Primer Panic

[NVcurmudgeon]

I am a handloader of nearly fifty years standing. From time to time there have been rumors, and occasional shortages of particular brands of primers at the retail level. GCA 1968, Viet Nam, the First Gulf War, the US military converting to "green" ammunition, and shortage of police ammunition, have all fed the stories of an impending disappearance of ALL primers from civilian sales. Pardon me if I believe that these "crises" are artificial and only serve to jack up prices which NEVER go down again. Yesterday, I bought 1000 Remington 6 1/2 SR primers from a local gun store for $36.12 including tax. (I never have bought Remington primers before, but a knowledgeable friend told me that they are the cat's meow for loading my new .22 Hornet.) The dealer suggested that I buy the second 1000 of these primers he just happened to have, "Because we can't even place orders for them now." I declined this friendly and generous offer for several reasons:

1. The new Hornet is the only user of SR primers I have, so 1000 will last a while.
2. I can't afford to stockpile prmers by the jillion, and like to keep them fresh.
3. If the dealer meant he can't order Rem. primers, I'll have to change brands sometime.
4. If he meant he can't order ANY primers, then Jefferson's statement, that the beauty of the Second ammendment is that it will be needed only if they try to take it away, has come true.
5. Nine days ago I attended a gun show which contained a large ammunition and primer dealer's display with many more Winchester and Wolf primers than I could have loaded into my 1/2 ton pickup with camper shell. Then I went to the second ballroom where the same dealer had another identical display.

IMO, Chicken Little was full of poultry excrement provided by somebody in the distribution system.

During the gasoline "crisis" of 1979-1980 I was an Exxon dealer. We had daily lineups for gasoline, in which many customers filled up every day, some of them buying two or three gallons-all their tanks could hold. It was a godsend when Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown signed the odd/even buying days law into force. At that time I saw a veritable fleet of tankers waiting their turn to unload at refineries on San Francisco Bay.

Again IMO, this too will pass away, but the new higher prices won't.

[Blammer]

true, on the prices.

so I guess you could get them while you can at the "good" price....

[PatMarlin]

Last time I was at the Reno show Bill, I picked up serveral boxes of Winchester primers at $6 each and that wasn't all that long ago.

I'm scared to ask what they are now.. :mrgreen:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Last time I was at the Reno show Bill, I picked up serveral boxes of Winchester primers at $6 each and that wasn't all that long ago.

I'm scared to ask what they are now.. :mrgreen:

$2!.00 +/- time flies when you're having fun!

[Dale53]

NVcurmudgeon;
You might also try Small Pistol primers in your Hornet. I have had them give better accuracy than Small Rifle primers on more than one occasion (in the Hornet).

I recently laid in a supply of primers (Federal Small and Large pistol) for $20.00 per 1000 or so. I got mine from Powder Valley online.

Dale53

[PatMarlin]

Isn't the ceiling on using a pistol primer used in a rifle cart about 45,000 psi? Something about the thin metal being pierced beyond that?

[felix]

All bets are off, Pat. They, whoever they are, have been modifying the primer cups for military use. I have no idea what the limits are anymore, but you have to assume that the primers you get for the time being still could be from an old inventory. Federal is the company I talked to about a year ago along these lines. They, Federal, claimed the firepower portion of the primer is not going to be changed from their current specs. Who knows. We must play like the primers we get from now on are from Mars with all associated unknowns. ... felix

[PatMarlin]

Felix-

We need a comprehensive thread on this subject. I don't know what the safe parimeters are when substituting primers.

So your saying no one knows with the newly manufactured stock?

For instance-

Since most of the rifle shooting I do is low pressure, it makes sense to buy large pistol primers since I shoot mainly large caliber pistols.

But- I will be shooting a lot more .223, 22-250 etc., so I was thinking of keeping my pressures a little lower and buying small pistol primers, instead of the small rifle, then I can use them in my small cal pistols.

All this is to get more bang for my buck, and possible better accuracy with cast. Then I read a post from BA-John mentioning using a mag primer in a 35 Whelen if hunting do to the various angles of powder compared to bench shooting.

Mostly- (my young nephew's favorite word) I don't know all the ins and outs of switching primers, but would like to learn.. :drinks:

[redneckdan]

I heard the same thing from the dealer here. Can't get them till next summer, they're priced at 35ish

[felix]

Somebody, somewhere, does, Pat. I just don't know, but I did know about the 1995 run of "national" primers. The manufacturers then followed their own specs fairly closely to what has been going on in the previous years around 1960 or so. CCI was respectable enough for quite some time to indicate what line they let out on the market: a military version, and a consumer version. The IMPLICATION that I surmise is that there is not going to be a separate deal anymore because only the CUPS are changing. So, does that mean that every primer will hold 65K CUP from now on, whenever now is? So, does that mean now it will take a sledge hammer to fire them? Sure hope not. Just think of the fine tuned pistols out there and how worthless their exquisite tuning is now. ... felix

[felix]

Primers are to be treated like any other component, then and now. Primers had been rated by users like us on the amount of force and heat delivered for each flavor. Long cases can tolerate high force primers, magnum or otherwise. All cases can tolerate high heat primers. The Winchester magnum rifle was the strongest in force of any primer by at least 20 percent. The Federal line of primers were the easiest to ignite, and provided the most heat, but not by a large margin. The remington primers in general were exactly in between force and heat. That is all that I can actually generalize for real. So, that means nothing really, and that you have to try different primers, but only when FINE tuning the load for a particular purpose. ... felix

[TooManyMisses]

To NVcurmudgeon, I have loaded for the Hornet for a number of years and tried something that I read by possibly Ross Seifreid about using pistol primers because of the small amount of powder involved. I also neck size as I only have 1 rifle (Anschutz) chambered for the Hornet and the old Hollywood dies make a very accurate combination with 40 grain ballistic tips. Want to try casting for it one of these days but haven't acquired a mould yet.

[oneokie]

FWIW, Graf's sent out a sales flyer that has CCI and Winchester primers listed.

At the Oct. Tulsa show, picked up some CCI 34 and 42 for $17.50 K, Win primers for $22.50 K.
At the local dealer, Win primers are $3.95 a hundred + tax.

[dale2242]

If memory serves, Speer recommends small pistol primers in the Hornet with their 33 gr TNT bullet. They say they got more consistent velocity and better accuracy with them than small rifle primers.

[Ken O]

Something that is real crazy...go to any big box store and see what they are getting for the common 209 shotshell primers in the muzzleloader section for the in-lines. $5 and $6 a hundred! Thats $50-$60 a thou! It wasn't that long ago I paid that for a sleeve (5000).