Frame Battering

[CT Kid]

Recently I found that I had overcharged some reloads (45 ACP) with Tightgroup.
Max was 4.8 grains and I loaded 5.6.

I was told to look at the "dust cover" the area just forward of the slide release and where the recoil spring plug rests against the frame.

I have two 45's one is a Pointman 7 (CZ) stainless full size.
The other is a Kimber Ultra Carry II with the aluminum frame.
Now this is the first time I loaded heavy, mostly I load light.
Both guns have thousands of rounds fired through them all from the same pool of factory loads and assorted reloads.

You would think that the aluminum frame would show some signs of wear or battering being soft. When I examined both frames the full size SS Pointman showed signs of battering. The Kimber looks like new!

I clean after every practice, I had noticed marks on my Pointman 7 on the spring plug and the dust cover before but thought that was normal wear & tear. This gun was brand new and only shot by me, the Kimber was used.

Anybody else notice this? Could it just be the design of the pistols where the Kimber can take a heavier load or maybe the spring plug just doesn't hammer against the frame on the Kimber.

I noticed that in the P7 design the sping plug (looks more like a plate) rests against the frame where it will make contact while the Kimber seems to have clearance.

Any thoughts?

[shotstring]

It could be the difference in the weight of the slides. More weight coming back equals more battering. This is also common among the "shorty" 45s that don't have a solid working dual spring mechanism installed. A slide traveling a shorter distance will also cause battering. I once destroyed the slide of my favorite custom shortened 45 due to this, even with a double spring set installed. I have found it is better to back off on my load a bit for everyday practice and just use the hot loads as defense loads if I feel I have to have the extra velocity.

[Shiloh]

Fortunately you or someone else was not injured buy a diet of hot loads in your .45. You got a low cost education!!

Shiloh

[GSM]

CT Kid:

You might also look at the recoil spring - there are a lot of different pound ratings. Over time, the spring can take a "set" and not be as effective as a new one.

Depending on the guns' intended use, you could also look at shok-bufs. Wilson makes some and there is another brand that is supposed to be better. Possible rub is that the buff may let go (disintegrate) at the worst possible time.

[BD]

Assuming "normal" loadings, the biggest cause of frame battering in a 1911 is worn out springs. Different designs use different spring set ups which have differing lifespans: typical 5" government model = 3,000 to 5,000 rounds between recoil spring replacement; 4" bull barrel "commander" type kimber= 800 rounds between replacement, and when they go they're gone; 3" ultra carry with the "spring within a spring" recoil assembly= 2,000 rounds between replacements.

Put a new spring in and watch were your brass goes with your "normal" loads. When that same load starts throwing your brass an extra 6 feet, it's time for a new spring. Shock buffs work great for practice in 5" guns, but not at all in most 3" or 4' guns. A shock buff that disintigrates unusually fast is another sign that it's time for a new spring. Just take the buffs out of any gun you count on as they will tie up the gun when they fall apart.

BD

[CT Kid]

Most of my loads were normal or on the low power side. I found that the lug on my full size 45 bushing had a gouge taken out of it and a corresponding chunk taken out of my slide. This happened after about 30 rounds.

I guess the springs on both need replacing as I have run about 3000 rounds through each in the last 12 months.

I am a bit dismayed by the damage but have learned a lot.

Thanks for all who replied, there sure is a lot of knowledge out there!

[Lloyd Smale]

some guys shake there heads at me but my 1911s all get new springs every 1000 rounds. there guns i rely on to protect me and my family or to compete with and im not going to save a few pennys to keep them up.

[Ricochet]

What strength spring would you recommend for a standard length 1911 that mostly shoots hardball or equivalent, sometimes a little hotter (up to the loading book max of a 230 grain at ~960 FPS), and never anything lighter than hardball? It flings cases pretty far with these loads and the (pretty well used) stock spring.

[felix]

Isn't 6 feet ejection about right? At about 4 o'clock? 18 pound springs do that for the combat load(s)? I shoot a 1911 about 50 rounds every year or so. With that personal qualification which is nill, these comments should be over-ridden pronto and emphatically when not in the ball park. Bullseye guns I shot years ago, but I had zero, zilch, nada say-so, or inclination to say anything as long as I could score 275 or better with that gun. The load was 3.5BE with the H&G 200 grainer. These guns and ammo Pat and I shot belonged to the "club". ... felix

[GSM]

6' @ 4:00 with 18# is on target for BALL rounds IF you are using iron sights. Things will change a bit if you start mounting optics to the slide.

[BD]

Six feet is just about right for a 5" gun, it's the "extra six feet" that indicate the need for a new spring. I use an 18 lb spring for all ball and equivalent loads, and the "standard" 16 lb spring for my match gun which pretty much gets only 200 grainers at 850 fps to just make major. I keep a 20 lb spring in the 4" gun which is standard for the 4" Kimber and will handle Ranger RT +P in limited amounts just fine.
BD

[Ricochet]

Sounds like I need an 18 pounder. Thanks!

[Dale53]

I don't care for arbitrary "standards" of spring use. Some springs fail earlier than others. However, there IS a way --- When your chosen spring is new, "weigh" it while in the pistol. Yeah, I said weigh it in the pistol:

Go to your local plumbing supply or hardware store and buy a PVC pipe connector of the appropriate size. What you are looking for is a size that will allow you to place on a kitchen scale, then put the muzzle of an UNLOADED and CHECKED 1911 on the pipe so that the barrel goes inside. Push down the pistol, which will retract the slide with the barrel in the pipe connector. Stop "just" short of full retraction. Observe the weight indicated. Do it two or three times to make sure you have this down pat. Record that weight. Then every 500 shots, or so, weigh the spring. If you start with an 18 lb spring, when it reads 16 lb (it WILL sag) then replace it. This way, you will not be throwing a good, proven spring away before it's time. But, you WILL discover a weak spring so you can replace it when it gives signs of failing.
Dale53