autotune?

Oh definitely. Ran AT at least 3 times before I took everything back to factory config and then ran AT again. I can't see how the neon on the output end could affect things but if I get back out tomorrow gonna take the neon out of the circuit and run AT again, just in case.

[el34]

gonna take the neon out of the circuit
Give it a shot- at the very least it'll scratch the neon from the suspicion list. Maybe Auber or Frozone could shed some light. From what I know you did the right things.

The over/undershoot you're seeing screams of a need to set proper PID values which AT should do. A weak thought is to go through the menu and read out the P and I and D values once it is working and write them down. And for both the sizer and the pot.

[Frozone]

Maybe Auber or Frozone could shed some light. .....

1 outa 2 ain't bad.

[Mike W1]

I can't saw 100% yet but I believe the socket/outlet for the 110V may be the issue. The Line side of it doesn't feel "solid" when you grab the wires to it. Snugged it up, took the neon bulb out of the circuit, reset everything to factory and ran auto tune AGAIN and it worked fine. Put the neon bulb back in and it still works fine. Going to buy a new socket/outlet and replace it. The neutral and grounding connections felt fine on the old one, just the line side felt "iffy". Go figure!

I did record the figures after it auto tuned for future reference!

[w0fms]

Well, make sure your neon bulb has a built in dropping resistor, or one in series with the appropriate value. When I was little and everyone had landlines one of my favorite pranks was to get a NE2 bulb without resistor from RadioShack and put it across tip and ring on phone lines.

Interesting.. it would draw enough current on a ring to answer the phone, but then, once the AC ring would disappear, so would the current draw and then the line would hang right up. So one ring and it would hang up..

I would imagine across straight AC though you'd pop a breaker.. most Neon indicators have resistors built into the plastic housing.

Glad to hear that you are back up though...

[Mike W1]

Well, make sure your neon bulb has a built in dropping resistor, or one in series with the appropriate value. When I was little and everyone had landlines one of my favorite pranks was to get a NE2 bulb without resistor from RadioShack and put it across tip and ring on phone lines.

Interesting.. it would draw enough current on a ring to answer the phone, but then, once the AC ring would disappear, so would the current draw and then the line would hang right up. So one ring and it would hang up..

I would imagine across straight AC though you'd pop a breaker.. most Neon indicators have resistors built into the plastic housing.

Glad to hear that you are back up though...

How would I know if it has a resistor built in it? Tossed the package but don't recall seeing any mention of such on it but then wouldn't have been looking for it either.

[el34]

All of the neon panel-mount lamps from Radio Shack have a built-in resistor. The ones that are just the glass capsule bulb (if still available) with two bare wires coming out are lamp only.

Congrats for finding your prob! :drinks:

[Walter Laich]

Way to go! sometimes it's the little things that drive you crazy.
When I was teaching I was 'computer expert' for the campus (elementary school).
Teacher couldn't get printer to work.
I came in and plugged it in 110V
Worked fine
it's the little things.....

[dikman]

Glad you found the problem, but saying that the active side felt "iffy" is a bit of a worry. For all you guys messing around with mains voltage (whether 110v or 220-240v) please be careful! Make sure that all your connections are tight, cables secured if possible and insulated if necessary. If the active wire comes adrift, or touches something it shouldn't, there is a distinct possibility that you could be injured, if you're lucky, or pushing up daisies if you're not!

(Our kitchen is being re-built, and the other day the electrician got a boot from touching the wrong thing. It shows how easily it can happen, so we amateurs should be doubly cautious when working with this stuff.

[Mike W1]

Glad you found the problem, but saying that the active side felt "iffy" is a bit of a worry. For all you guys messing around with mains voltage (whether 110v or 220-240v) please be careful! Make sure that all your connections are tight, cables secured if possible and insulated if necessary. If the active wire comes adrift, or touches something it shouldn't, there is a distinct possibility that you could be injured, if you're lucky, or pushing up daisies if you're not!

(Our kitchen is being re-built, and the other day the electrician got a boot from touching the wrong thing. It shows how easily it can happen, so we amateurs should be doubly cautious when working with this stuff.

When I was talking "iffy" I didn't mean my connection which was tight. I meant the terminal of the socket itself would wiggle, the wire stayed snug under the retaining screw. I replaced the socket today.

I'm actually wondering if the auto tune didn't function quite right with my numerous tries. I reset the PID to factory, still have the neon in the circuit and AGAIN ran auto tune. Worked fine and noted that I, P, and D were the only things that auto tune changed. I'm thinking when I change from the lead pot settings to the lube heater settings it might be a good idea to just go back to factory settings and run auto tune again.???????????????????????

[dikman]

Glad I misunderstood your use of "iffy". I've had the odd power outlet do the same thing. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to PIDs, I'm still working my way through the various settings and trying to make sense of them! Seems to me, though, that your suggestion should work. As I understand it, the factory settings are fairly general, they're just not optimised for our specific needs (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).