Ducth Oven for Melting Lead?

[terryt]

Hi:

I was going to buy a Dutch Oven for melting lead when a friend told he had read that they can crack when heated that hot.

Does anyone know about this?

Thanks,

Terryt

[tazman]

Cast pots usually only crack when cooled too quickly. The 600-700 degrees needed to melt lead shouldn't effect it. Just let it cool slowly.

[Animal]

I just finished casting about 2500 boolits in my dutch oven. I don't see an issue.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If this was true then every plumbers furnace used to melt lead would be useless/broken and in the trash.

I just happen to use a plumbers furnace "pot" to smelt my lead, which is real close to a Dutch oven but for not having a lid.

The statement above comes under the heading of "hearsay," which is short for "unsubstantiated rumor."

Reject it utterly!

Randy

[imashooter2]

It is true that cheap imported cast iron Dutch ovens are very thin and can crack easily at elevated temperatures. This usually happens either the first time the pot sees fire, or when someone gets a little aggressive hitting the pot with their ladle or skimming spoon.

I have personally used 2 of the Harbor Freight 12 inch ovens. The first one cracked in seconds the first time I put it on my turkey fryer. The replacement has melted over 2 tons and is still going strong.

[bangerjim]

Buy expensive....buy quality.......CI will last al long, long time. Just do NOT change temp rapidly with water!!!!!!!!!

bangerjim

[Cadillo]

I've used mine (I now have and use three (3) of them) for a number of years. Best bang for your buck. I bought mine at the Academy sporting goods store for pretty cheap.

[uscra112]

I know that breaking an iron casting from the sand too soon leaves residual stress in the casting due to uneven cooling. Would be typical of Chinese producers to cut that corner. Buy cheap, buy twice.

[jmort]

Cast iron pots can crack. They make for good smelting pots, but steel is better. Steel will not crack.

[WilliamDahl]

Dutch ovens work good for smelting the lead as long as you are not doing more than a 5g bucket or so at a time. If you are going to do more than that, get an old 20-lb propane tank and cut the top out of it to make a smelting pot. If you are wanting a casting pot instead of a smelting pot, I would suggest something taller and with less of a diameter to minimize the surface oxidation of your pool of lead. Besides, even a small dutch oven is a bit too much unless you are casting artillery projectiles. :)

[MBTcustom]

Cast iron can crack. If it does you are going to sprout wings like tinkerbell and fly to get away from the molten river flowing around your feet.
I smelt in a steel pot that is nothing more than a piece of pipe with a bottom welded on it, and two handles made of rebar. I can do 175lb of lead at once, and I am so glad that I don't have to worry about dumping that much alloy all over my driveway!

PS, to the OP: Quack quack. LOL!

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I use a cast iron dutch oven from China for quite a few years. If you use an old cast iron dutch oven, look to see what brand it is. Some of the old ones can bring a pretty penny now-a-days and cook food great!

[dverna]

I love a definitive answer.....

They never crack
Sometimes they crack

Almost any set up can cause a "molten river flowing around your feet". Stuff happens. So whatever you use, it is good idea to know you have an escape plan should the worst happen.

I have to agree though that steel seems a wiser selection.

Don Verna

[WilliamDahl]

Are you wanting it for a smelting pot or a casting pot? If it is for a casting pot for casting bullets directly from, a dutch oven is probably too large. I suspect that most people cast from a 20 lb or small pot of lead. Even a small 4-qt dutch oven will hold around 94 lbs of lead if filled all the way up. That's a bit excessive in my opinion for just casting bullets and perhaps somewhat minimal if you are smelting wheelweights down into lead ingots.

[terryt]

Hi:

I want a pot for smelting. I should of said that in the first place.
Thanks for all the info.

Terryt

[plainsman456]

It should work,just let it cool by itself,no help in the form of water.

And don't bang on it like a drum set.Should last a long time.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I'm no expert, unlike some...

That said, I bought a Turkey Cooker set up at Cabela's six years ago for $49.95 during their 1/2 off post-Christmas Sale.

It has smelted/alloyed over ten tons of metal since then. On at least three separate occasions the run was over 800lbs in the course of a day. When I am done, I just shut the propane tank off, empty it, and let it cool down on its' own.

I have heard, the most durable would be about an eight inch deep pot made of 12" steel well casing. A friend is a welder, and he told me he could make one just like his for about $125, plus the stand, plus the hose and regulator. I think I am good to go with what I have now.

Some people think too hard...

[WilliamDahl]

I'm no expert, unlike some...

That said, I bought a Turkey Cooker set up at Cabela's six years ago for $49.95 during their 1/2 off post-Christmas Sale.

It has smelted/alloyed over ten tons of metal since then. On at least three separate occasions the run was over 800lbs in the course of a day. When I am done, I just shut the propane tank off, empty it, and let it cool down on its' own.

I have heard, the most durable would be about an eight inch deep pot made of 12" steel well casing. A friend is a welder, and he told me he could make one just like his for about $125, plus the stand, plus the hose and regulator. I think I am good to go with what I have now.

Some people think too hard...

Most of the turkey cookers that I've seen have had aluminum pots with them. Most people recommend against smelting lead in aluminum pots since it's melting point is 1221F and lead's is 621F. I have seen aluminum melted with just a propane flame before and it gets significantly weaker prior to getting to the melting point.

[North_of_60]

Wall-Mart sells a cheap stainless steel stock pot. I think the one I bought was a 6 qt for about $8.00, they also have a larger on for a few dollars more.

Al

[Squeeze]

Ive been using about a 6 qt dutch oven for prob at least 20 years love it, sits on a cajun cooker.

[rnelson11]

I've used mine (I now have and use three (3) of them) for a number of years. Best bang for your buck. I bought mine at the Academy sporting goods store for pretty cheap.

What he said.

[762 shooter]

Seems a shame to use a quality cast iron dutch oven to melt lead. They create such nice biscuits and pies.

I use a heavy duty steel pot.

762

[alamogunr]

I've got two cast iron dutch ovens, bought before they started coming from China. Never thought about trying to hasten cooling when finished cleaning up WW. Too much other clean up to worry about hurrying the cool down.

If I had a lot of WW to clean, I used a large pot fabricated from a 12" steel pipe with a 1/2" steel bottom. All this stuff is now stored at a farm a friend owns. His son may want it some day. My sons are not interested.

[Usmc1968]

Good thread :-) I just bought a CI dutch oven from Tractor supply for $10 to do what the OP wants to do (I think). I want to use it to mix/flux my alloys then pour it into my Lyman ingot mould. From there I would use the ingots of ready alloy in my Lyman Big Dipper for bullet casting. I have not tried it yet but will follow advice of letting it cool by itself.

Semper Fi

[trixter]

I bought a dutch oven and used it quite a bit for smelting range lead. Then I had a welder friend of mine cut a propane tank in half for me. Both work very well, but I prefer the cut tank because of the round bottom and the ease of getting almost all of the melt out of it easily.

[Beetmagnet]

Let me add some info here. When heated a Dutch oven can crack easily if any external striking pressure is applied to the oven. One example of this would be smacking a metal skimming spoon on the side if the oven. Don't ask me how I now this...just know that I know it. Never smack a hot Dutch oven filled with lead with anything stronger than a wet cigarette butt.

[jonp]

Most of the turkey cookers that I've seen have had aluminum pots with them. Most people recommend against smelting lead in aluminum pots since it's melting point is 1221F and lead's is 621F. I have seen aluminum melted with just a propane flame before and it gets significantly weaker prior to getting to the melting point.
Can you explain what you mean? If the al melting point is roughly twice that of lead how is that dangerous unless you run it dry over the heat?

[h8dirt]

I use a heavy cast iron dutch oven for smelting and casting ingots. No problem so far.

[imashooter2]

Can you explain what you mean? If the al melting point is roughly twice that of lead how is that dangerous unless you run it dry over the heat?

It doesn't melt, but it gets very weak at the temperatures involved in smelting. It can bulge, sag, collapse or even burst. This is generally regarded as a "bad thing."

[DLCTEX]

Aluminum can fatigue with repeated use. A few minutes inattention can let the melted lead reach 900-1000 degrees and more. 50-100 lbs. of molten lead can ruin you day, or life. Don't risk it.

[dudel]

Mine has been working fine. Cheap import that it is. A work of caution. I don't care where the cast iron was made, it's not a great idea to beat on a pot containing several quarts of molten lead regardless of where it was made. Beat the slag spoon against the slag container (not the melt pot); why would you want to knock slag back into the melt you're trying to clean? Nor to cool the pot when you're done by dunking it in a tub of water. Nor to dump cold WW into the melt (use a spoon).

A bit of caution when dealing with quantities of molten metal pays off in many ways.

All that said, I'd still looking to get one of Mr. Crockett's steel pots when I get off of my duff.

[dudel]

It doesn't melt, but it gets very weak at the temperatures involved in smelting. It can bulge, sag, collapse or even burst. This is generally regarded as a "bad thing."


+1 My first pot was the aluminum one that came with the turkey fryer. First time smelting, and I wanted to get started. When I was done and the pot cooled off, I noticed the bottom of the pot had sagged to match the grating on the fryer! I thanked my guardian angel, and never used that pot again. Smashed it with a small sledge to make sure no one else would either, then threw it away.

YMMV, you may get a thicker aluminum pot; you may also get a thinner one.

[jmort]

I got two from DCrockett and have a couple tanks from scrap yard to do my own. I heard he stopped selling them but hope that is not true. Possible, closed for winter. Regardless, a cut propane tank has many advantages especially the round bottom.

[fattires]

I've been using a cast iron Dutch oven I got at the flea market for $5. Been working well for smelting my wheel weights.

[jgt]

My big concern is for the future. My hope is that each person that uses a dutch oven or cast iron skillet to melt lead in will permenently mark them with a skull and cross bones. That way thirty years from now some unsuspecting person will not be buying it from e-bay to cook biscuits in.

[jonp]

Lead will seep into the cast iron because it is porus(sp) but will it do so to stainless steel?

I would not think so

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, i love my old dutch oven for smelting ingots from range scrap... And with the lid on, i dont have to worry about the poping and tinsel fairys flying around.... A very safe method as the lids are heavy... Even once had a live round get mixed in, and was completely contained due to the cast lid.... It was a 22 rimfire, but still could have gotten a visit from the dreaded tinsel fairy....

AG

[WilliamDahl]

Can you explain what you mean? If the al melting point is roughly twice that of lead how is that dangerous unless you run it dry over the heat?

First of all, it's not TWICE. To use terms like that, you need to use a temperature scale based on an absolute zero (e.g. Rankine or Kelvin). Since I quoted in Fahrenheit, let's go with Rankine then.

R = F + 460

Thus 621F = 1081R and 1221F = 1681R.

As such, if you are operating at 621F (1081R), you are at 88.5% of the melting point of Aluminum (1221F / 1681R).

It loses it's structural strength as it gets hotter and the weight of a pot full of lead might just be enough have it structurally fail and make your life miserable.



Strength

Aluminium alloys commonly have tensile strengths of between 70 and 700 MPa. The range for alloys used in extrusion is 150 – 300 MPa. Unlike most steel grades, aluminium does not become brittle at low temperatures. Instead, its strength increases. At high temperatures, aluminium’s strength decreases. At temperatures continuously above 100°C, strength is affected to the extent that the weakening must be taken into account.


http://www.burnsstainless.com/images/technology/YieldStrength-1.gif

[jonp]

Uh..no. a different scale has different gradiants. 621f + 621f = 1242f. 1221f Al so roughly twice that of lead on F scale.
This is besides the point. Your last paragraph answered the question I had. The hotter it gets the more elastic and the weight of the lead will deform it to the point of failure.
That's an interesting graph. I'm surprised at the rapid failure of Al. Thanks

[Harter66]

I have dropped the bottom out of an AL pot that seemed to be pretty heavy and before I'd read all the warnings. Not worth it, thankfully it was ''just''10#.

A year or so ago I damaged a ''good'' Dutch Oven w/a live round of presumed sorted clear lead. That resulted in something like 70# of lead on the driveway. That said,just a week ago I found a replacement for it. It is smaller but much heavier pot , I trust the CI pots as much as any ,and I think the CI controls the temp better than steel . That's probably subjective like the CI ''feeling'' safer.
I did cast from a 2qt CI pot for a couple of yr. I would offer that it is tempting to use the largest pot you can get to do your smelting and cleaning in be mindful of how much weight you are putting in your pot and how much your heat source will carry.

[WilliamDahl]

I did cast from a 2qt CI pot for a couple of yr. I would offer that it is tempting to use the largest pot you can get to do your smelting and cleaning in be mindful of how much weight you are putting in your pot and how much your heat source will carry.

And how much weight the stand for your pot can handle and how stable it might be.

Each quart of lead will weigh approximately 23.7 lbs.