Primer Panic

[NVcurmudgeon]

I am a handloader of nearly fifty years standing. From time to time there have been rumors, and occasional shortages of particular brands of primers at the retail level. GCA 1968, Viet Nam, the First Gulf War, the US military converting to "green" ammunition, and shortage of police ammunition, have all fed the stories of an impending disappearance of ALL primers from civilian sales. Pardon me if I believe that these "crises" are artificial and only serve to jack up prices which NEVER go down again. Yesterday, I bought 1000 Remington 6 1/2 SR primers from a local gun store for $36.12 including tax. (I never have bought Remington primers before, but a knowledgeable friend told me that they are the cat's meow for loading my new .22 Hornet.) The dealer suggested that I buy the second 1000 of these primers he just happened to have, "Because we can't even place orders for them now." I declined this friendly and generous offer for several reasons:

1. The new Hornet is the only user of SR primers I have, so 1000 will last a while.
2. I can't afford to stockpile prmers by the jillion, and like to keep them fresh.
3. If the dealer meant he can't order Rem. primers, I'll have to change brands sometime.
4. If he meant he can't order ANY primers, then Jefferson's statement, that the beauty of the Second ammendment is that it will be needed only if they try to take it away, has come true.
5. Nine days ago I attended a gun show which contained a large ammunition and primer dealer's display with many more Winchester and Wolf primers than I could have loaded into my 1/2 ton pickup with camper shell. Then I went to the second ballroom where the same dealer had another identical display.

IMO, Chicken Little was full of poultry excrement provided by somebody in the distribution system.

During the gasoline "crisis" of 1979-1980 I was an Exxon dealer. We had daily lineups for gasoline, in which many customers filled up every day, some of them buying two or three gallons-all their tanks could hold. It was a godsend when Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown signed the odd/even buying days law into force. At that time I saw a veritable fleet of tankers waiting their turn to unload at refineries on San Francisco Bay.

Again IMO, this too will pass away, but the new higher prices won't.

[kellyj00]

www.powdervalleyinc.com seems to be an economical oddity. Their demand is increasing, as the owner has told me face-to-face, but their prices are still less than everyone elses. He also buys ridiculous quantities and runs his shop out of a massive metal building in very rural country near Winfield, KS.

The only change I've seen in his prices was primers, up about $1-$2 per 1000, maybe $5 per 5,000 if you buy quantity. He recommended I go with wolf primers for LP and SP last july, and it cost me right around $85 per 5000.

I'm not sure if the higher prices will ever go down, but I do know that artificially high prices supported by panic demand (or the 'What were we thinking?' subprime mortgages) never ever go down. There has been a massive demand for lead lately due to industrialization and war, but I've read that greater than 90% of lead used in this country is for batteries (which are very recyclable, but if you've got a third car or a boat or an RV supported under the great economic prosperity that we're seeing right now, then you're going to need more batteries than you used to.

Plain and simple, a solid economy leads to what Keynes labeled a marginal propensity to consume, basically, that you're confortable that you'll be able to find work so you buy things you wouldn't if the economy wasn't so strong which increases demand, which leads to yet higher prices... which we call inflation.

So, decrease the demand on such items as primers and the prices will not go up. There's a $ figure that all manufacturers and retailers have to meet called a break-even point on their investments and expenses, they know what this is and they also know at what point folks stop buying their product.

[Bass Ackward]

Well, the 'exact" factors behind something are of little consequense if you can't get what you want. If you are a person that a primer is a primer is a primer, then you will probably be OK. If you want to use a specific primer, then you are going to have to get them when you can, until things change.

One positive way to look at the primer shortage is that everyday that we expand our membership and get new casters into the fold, this board creates a primer adict that the currecnt system isn't prepared to handle. Casters just flat out use more primers than casual hunters / shooters.

So there you have it, the primer shortage is do to this board. :grin:

[Scrounger]

Bill, you might want to try small pistol primers in that Hornet. Some people have reported better accuracy with them.

[Mugs]

I'm a big fan of Rem. primers. I like 71/2's over 61/2's. I've used many 1000's 22 Hor, 30 Car. 357, 7SM, 7 BR. Always had good luck. It seems like when primers get short Rem's are harder to find. The price you paid seems high, the last I bought here [ Prescott AZ.] were 21.80 + tax a 1000, within the last 2 months. I use a load of 41/2 grs. 231 with 58 gr. cast in the 22 Hor. Being a fast pistol powder I tried SP primers was unable to see difference.
Mugs

[testhop]

i have never used wolf primers whats the reports on themgood bad or is it you have to use what what we can get

[Forester]

Bill, you might want to try small pistol primers in that Hornet. Some people have reported better accuracy with them.

+1 on that. A buddy of mine has a Savage in .22Hornet and uses small pistol primers on all bu his hottest loads. He gets impressive accuracy across the board with this gun and small pistol primers.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Bill, you might want to try small pistol primers in that Hornet. Some people have reported better accuracy with them.

Thanks, Scrounger. Now that I have the magic Remingtons I can compare them with Winchester SP, which are in good supply here because of my 7.62 X 25, 7.62 X 39, 9mm Parabellum, and .38 Special addictions. Fortunately the big ammo dealer at the Big Reno Gun Show always has plenty of Winchesters at the cheapest prices around.

[Scrounger]

Remington 7-1/2s are in good supply, too, at least here; I have 25 to 30 thousand in my stash...

That dealer, located somewhere in NorCal, does gunshows all over California and Nevada and who knows where else. They're huge...

[kellyj00]

in response to the post about the value of wolf primers....
I started using them in July, so for about 6 months. Shot thousands of them so far in LP and SP, I have had no issues... they simply do what they are supposed to.

However, they are brass...not nickle colored. So if you don't care for the brass color, you're probably better off with CCI, who recently redesigned their box and added a few bucks to the cost. ;)

I haven't gotten any wolf LR or SR primers yet to test.

[Ken O]

I use the Wolf LR primers in my Long range and Palma rifles, they are excelent.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I use the Wolf LR primers in my Long range and Palma rifles, they are excelent.

Ken, where are the Wolf prmers made? Also, do they behave themselves with regard to pressure and velocity-no surprses?

[klw]

Wasn't the last primer scare in 92? I remember "friends" offering to sell me primers at, I think, $50 a thousand. Friends like that I don't need.

But I did learn to buy ahead. Ever since when I could afford it I bought primers, powder, cartridge cases and bullet alloy. I've got a lifetime supply of primers (literally) that I paid $10 a thousand for. At the time it seemed a bit foolish. Today it does not.

[fishhawk]

wolf primers are russian made, just got 10,000 to try myself

[Ken O]

Ken, where are the Wolf prmers made? Also, do they behave themselves with regard to pressure and velocity-no surprses?

Yep, they are Russian made, they come in the same outside box as the old Russian primers, and on an industry newletter they claimed they are one in the same.
They handle pressure real well, I'm running the .308 155 SMKs for Palma matches at just under 3000 fps. I got an SD 5.8 also when I worked up this load, so I'm happy.

[armoredman]

I am always running low, but nobody near me carries primers. Got enough for a while, will have to order more later next year. I hate haz-mat charges.

[smokemjoe]

How much are the Russian primer per 1000, Thanks

[Ken O]

How much are the Russian primer per 1000, Thanks

The best way is to get a group buy going. Powder Valley an some others will mix powders and primers under one HazMat. Here is a link to get an idea of prices:
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

[fishhawk]

19 bucks per thou. at widners and 17.90 per thou. in 5000 lots

[Sam]

AM,
Take a run up to Brunos in PHX. It'll be worth your time.

http://www.brunoshooters.com/

Sam

[EDK]

Grafs in Mexico MO has Wolf primers. The wife visits her sister and goes right past. If I've been a good boy, she'll stop and get my list of things. The primers were about $95; other brands $115 and up....last I looked.

:Fire: :castmine: