Any place for Small Rifle Primer in 357 Lever?

[SniderBoomer]

I am all out of Small Pistol primer. I do have a large stock of standard Small Rifle primers.

My favorite loads are around the 358429 cast Keith boolit using Alliant 2400, H110 or Lil' Gun.

Can I use the Small Rifle primer in any loads only used in my 357 1894c carbine ?

[skeet1]

Yes you can use the SR primers as long as you make sure that they 1. seat flush or lower in the case, 2. and that you back off your load and work back up.

Ken

[Gibbs44]

Lee reloading manual calls for a small pistol primer in the 357 magnum rifle. I would not substitute small rifle primers, I imagine it could result in significantly higher pressures. Perhaps you could find a member close by that has a similar problem with small pistol primers and make a trade.

[gundownunder]

I use CCI small rifle primers exclusively, in both my 1894C and also my Ruger Security Six.
I don't know about other brands of primer but I understand that CCI SR and SP are identical except for the box they come in.

[BK7saum]

They are not supposed to be the same. They are spec'd to take different pressures. While they are the same size, the cup thickness is supposed to be different thicknesses. I read detailed description of primer details listing their differences; thickness, height, diameter, brissance?, etc.

[dragon813gt]

I don't know about other brands of primer but I understand that CCI SR and SP are identical except for the box they come in.

Wrong. SP Magnum and SR are pretty much the same but CCI will not tell you they're the same.

My take is that is using SR primers is the same as using SP Magnum primers. But you need to work the loads up. If you were using H110 then you should have been using a Magnum primer to begin w/. I only use SR primers w/ H110/W296 in my 1894C. I don't like having to stock primers for one cartridge. Which is what SP Magnum would be for me.

[Artful]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?130216-Effect-of-different-primers-on-loads

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0;wap2

http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

http://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php


Primer pocket dimensions and tolerances
Pocket Type Depth Min Depth Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
Small Rifle/Pistol____0.1170 0.1230 0.1730 0.1745
Large Rifle_________0.1250 0.1320 0.2085 0.2100
Large Pistol________0.1170 0.1230 0.2085 0.2100
Primer dimensions and tolerances
Primer Type Height Min Height Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
Small Rifle/Pistol____0.1150 0.1250 0.1745 0.1765
Large Rifle ________ 0.1230 0.1330 0.2105 0.2130
Large Pistol________ 0.1150 0.1250 0.2100 0.2120

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3936874&postcount=28
Small Rifle

Cup Thickness Diameter Height
CCI 400 . .020" .1753" .109"
CCI 450 . .025" .1750" .113"
CCI BR4 .025" .1755" .109"
Federal 200 .019" .1757" .111"
Federal 205M .0225" .1744" .1075"

http://www.lasc.us/primerchart.htm

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm

[StratsMan]

My experience, FWIW...

I experimented with your scenario so I would be prepared, in case I ran out of SPM primers... The biggest problem I had was inconsistent ignition. As BK7 said, the higher pressure of a rifle cartridge requires a thicker cup for a rifle primer, so my K-frame S&W did not always ignite the rifle primer. Sometimes a second strike would ignite it, but a few just wouldn't go. I never saw pressure signs on the primer, but then I didn't expect to see any due to the thicker cup.

Your 1894 carbine will likely have a heavier strike from the firing pin. I expect you will not have the ignition problem I had with my Model 13 Smith, but I wouldn't start with a published max load, either... Use the Small Rifle primer, make certain it seats flush, but start with the minimum published load and adjust to taste.

[Menner]

I do not buy small pistol primers at all. I run small rifle primers in my pistols (that use small primers ) without problems as far as I am concerned just one less thing I have to worry about. as far as I can find out the only difference between them is srp are designed for higher pressure which makes them harder requiring a good strike from the firing pin so if you have lightened up your trigger you may have an issue with ftf but if your running a stock gun you should have no problems

[w5pv]

The only problem I have is lighter striker's don;t fire the small rifle primers, using them in revolver I haven't had any problems.

[Outpost75]

Federal 200 is what they use in their factory. 357 loads.

[357maximum]

I have run a few different SR primers in my 1894Marlin 357Cowboy and in my 357DanWesson model 15 with zero issues.....just like other have said drop back a few grains and work your way back up.....no biggie. Only issue I could see is if you had some super tuned target revolver that will not set them off...other than that...you are good to go if you have some common sense about what you are doing. I bought a buuuuuunch of REM 6.5 primers for a song and have used 3/4's of them this way.

[Gibbs44]

I stand corrected, it seems as though it's been done. I guess it's good to know in a pinch.

[fecmech]

Using CCI SR primers vs Magtech SP primers with wc820(296 speed version) I got slightly better accuracy and way better ballistics in my Rossi rifle. Ballistics are for a 10 shot string. Magtech SP/14.9 820/358429= 1662 FPS,ES-49 fps,sd-15 fps. Same load CCI SR = 1667 FPS,ES-24 FPS,SD-6 FPS. The same load with Fed SPmag primers gives 1657FPS, ES-50, SD-15. I just shot up a 1000, 50 yr old Remington SR primers a fellow gave me in my K-38 with my standard .38 loads of BE and Unique and had no misfires and the same accuracy the loads exhibit with any other primer. The only reason I tried the SR's in the first place was the first primer shortage of a few years ago when it was all I could get. I now use them for my 296/H110 loads all the time.

[singleshot]

I don't buy SP primers, only SR primers...no issues, EVER!

[FergusonTO35]

I use SR, SPM, and known to be hard lots of SP primers in my 1894C so I can save my "soft" SP primers for handguns. In particular I have received several trays of CCI SP primers that were so hard that only the 1894 would set them off. My favorite SP primers are Remington, I always get the highest and most consistent velocity with them in handguns. The 1894C doesn't care, it eats anything you feed it with good performance.

[jlucke69]

I've used them without any problems in my guns, but my friend has 2 S&W guns (Bodyguard and one older revolver with a lighter spring) that do not consistently ignite them. As stated, they have a thicker cup and may need a harder hit to ignite. I have shot them in Smith, Ruger, Kimber, Glock, Sig, Winchester, Marlin and Rossi without problems.

[Hawkeye45]

I am NOT hijacking this thread...just want to thank artful for posting that information. I am making a chart for the casting room with that info. Way too much good stuff to keep in my head.

Again thanks artful.

Mr. Ed